Arena Eventing - I don’t get it

[Patterdale]

It’s just a guessing/luck game isn’t it? Seriously is it just me?? Am I massively missing something? I must be because it’s very popular!

I entered an AE competition recently, first one I’ve done. Basically there was an optimum time, and the winner was whoever got closest to it with a clear. So the skill part is judging your time yes?? Only they didn’t publish the time until the class began and I was on, and even if they had you’re not allowed a watch anyway!

Jumped two beautiful clear rounds, both quite close to the optimum, finished with too-fast faults in first class, and too-slow in the other.

Maybe I am too competitive - but I can’t accept that the final result comes down to chance! The top 10-12 places in each class were nice balanced clears separated by a few seconds that were completely unjudgeable. Without a watch you can’t possibly hit an optimum time!

I think my AE career is over ? jump offs and dressage you can actually improve on!

Mini rant over!

 

[TheMule]

I do tend to agree with you as I think arena eventing is pretty pointless, but it is over a set pace so it's about the rider's judgement of the speed they are travelling at. Just made into more of a random unknown when you don’t know how they've wheeled the course

 

[Patterdale]

I do tend to agree with you as I think arena eventing is pretty pointless, but it is over a set pace so it's about the rider's judgement of the speed they are travelling at. Just made into more of a random unknown when you don’t know how they've wheeled the course

Yes!! Exactly!! It’s not like a XC course where it’s basically straight lines.
I can judge 350mpm fairly well, but not to the second and not, as you say, when you don’t really know the distance.

I think this has possibly irritated me more than it should (!)

 

[Patterdale]

Just me and mule then ?

 

[LEC]

I don’t bother doing them. A waste of time as don’t educate the horse and it’s not like xc. No decent pro rider I know does them.

I think they are a bit of fun for the Amateur market over the winter.

 

[dixie]

I’ve always viewed AE as good training for eventing and just a bit of fun.
i can see what you mean about the competitive side but for some it’s just the matter of getting round.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I use them as a nice training outing too, especially the early ones on a surface, means I can get the horses out over solid fences when the ground is still iffy. I’ve never managed to be competitive though ??.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I've used it as schooling over various fences.
The courses vary so much too, you can have full indoor (a forest of jumps), part arena and part out with whp jumps, part arena/grass arena and out over fixed xc jumps and perhaps more. It all very much depends on the venue.

 

[Trouper]

I have watched a friend do ODE's where no optimum time was given for the XC. Totally pointless. You can't judge a rider's skill if there is no target to aim at and if an optimum time is good enough for the likes of Burghley and Badminton then............................

 

[ycbm]

Many, many years ago I won a cross country judged on unknown optimum time. I was only out for a fun whizz, didn't care what time I was going to get, didn't walk the course properly and ended up round the wrong side of the water with no direct route to the next fence, turned round and had to cover at least 200 metres more ground, and hit the optimum time spot on!

I agree, unknown optimum time competitions are just a lottery.
.

 

[Abacus]

Having a specific time to aim at seems to me to take away the point of cross country (including within an arena). A time range is sensible in ensuring horses don’t go too fast and don’t trot most of the course, but otherwise it should be about the jumping. That time range should allow for the variety of horses going round and enable faster or slower horses to compete. Aiming at a time just seems a bit pointless to me and is likely to encourage bad jumping, most likely people pushing on too fast. Otherwise though I don’t mind popping round a course of arena fences even if it’s not the same as real cross country.

 

[ihatework]

Only use I can see for them is training outings.

 

[HashRouge]

I don’t bother doing them. A waste of time as don’t educate the horse and it’s not like xc. No decent pro rider I know does them.

I think they are a bit of fun for the Amateur market over the winter.

I know a couple of (decent) pros who do them through the winter to give their younger horses some experience over a variety of fences. I'd imagine trying to be competitive at them is a whole different kettle of fish though!

 

[ihatework]

I don’t bother doing them. A waste of time as don’t educate the horse and it’s not like xc. No decent pro rider I know does them.

I think they are a bit of fun for the Amateur market over the winter.

Plenty of pros do them … Nexgen ?
But those ones have a point to them admittedly

 

[ycbm]

I see the point of it at Somerford, where they link all the showground arenas and the water complex together, with a bank between arenas, and make a proper long course. I'm jiggling with excitement for the camps to end and the course to be installed, can't wait to get out there!

This lot, plus a big water complex that you can see the paths to and from to the right, all as one cross country course.

 

[SOS]

I haven’t really done many, certainly not for an while and didn’t realise an optimum time wasn’t given as standard.

However there is a lot to be said for riding on feel and if the optimum time is set fairly then this wouldn’t bother me. After all when I did a little eventing my old school instructor, who had competed to 5* (or what was then 4*) believed watches shouldn’t be allowed at lower levels as they took away the element of feeling how a horse was going, riding away from a fence and your natural clock. My first few events I had too slow time faults but then never struggled and never wore a watch. As the majority of AE is up to a metre perhaps this is where it comes from, ride a consistent pace with smooth turns and no dodgy jumps and you will likely make the time? A bit like a showjumping course…

 

[MissTyc]

I do it for winter fun but not competitively. I did a few times when it first was a thing, but didn't really see the point. For training/winter fun, however, I find it most excellent. Up steps, down steps, water, hedges in the middle of an arena. Great fun. Also nice for introducing youngster to small XC fences on safe footing. I don't do big fences arena XC as can't get the pace for them and keep that for proper XC later in the season.

