Baileyhoss
Well-Known Member
Anyone there? - did you survive fence 3?
Area 22 Horse Trials at Knock.
- Thread starter Baileyhoss
- Start date
Noodlejaffa
Well-Known Member
Oh, I had a friend viewing and she mentioned Fence 3. What was it like?!
Pep12
Well-Known Member
Yup and yup survived. A fair few of my club did, was chuffed for them all. Course actually rode really nicely once you got going. Fence was fine it was just the situation of it caught out any horses prone to a bit of a nap as was leaving out of first field and was a lot bigger than the 2 prior to it and possibly a bit beefy so close to start. Coming up to it there was a lot for the horse to look at on other side and I think they had to really trust their rider to take the plunge and/or be a xc nutter!!! Were you there?? There were a few duns going about.
Baileyhoss
Well-Known Member
Cool - Well done. I did too. One stop at the roll before the water, just bowled on a bit quick and didn't check early enough to push on at it. B thought I was asking him to jump into the water. But he whipped round and popped it lovely second time. After the carnage that appeared to be going on. I was just delighted to get round.
I have NEVER seen so many E's on one scoreboard. Only 2 teams of the adult novice actually managed to complete (both from Moray by the way
(although not my team
)
and even then, they scraped in with 3 completions, both their 4ths were E'd. I think I counted about 40 runners and only 17 completed the course. I have a photo of the scoreboard on my phone, so I'll double check that later.
Fence 3 was a fairly innocous looking hedge type affair. but as pep says, it came as a bit of a shock after one and 2 being quite little. and it was heading away from the lorry park jumping out of an open field into a slightly wooded area, a water jump (with a step option) came very quickly after it so as you approached, you couldn't see much at all on the other side, just glimpse flags.
The questions were all early on in the course. 3 was THE hedge only about 3-4 strides to fence 4 which was steps or water optional, ,5 & 6 was sunken road and big drop, 7 was ditch, ,8 was steps down, ,9 was water, roll with one stride to splash to step up onto island to step off island to splash out -
so the questions were all very early so a lot of horses hadn't quite got into a rythm,
I actually really really enjoyed the round. The course rode brilliantly (bar a couple of quite stony sections).
I have NEVER seen so many E's on one scoreboard. Only 2 teams of the adult novice actually managed to complete (both from Moray by the way
and even then, they scraped in with 3 completions, both their 4ths were E'd. I think I counted about 40 runners and only 17 completed the course. I have a photo of the scoreboard on my phone, so I'll double check that later.
Fence 3 was a fairly innocous looking hedge type affair. but as pep says, it came as a bit of a shock after one and 2 being quite little. and it was heading away from the lorry park jumping out of an open field into a slightly wooded area, a water jump (with a step option) came very quickly after it so as you approached, you couldn't see much at all on the other side, just glimpse flags.
The questions were all early on in the course. 3 was THE hedge only about 3-4 strides to fence 4 which was steps or water optional, ,5 & 6 was sunken road and big drop, 7 was ditch, ,8 was steps down, ,9 was water, roll with one stride to splash to step up onto island to step off island to splash out -
so the questions were all very early so a lot of horses hadn't quite got into a rythm,
I actually really really enjoyed the round. The course rode brilliantly (bar a couple of quite stony sections).
dionne_r
Well-Known Member
I was at knock doing the intermediate, thought the course was a bit strange, didn't really think you could get going. Was clear xc but then again my pony is a bit wild!!
Britestar
Well-Known Member
What Pep said
Actually Findon were the other team that managed to get a score.
Only 2 Inter teams got 3 scores on the board as well.
No idea what happened in the Open.
Actually Findon were the other team that managed to get a score.
Only 2 Inter teams got 3 scores on the board as well.
No idea what happened in the Open.
muffinthemule
Well-Known Member
I was in the intermediate, got round and got placed...despite being 1min 20 over the time and having 2 technical refusals- that is total madness!
As much as I enjoyed my day and the organisation was super, I'm not sure a XC course like that is really in keeping with the idea of "riding club" - as in grass roots riders. I say this as I think it was very "trappy" - i.e. it was a course that encouraged refusals I feel which was a shame when amateur riders have travelled a long way to be there.
