Arena etiquette: what's the right answer.

[Caol Ila]

Today, we had 35-40mph winds and rain, which doesn't make the outdoor arena all that useable. But luckily, the riding school has a day off on Mondays, which means the indoor is available.

I take Fin into the indoor. No one else is there. He's not great in it due to lack of exposure because the riding school uses it 90% of the time. It makes a lot of scary, loud noises on windy days. I do about 10 minutes of walking around, which feels super tense, but when he starts feeling a bit better in walk, I ask for a trot. That's alright; I'm thinking we might do something.

At this point, another horse owner walks up to the gate and says, "Is it okay if I set up some jumps?"

Now, the first thing that jumps into my head is, "No, it's not okay." Fin is at his edge of trigger stacking threshold, and someone dragging jumps around (which he's fine with in the outdoor, though it's taken a lot of work to get him there) is going to push him over that.

I also know that once someone starts careening around our wee 20x40 space over said jumps, that’s game over for me.

However, what I say is, "Errrr.....fine. He might be a bit spooky."

The chap cracks on with setting up like four or five jumps. Fin does exactly what I think he is going to do, which is get very worried and spooky, and I'm losing some steering and trying to avoid the guy setting up fences while doing a lot of reversing and spinning.

Here's the question:

Sometimes... well, often, "Is it okay if I do ....." is more of a statement of fact, obsfucated as a question. It's more like announcing, "I am going to set up some jumps," but in a polite manner.

Therefore, are you going to pi$$ someone off if you say, "Well, it's actually not okay because my horse's brain is going to fall out of his ears. Would it be okay if I have another ten minutes?"

I dunno... They got to do what they wanted, but I had a short and lousy ride. I couldn't do what I wanted, which was have a slightly longer and slightly more productive ride. What is the right arena etiquette? Should your horse just man up and deal with whatever people are doing, and if they can't, tough sh1t, that's your problem? Is it a dick move to say, "Can I have ten more minutes of dealing with my problem, before you do your thing, which will add to my problem because this is a complicated ex-feral weirdo horse?"

 

[Lois Lame]

That's a good question.

I guess if you say, "Would it be okay if I have another ten minutes?" followed by an explanation of "my horse's brain is going to fall out of his ears" this would start up a conversation. The chap might say, "I'll have a cup of coffee then before I start." Or he might say something different. Either way, you'll have communicated your true feelings and he has a chance to either give you some space for a while, or not.

(I think it's good to ask the question first, and then give the reason because it gives the other party more time to process what you want.)

I'll be interested to read others' thoughts.

 

[planete]

I would say definitely ok to ask for ten minutes. It is only a short delay after all and I would personally much rather wait than have to scrape somebody off the floor and feel guilty as hell because I caused an accident.

 

[shanti]

I would have absolutely said, do you mind giving me another 10 minutes, because I personally would be fine if that was someone's response to me asking that question.
Some people wouldn't be fine with that but, oh well, that's their problem.

 

[millitiger]

Arena etiquette in a shared yard with shared arena is just to get on with it and share (I am assuming it is big enough to share!).

However, I would have responded to the question with 'would you mind if I had 10 more minutes before you start please?'
I think if you want solo use, you should expect a shorter slot and I think 99% of people wouldn't mind delaying their plans for 10 minutes.

 

[rextherobber]

Arena etiquette in a shared yard with shared arena is just to get on with it and share (I am assuming it is big enough to share!).

However, I would have responded to the question with 'would you mind if I had 10 more minutes before you start please?'
I think if you want solo use, you should expect a shorter slot and I think 99% of people wouldn't mind delaying their plans for 10 minutes.

I think that's fine for schooling, and in my experience, people always ask if they can come in too, but I think jumping is a bit different, I don't see how you can "share" a 20x40 arena with 4 jumps in it?

 

[tatty_v]

Does your yard have any rules around arena sharing? The one I was on had shared slots at peak times where you had to share, but slots at other times were sole use unless you wanted to share.

I sympathise though, I think I’d have asked for the extra 10 minutes. My boy’s singular brain cell has fallen out of his ears of late (thanks spring grass!) and I was very grateful I was in the arena alone yesterday as he spooked and pratted his way around it!

 

[Peglo]

I think that's fine for schooling, and in my experience, people always ask if they can come in too, but I think jumping is a bit different, I don't see how you can "share" a 20x40 arena with 4 jumps in it?

I guess the lad maybe thought in the time he was setting up jumps and went and got his horse etc OP might be finished riding?

Definitely nothing wrong with asking for 10 more minutes and explaining your situation to him. It probably never occurred to him how stressed your horse could get so he thought nothing of setting up jumps.

 

[DabDab]

I'm not sure it is a question of arena etiquette really, just different types of personality trying to interact and share a space.

Google 'askers vs guessers'. I don't know how scientific it is but there certainly are people who ask for whatever they want, whenever they want it, fully accepting that the answer may be no. And there are other people who never ask for anything unless they are almost certain that the answer will be yes and therefore feel obligated to say yes to any requests that someone else makes of them.