 

[Patterdale]

I have watched a friend do ODE's where no optimum time was given for the XC. Totally pointless. You can't judge a rider's skill if there is no target to aim at and if an optimum time is good enough for the likes of Burghley and Badminton then............................

Yes but the competition isn’t judged on how close you happen to get to the optimum time, that’s the difference.

I think AE just isn’t for me ??
I like to think I have a chance of winning or getting placed, and if I don’t win or place I like to be able to think right, this is why I didn’t do well, then go home and work on whatever let me down.

Each to their own

 

[MagicMelon]

This is how hunter paces used to work - it was proper XC but there was an optimum time you had to aim for (but no watches allowed), I guess in theory its trying to get you to learn to feel the pace you need rather than depending on watches all the time. Ive very rarely worn a watch for BE even. I did an arena event at the weekend but I think it was simply fastest time in the XC part was the winner as they didnt seem to do time penalties. It was mainly won by little buzzy ponies of course as a result (it was just unaff so adults and kids together). I used it purely for experience for a green horse so wasnt in it to win it!

 

[RachelFerd]

I see the point of it at Somerford, where they link all the showground arenas and the water complex together, with a bank between arenas, and make a proper long course. I'm jiggling with excitement for the camps to end and the course to be installed, can't wait to get out there!

This lot, plus a big water complex that you can see the paths to and from to the right, all as one cross country course.

View attachment 100152

It's a great training area, and made better for the fact that they don't run competitions over it, so it is actually available for training at the weekends when people need it most. Unfortunately the volume of people on it means that you would rarely be able to link much up as a full course across the whole space. Maybe if you're able to go on weekday mornings you'd get a better shot, but i'm always at work! I do enjoy the fact that Andy sets up some proper nov/int lines which really help horses to sharpen up for the upcoming season.

Don't see the point in arena eventing competitions much either - pretty random most of the time. I liked it back when JAS was a thing and it was scored on style and speed.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

It's just fun. I love the AE course at Chatsworth but am aware that it's a lottery in terms of placings - assuming you are clear of course.

The only time it really annoys me is when they use AE for NSEA qualifiers. It's not fair to have a lottery for a comp wehere the outcome is actually important. Katie came third at Eland once and needed top 2 for Hickstead qualification. She was fuming!

 

[ycbm]

made better for the fact that they don't run competitions over it,

I didn't know that, I thought people did. I'll only be practising over it, not competing, but it looks like huge fun!
.

 

[RachelFerd]

I didn't know that, I thought people did. I'll only be practising over it, not competing, but it looks like huge fun!
.

No competitions that I'm aware of - and long may it stay like that!!!

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I did an arena event at the weekend but I think it was simply fastest time in the XC part was the winner as they didnt seem to do time penalties. It was mainly won by little buzzy ponies of course as a result (it was just unaff so adults and kids together). I used it purely for experience for a green horse so wasnt in it to win it!

The Sunshine Tour arena eventing is timed over the xc type fences.
Usually you pop round the SJ and then go through the timer and start xc, fastest clear wins. Time faults added for sj poles down.
The only ones of theirs I've done were all the same as above (not done one in 2 years tho as not many local to here now) though they could have changed to optimum since.

 

[maya2008]

I’ve been to a fair few hunter trials with a secret optimum time. Went for the schooling experience so didn’t care about the results, but I agree it’s hard to win something if you don’t know what you are aiming for!

 

[mini_b]

I’ve been to a fair few hunter trials with a secret optimum time. Went for the schooling experience so didn’t care about the results, but I agree it’s hard to win something if you don’t know what you are aiming for!

the secret optimum time is so that you’re meant to be travelling at a sort of brisk hunting place. Shifting ground but not XC gallop. The idea is that you’re out at a pace that your horse can sustain for a day on the hunting field.

 

[myheartinahoofbeat]

I totally agree with you and this is my is my bug bare with Hunter Trials. How are you learning to ride at a cross country pace if the time is undisclosed? It's luck rather than a skill.

 

[shortstuff99]

Hunter trials (and Arena Eventing) normally disclose the speed and distance of the course, you can then work out the optimum time.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

But you aren't allowed a watch anyway. I think they are fun, and it is a skill to be near the optimim time which is set at a forward XC canter. But for the top placings within a few seconds of each other, it's luck as to whether you are a couple of seconds under, bang on or a couple of seconds over. Which makes winning/placing very luck driven. I prefer JAS to arena eventing: Penalties for jumping faults, time pens for too fast or too slow and a style score. Katie had zero time or jumping pens at the NSEA champs - but nor did about 12 other people. All were riding at an appropriate pace, all clear. So I was pleased that separating them came down to how they rode and not just luck. Felt fairer.

 

[HappyHackerK8]

I don’t bother doing them. A waste of time as don’t educate the horse and it’s not like xc. No decent pro rider I know does them.

I think they are a bit of fun for the Amateur market over the winter.

It’s not really a waste of time if folk want to A) just enjoy an event with their horse B) want to school around some XC fences on a young horse/nervous rider. Just because “decent pro riders” don’t do it or because it’s not under rules doesn’t make it a time waste! Each to their own?