My horse is relatively inexperienced and I felt he was thinking very "backwards" after the ditch-steps-ditch-water combo all so close together and tricky. At least at BE you tend to get a more inviting, bold track which isn't trying to catch you out. Just my opinion tho!!
Maybe I'm being too soft and RC SHOULD be tricky?!
As much as I enjoyed my day and the organisation was super, I'm not sure a XC course like that is really in keeping with the idea of "riding club" - as in grass roots riders. I say this as I think it was very "trappy" - i.e. it was a course that encouraged refusals I feel which was a shame when amateur riders have travelled a long way to be there.
My horse is relatively inexperienced and I felt he was thinking very "backwards" after the ditch-steps-ditch-water combo all so close together and tricky. At least at BE you tend to get a more inviting, bold track which isn't trying to catch you out. Just my opinion tho!!
Maybe I'm being too soft and RC SHOULD be tricky?!
Baileyhoss
Well-Known Member
IMO - that was more challenging than the intros I have done (although that's not many)
I think riding club, or ours anyway do tend to throw in things that will 'weed out the wimps'. things that you certainly wouldn't find at the same level BE.
My horse napped enroute to fence 1, argued about turning left away from the working in arena. I think a hot arse that early on asserted the fact that I was the boss today, so fortunately by the time 3 came he was listening and behaving.
I think riding club, or ours anyway do tend to throw in things that will 'weed out the wimps'. things that you certainly wouldn't find at the same level BE.
My horse napped enroute to fence 1, argued about turning left away from the working in arena. I think a hot arse that early on asserted the fact that I was the boss today, so fortunately by the time 3 came he was listening and behaving.
muffinthemule
Well-Known Member
I agree, up this way we do seem to go for it when building XC tracks at RC!!
The funny thing is that the one time I actually went down to the champs in England, we were shocked as the XC was tiny! So much smaller than what we had qualified over. It was novice mind and maybe things are different now.
Oh well, I had a good day personally but agree with you guys - have never seen such carnage on a course!
The funny thing is that the one time I actually went down to the champs in England, we were shocked as the XC was tiny! So much smaller than what we had qualified over. It was novice mind and maybe things are different now.
Oh well, I had a good day personally but agree with you guys - have never seen such carnage on a course!
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
I was there, competing in the open. I was also shocked to see the board so full of E's, but TBH I feel riders need to raise their game. I walked the course whilst the novices were going round and I was surprised to see so many baby-horses going round and clearly very novice riders trotting round gently. This is a qualifier for the champs therefore I believe it needs to be quite a strong course, IMO I think the problem was that Knock has always been known as quite an easy course so clubs entered riders who perhaps weren't quite up to it and it was a shock to see the course had been upgraded.
What I was most shocked about were the number of novices who didnt seem to know how to ride a XC course - I watched 3 people jump a jump which wasnt even in the course (it wasnt used at all that day - the caterpillar fence after the log after the second water), I assume they were E'd for that error. And I also saw another 2 doing a black flag route but crossing their tracks!
I think overall the course was fine. I didnt think it encouraged refusals by any means. I simply think a lot of people were out of their depth.
My open course was straightforward - I didnt think it was very technical at all, just nice straight forward fences. I was terrified of the very wide open ditch however it jumped well. I cocked up my round 3 from home over the narrow well fence - I was trying hard to get the time and came in far too sharp to it so horse ran past it
Totally my fault, came round and popped it great. Im still angry with myself today! I would have won had I not had that silly silly stop. Our team won, but then there wasn't any other competition which I find really crazy!
muffinthemule - I've also been to the champs and although I found the novice easy, when I did the open a couple of years later I thought it was pretty technical - Id say definately on par if not slightly harder than most BE novices.
What I was most shocked about were the number of novices who didnt seem to know how to ride a XC course - I watched 3 people jump a jump which wasnt even in the course (it wasnt used at all that day - the caterpillar fence after the log after the second water), I assume they were E'd for that error. And I also saw another 2 doing a black flag route but crossing their tracks!
I think overall the course was fine. I didnt think it encouraged refusals by any means. I simply think a lot of people were out of their depth.