So I guess the question is - did you agree to the guy moving the jumps because he put any pressure on you to, or just because your own brain made you feel obligated to say yes when you really meant no?

 

[ElectricChampagne]

As it's a shared arena you can't have the expectation that you've sole use unless you've specifically booked it, but you are entitled to ask for the extra ten minutes if you believe it might be a safety issue, and politely explained it as one. Most people wouldn't mind.

I think the issue stems from being seen as being difficult for the sake of it as some horse owners can be, which you're not falling into this category. It was a genuine safety issue in your case.

Livery yards are a difficult terrain to navigate the best of times so I do think that a bit of give and take from both sides is required.
Personally, if I had seen a horse struggling as you describe while I was moving things, I'd probably have stopped and waited.

Unfortunately it's chalk it down to experience as tomorrow is another day. Hopefully the next ride will be a better one.

 

[PurpleSpots]

I'm not sure it is a question of arena etiquette really, just different types of personality trying to interact and share a space.

Google 'askers vs guessers'. I don't know how scientific it is but there certainly are people who ask for whatever they want, whenever they want it, fully accepting that the answer may be no. And there are other people who never ask for anything unless they are almost certain that the answer will be yes and therefore feel obligated to say yes to any requests that someone else makes of them.

So I guess the question is - did you agree to the guy moving the jumps because he put any pressure on you to, or just because your own brain made you feel obligated to say yes when you really meant no?

Love this answer in particular, much food for thought, but the heart eyes reaction didn't seem quite right!!

 

[Bonnie Allie]

Couple of things:

1) Speak up. Horse people are self centric. The other rider would have been focussed on their need to jump but if you had spoken up and asked for an additional 10mins or let him know your horse was a bit challenged I’m sure the other party would have understood and helped out.
2) Shared spaces mean sometimes you will have to compromise. Not ideal but if you don’t want to do that or don’t feel safe book an exclusive use facility or accept you might need to cut your ride short.
3) Consider alternate methods for teaching your horse to cope in a shared space - so that you are safe. Jump off and do ground work to get your horse relaxed and focussed on you whilst other riders are moving around the shared space.

Above all - communicate. Talk. Be polite but clear.

 

[ihatework]

Generally depends on yard rules. But then not all yards have them or a bit of common decency give and take.

I’d of just given a quick ‘would appreciate 10 mins if possible then will get out of your way’, for anyone jumping. But regular flat work is more fair to share.

 

[Rowreach]

Nobody could use the outdoor because of the weather, but being Monday you could all use the indoor. You don't say what the normal yard etiquette is in this situation but you know your horse will struggle in there, so if you're going to ride, you need to advocate for your horse, pick a slot where you don't need to share, ask for that extra ten minutes if you need it, or don't ride.

The chap asked if he could move a few jumps around and really any horse should be ok with that.

 

[Surbie]

4-5 jumps in a 20x40 makes any schooling difficult. I would have asked for an extra 10 mins and cut my ride short.

You were in the arena first, so I would assume anyone would be ok with that.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I think I would have said can you just wait 10 or 15 minutes so I can finish.

You can't safely ride in an arena that small if someone is jumping and on a crap weather day people should be a bit more considerate about setting up jumps seen as everyone will want to use the indoor.

Both of my horses are not great in an arena with people jumping it sets them off and they get silly, mainly because they don't jump so are not used to jump warm up areas I guess.

 

[Rowreach]

I think I would have said can you just wait 10 or 15 minutes so I can finish.

You can't safely ride in an arena that small if someone is jumping and on a crap weather day people should be a bit more considerate about setting up jumps seen as everyone will want to use the indoor.

Both of my horses are not great in an arena with people jumping it sets them off and they get silly, mainly because they don't jump so are not used to jump warm up areas I guess.

Nobody was jumping.

 

[Palindrome]

I am blunter/ruder than you and would have said no sorry I am doing flatwork/dressage. Flatwork is as valid as jumping as a use of the school.
I don't prevent other people coming in the school when on a yard but I do think setting up jump you can say no.

 

[Abacus]

Sure, arena etiquette may say that anyone should be prepared to share. But we all know horses, and if one of them is tense and needs to be managed a bit, it's unfair to have your fun at their expense and spoil the other person's session, possibly doing more harm than good. It's too easy to say that any horse should cope with others in there. Sure you'd aim for that, but they aren't all perfect. If someone was riding in my (outdoor not especially spooky) arena I'd wait until they were done unless I knew they were fine sharing, and I own the place. It's just kinder.

That said on a slightly different topic, some old dark spooky indoor arenas are horrid, and some horses never really settle in them. I was once on a yard with one of these, I gave up even trying to use it as I felt it didn't do my spooky horse any good at all. If you want to desensitise him, could you pick some quiet times for groundwork or lunging or loose lunging to get him settled in there before you actually try to have productive flatwork sessions? Not having a go at you at all, just a suggestion.