My open course was straightforward - I didnt think it was very technical at all, just nice straight forward fences. I was terrified of the very wide open ditch however it jumped well. I cocked up my round 3 from home over the narrow well fence - I was trying hard to get the time and came in far too sharp to it so horse ran past it
muffinthemule - I've also been to the champs and although I found the novice easy, when I did the open a couple of years later I thought it was pretty technical - Id say definately on par if not slightly harder than most BE novices.
Britestar
Well-Known Member
Re the jump that some jumped that was not flagged. They were not eliminated, it wasn;t flagged, so was a hazard. To go around it would have severly impeeded the flow of the course.
In the same way, the ditch after the barrel on top of the hill had the flags removed for the Inter, so that they could go straight over it without penalty, rather the dive to the right to go thru the water splash.
If you cant take 'babies' round a 2'9" track, then where do they get their experience?
I think the point the others are making, is that a course that eliminates more than 50% of the runners, must be a reflection on the track rather than the riders.
In the same way, the ditch after the barrel on top of the hill had the flags removed for the Inter, so that they could go straight over it without penalty, rather the dive to the right to go thru the water splash.
If you cant take 'babies' round a 2'9" track, then where do they get their experience?
I think the point the others are making, is that a course that eliminates more than 50% of the runners, must be a reflection on the track rather than the riders.
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
I dont think you can jump a non-flagged course at BE? I thought that was immediate elimination?
Experience-wise, yes RC is exactly for this however I dont think the qualifiers for the champs would be the place for this. There are plenty of other RC ODE's over the season for youngsters to gain experience. The qualifiers surely are meant to be the hardest you can get at RC level?
I personally really liked the new course and think its a huge improvement. I dont know if I would blame the track for so many eliminations TBH. I simply think people assumed Knock was going to be the same old Knock course (which IMO used to be the easiest RC track in the area).
Experience-wise, yes RC is exactly for this however I dont think the qualifiers for the champs would be the place for this. There are plenty of other RC ODE's over the season for youngsters to gain experience. The qualifiers surely are meant to be the hardest you can get at RC level?
I personally really liked the new course and think its a huge improvement. I dont know if I would blame the track for so many eliminations TBH. I simply think people assumed Knock was going to be the same old Knock course (which IMO used to be the easiest RC track in the area).
Noodlejaffa
Well-Known Member
Hmm, sounds like our Area qualifier last year which was held over the BE Intro course at Eglinton (which is stiff for an Intro course).
Our team was the only one to come back with all four riders (think there were 15 teams in total) and the number of eliminations was phenomenal. The standard of riding was not great, but I thought it was tough for riders who hadn't BEd (all our team had).
This year it's being run over an unaffiliated course and I'm dreading it!
Re baby horses at one day events - down our way, we are lucky to get more than two unaff ODEs a year (and that's with driving a couple of hours to get there). Quite frankly, given these unaff events costs approx £40 to enter, and you're not guaranteed a 'safe' course, most of us tend to stick to BE.
I don't honestly know what the solution is as not everyone wants to BE, but I think there has to be something done to raise the standard of riding at RC level.
Our team was the only one to come back with all four riders (think there were 15 teams in total) and the number of eliminations was phenomenal. The standard of riding was not great, but I thought it was tough for riders who hadn't BEd (all our team had).
This year it's being run over an unaffiliated course and I'm dreading it!
Re baby horses at one day events - down our way, we are lucky to get more than two unaff ODEs a year (and that's with driving a couple of hours to get there). Quite frankly, given these unaff events costs approx £40 to enter, and you're not guaranteed a 'safe' course, most of us tend to stick to BE.
I don't honestly know what the solution is as not everyone wants to BE, but I think there has to be something done to raise the standard of riding at RC level.
Pep12
Well-Known Member
Agree with B star
, it was just a hazard so no E for that one. You could have done yourself and/or your horse a mischief trying to avoid it. Also the crossing tracks thing not an issue at the black flags either, as they were single fences not a combination. Check BE fence judge hand book. Not as boffin as I sound just fence judged a fair few times
. Glad to hear that you did well. Good luck at the champs
.
sp33dy
Well-Known Member
I wasn't there but my friend was there taking photos for his new website,
http://www.ivejumpedthat.com/pictures.php?location=Knock,%20Huntly&organiser=British%20Riding%20Clubs&level=Novice
http://www.ivejumpedthat.com/pictures.php?location=Knock,%20Huntly&organiser=British%20Riding%20Clubs&level=Novice
Noodlejaffa
Well-Known Member
What a fabulous name for a website!!!
spookypony
Well-Known Member
I was there, writing for a dressage judge. I walked the course afterwards, and saw a lot of eliminations at the big drop after the sunken road. If you got past that, the rest seemed to flow really nicely for most people.
I was a bit concerned about the number of fat horses I saw, TBH.
I was a bit concerned about the number of fat horses I saw, TBH.
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Pep - Weird, I was always taught from PC level never to jump anything not flagged for my class and never to cross my tracks even if doing an "L" or black flag route.
Great link Sp33dy - never knew that website exsisted, very useful!
Great link Sp33dy - never knew that website exsisted, very useful!
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Just looked at the piccies, I am the first person to say that I think BRC novice should be catering for those who aren't doing BE.
However I think having looked at the piccies it looks like a nice course, obv difficult to say scale but the only one which would have put me off would have been the wagon
and only cos I have a short striding pone who I think would have to stretch a bit on that one!
However I think having looked at the piccies it looks like a nice course, obv difficult to say scale but the only one which would have put me off would have been the wagon
kick_On
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I dont think you can jump a non-flagged course at BE? I thought that was immediate elimination?
[/ QUOTE ]
O yes you can so long as you jump your classes fences in there correct order, you can jump anything else so long as fence is NOT crossed flag, or if you present to your fence and jump next classes fence, then you'll pick up 20 pen
Done it this season
he locked onto N fence and i was Intro!!! we ended jumping PN fence turn around and jumping Intro fence - the only hit you get is TIME!!
I dont think you can jump a non-flagged course at BE? I thought that was immediate elimination?
[/ QUOTE ]
O yes you can so long as you jump your classes fences in there correct order, you can jump anything else so long as fence is NOT crossed flag, or if you present to your fence and jump next classes fence, then you'll pick up 20 pen
Done it this season
Baileyhoss
Well-Known Member
I wasnt' happy with the wagon either so took the black route. The ditch had a black so did the very big drop, and they imo were the real challenging scary ones, so to be honest none fences should have been an issue. I wouldn't have tackled those 3 if I wasn't confident of doing them, particularly competing for a team.
Riding those combinations at the start took planning and thought out riding at the course walk stage, that's where we thought 3 & 4 might be tricky and planned the approach to it, watching those before us reaffirmed our plans, we walked that section twice the night before and again on the day, but I didn't think it was too difficult. If anything, fences one and two could have been a little bigger, so 3 didn't present as such shock.
Riding those combinations at the start took planning and thought out riding at the course walk stage, that's where we thought 3 & 4 might be tricky and planned the approach to it, watching those before us reaffirmed our plans, we walked that section twice the night before and again on the day, but I didn't think it was too difficult. If anything, fences one and two could have been a little bigger, so 3 didn't present as such shock.
kirstyfk
Well-Known Member
I am still gutted that I couldn't go.
So have the Moray teams qualified for the champs then and who was in the teams? Just got the email from Fiona about the placings. It sounded like we had done well but it didn't mention the carnage.
As MM said Knock has been seen as an easier course. Everyone who was at PC tetrathlon their last year said it was, so I suppose it caught people out who thought they would have an easy track. And I don't think Area qualifiers should be used to school a baby round.
So have the Moray teams qualified for the champs then and who was in the teams? Just got the email from Fiona about the placings. It sounded like we had done well but it didn't mention the carnage.
As MM said Knock has been seen as an easier course. Everyone who was at PC tetrathlon their last year said it was, so I suppose it caught people out who thought they would have an easy track. And I don't think Area qualifiers should be used to school a baby round.