 

[ycbm]

On a big yard with the indoor being the only feasible space to work in, this would depend for me on how many people might want to use the school. If he was the only one and he wasn't likely to have others asking him to stop jumping so they could do flat work, then it would have been reasonable to ask for 10 more minutes. If others would be queuing up, then I don't think it's unreasonable to ask to put up jumps while someone else is doing some flat work. This wouldn't be a problem for most horses or riders unless they were doing a particular dressage test run-through. So it's very dependant on circumstances.
.

 

[Alibear]

In your situation, I'd have asked for 10 minutes. It's weird how 10mins seems fine, but 15 seems to be pushing it, but that's life
You have a good reason, and it's not a regular occurrence; I would also be prepared to have given up if they said no, as there's no benefit to my horse to keep going under those circumstances.

 

[Jambarissa]

I think you are right that it's more a question than a statement but at least if phrased as a question you can counter with something reasonable. The 'could I just have 10 mins please' seems OK. Possibly he would say that he only has very limited time to ride and would carry on regardless but then at least you'd both be aware that he wasn't really asking.

We have the same issue in our huge summer riding field. Someone will complain because you're galloping your horse on the opposite side to them or that you leave just as they get there so their horse is lonely and wants to go too. Can't win!

I do think in general the one who can't control their horse needs to be the one giving way. I'm in control of my own horse and at a respectful distance (not the situation you describe) so whilst I'm sympathetic I'm not always prepared to limit my activities to suit other people.

 

[Cortez]

Well, both really……yes, your horse (and you) should be able to cope with what is after all normal goings on around him - and if it was me I’d be happy to use it as a further schooling/obedience/concentration opportunity - and yes, it would be perfectly reasonable to ask for the interloper to wait for a few minutes so you could get the most out of your blessed solitude. It’s as much an attitude adjustment as anything else.

 

[webble]

That's a good question.

I guess if you say, "Would it be okay if I have another ten minutes?" followed by an explanation of "my horse's brain is going to fall out of his ears" this would start up a conversation. The chap might say, "I'll have a cup of coffee then before I start." Or he might say something different. Either way, you'll have communicated your true feelings and he has a chance to either give you some space for a while, or not.

(I think it's good to ask the question first, and then give the reason because it gives the other party more time to process what you want.)

I'll be interested to read others' thoughts.

I would definitely say can you hang on 10 min please and I'll be finished. Coming in and putting jumps up especially in that small a space is just rude IMO, regardless of whether your horse would be tipped over the edge you cant practice proper flat work in that small space well around jumps

 

[HopOnTrot]

You could think of it as a training exercise, aim is to walk calmly around the weird jumps being moved around, next time it happens it’s less novel and maybe you can trot round them.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I personally would have thought it was cheeky to have asked for extra time for sole use if you haven't booked it, especially if the weather wasn't great and the school is likely going to be in demand.

My pony used to be worried and spooky about shared use but whilst I was helping him through that, I set him up for success by not trying to use it when it's likely to be busy or cutting short my planned session if someone else turned up.

 

[holeymoley]

I’ve not read any replies yet. I think when you’re on a big yard like the one you’re on OP, it’s fairly common for folk to come in and start setting up around about you. With an inexperienced/young horse that was anxious or not as confident I’d have probably done what I could have and left on a good note. Yes its cut short but I was always taught (and proved by my oldie horse when he was a baby!) that it’s much more productive to do 5 minutes and end on a good note than to be hell bent and continue on for 20/30mins and just get in to a whole load of problems.

I think it’s tricky on a big yard, there needs to be a bit of come and go on both sides. Maybe just saying ‘of course, he’s young though and being a bit of a clown with the weather today, could you just give me another 5/10mins?’

 

[millitiger]

Separate to OP with a particularly spooky horse...
I'm genuinely bemused about people saying it isn't possible to do flatwork in a 20 x 40 if there are 4 jumps out or being put out.
What on earth happens in a competition warm up?

 

[ihatework]

Separate to OP with a particularly spooky horse...
I'm genuinely bemused about people saying it isn't possible to do flatwork in a 20 x 40 if there are 4 jumps out or being put out.
What on earth happens in a competition warm up?

I think people are reading it that you have someone jumping in a 20 x 40. If that is the case then TBF I’d want to be on a more solid horse if I were schooling.

Putting some fences out, I’m like meh - get over it and use it as a training opportunity.

At the same time, if it’s a bigger yard and weather means a few people are trying to get horses exercised in a small school, then I think it boarders on daft/rude to be jumping at that point in time.

 

[DabDab]

Separate to OP with a particularly spooky horse...
I'm genuinely bemused about people saying it isn't possible to do flatwork in a 20 x 40 if there are 4 jumps out or being put out.
What on earth happens in a competition warm up?

Genuinely can't see anyone who has said that. There are a couple of posters talking about the difficulty/not wanting to school in that kind of space with someone also jumping. Mostly people are talking about the interaction between two humans because that's what the op asked about.