Pep12
Well-Known Member
Moray teams were all entered as non qualifiers, which is a pity as they would have done quite well!!
kirstyfk
Well-Known Member
See that really annoys me about my riding club they don't even ask you if you want to enter as a qualifier they just enter you as a non qualifier. So does anyone actually qualify then if the results were so poor.
tiger_feet
Well-Known Member
The hedge at 3 jumped fine it was fence 4 that caused chaos. I had one stop at it and then went second time after two sharp cracks from Mr Whippy - which then flew out of my hand and I had to continue without it :Ooops Had a further 2 stops at the steps for some unknown reason as never had a problem with drops before and then the little b****r ran out at the barrels so technically I was eliminated for having 4 refusals but I did cross the finish line! I did jump the snake as I had no option and as it was not flagged it was classed as a hazard rather than a jump.
I was shocked by the level of riding, particularly in the SJ arena. The amount of people who didn't prepare for the jumps and in particular the dog leg at the end was suprising.
I don't think the course was overlay hard - it is a qualifier after all and in previous years the fences have always been what you'd expect at a RC intermediate class ODE - although I do think that the drop at fence 6 was too much for novice horses and was glad there was an alternative!
I was shocked by the level of riding, particularly in the SJ arena. The amount of people who didn't prepare for the jumps and in particular the dog leg at the end was suprising.
I don't think the course was overlay hard - it is a qualifier after all and in previous years the fences have always been what you'd expect at a RC intermediate class ODE - although I do think that the drop at fence 6 was too much for novice horses and was glad there was an alternative!
tiger_feet
Well-Known Member
Oh, and Baileyhoss - hello! Was desparately trying to think of your forum name when you said hello in the dressage warm-up!
Ridinghill
New User
Hi toto,
That really shouldn't annoy you about your riding club as they are more than happy to enter riders into qualifying sections if 1. they mention it when they put in their entries to the committee and 2. if they are definately willing to travel to offchurch if they win.
P.S. Well done to all the members of Moray Riding Club teams who won and to everyone else who was placed or completed.
That really shouldn't annoy you about your riding club as they are more than happy to enter riders into qualifying sections if 1. they mention it when they put in their entries to the committee and 2. if they are definately willing to travel to offchurch if they win.
P.S. Well done to all the members of Moray Riding Club teams who won and to everyone else who was placed or completed.
kirstyfk
Well-Known Member
Hi Rider, not sure if you will read this or not but I thought I would reply. I think that MRC did very well at Area 22 and I am still gutted that I couldn't go. But should the committee not ask its members if they would like to be put be a qualifying entry at the qualifiers? Instead of people coming to them. A simple email would suffice. I would automatically think that as the competition was a qualifier then I would be entered as a qualifying entry unless told otherwise. I am probably wrong to presume that though.
Ridinghill
New User
Hi Toto,
Thanks for replying.
Sadly the cost of competitors entering as qualifiers is more expensive than entering as non-qualifiers so unless people are definately going to travel to Offchurch in Warwickshire then there is no advantage in entering as qualifiers. When area 22 was at Kirriemuir last year there were only 5 people willing to travel to Kirriemuir to represent their club never mind travelling to the championships in Offchurch. As it was so local this year more people were able and willing to travel and compete for their club, which was fantastic.
But as you seem to have raised a valid point (regarding members choice to be qualifiers or not) that other members may not have thought about would it not be better to contact your club committee and raise the point with them as opposed to raising it in a public forum? That way any future confusion would be avoided - not everyone reads these forums.
Fingers crossed you will be a able to compete next year.
Thanks for replying.
Sadly the cost of competitors entering as qualifiers is more expensive than entering as non-qualifiers so unless people are definately going to travel to Offchurch in Warwickshire then there is no advantage in entering as qualifiers. When area 22 was at Kirriemuir last year there were only 5 people willing to travel to Kirriemuir to represent their club never mind travelling to the championships in Offchurch. As it was so local this year more people were able and willing to travel and compete for their club, which was fantastic.
But as you seem to have raised a valid point (regarding members choice to be qualifiers or not) that other members may not have thought about would it not be better to contact your club committee and raise the point with them as opposed to raising it in a public forum? That way any future confusion would be avoided - not everyone reads these forums.
Fingers crossed you will be a able to compete next year.