ARGH! worms

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buzyizzy

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Having done a worm count just before our move to the yard where we stayed for ten days, I have now been at the present yard for seven weeks. I was given a field that had had horses in it until recently and I was removing all the poo as I strip grazed them each day. Then, after two weeks, I was given another field that had been grazed until 2 days previously. The owners of the horses there had poo picked before they left, but there was still a lot round the edges under trees etc. Anyway, having had an all clear worm count two months ago, I was surprised to see a worm in a fresh dropping yesterday. About an inch long, white and looked complete, I am assuming thread worm? Really cross and I shall have to examine their droppings in the stable tomorrow and see if I can find more.
When I first had a horse in the dark ages, we used to worm and keep them in for at least 24 hours before turnout, and all livery yards had a strict worming programme. We never grazed on fields if the horses had just been wormed, and never had a worm burden problem.
Why are people so irresponsible? I always clear my field every day :(
 
In the dark ages there was no understanding of resistance or refugia (and worryingly in many places there still isn't). I think most adult horses have natural immunity to threadworm so it's unlikely that you've seen one unless the paddock was grazed by youngstock that haven't been treated. I would just keep up the worm egg counts and worm according to them.
 
A clear worm count doesn't mean no worms just no eggs seen in the sample so a low or even zero count does not guarantee the horse has no internal worms.

Keeping in after worming is totally pointless as any worms expelled are dead and are not going to be releasing eggs to contaminate the land, keeping a new horse in until after worming makes sense but not routine with horses already on the yard, there are so many different ideas about worms and worming and some are so outdated, yes the horses may well have picked eggs up from the new paddock but it could have picked it up almost anywhere it has had access to a mouthful or two of grass if the grass was contaminated.

In the dark ages horses tended to have less restricted grazing in general, new horses were kept in for 24 hours although poo picking was unheard of but so were worm counts so we really had very little idea of what was going on inside and many probably did suffer from worm burdens until they showed symptoms and got treated, maybe my dark ages were before yours?
 
Are you sure it's not pin worm ? Don't show on a wec hence could have been clear last time. Any scratching of the bottom /tail ? They are the size you describe and white/translucent.
Things have moved on a lot in worming in the past few years and the keeping them in after worming thing I believe is not suggested now days.
 
Yeah, probably pinworm. You will find them in the droppings but they do disintegrate very quickly when exposed to the air.

Here is my post from 2017:

The general consensus now is that Panacur Guard 5 day wormer is the best one to use followed four to six weeks later by another wormer with the right chemical in it - Pyrantel Embonate (found in Strongid P and Pyratape P). These pinworms are becoming more and more prevalent and vets are only now waking up as to how to deal with them.


The pinworms live inside the rear end of the horse. They come out when the horse is resting, normally at night, and lay their eggs around the anus. You might see a sticky substance containing the eggs deposited by them around the anus. The eggs drop off into the bedding and pasture or by being rubbed onto stable walls and fences. Horses carrying these worms will often scratch themselves to the point of making sores which can get infected. But not all horses scratch. They can be a complete nightmare to get rid of and can take up to 18 months to 2 years to eradicate. This is because you need to break the cycle of the horse ingesting the eggs and then breeding again. The eggs can remain viable outside the body for about 6 to 10 weeks.
Ingested eggs hatch in the small intestine releasing the L3 larvae that penetrate into the mucosa. About a week later they molt to L4-larvae that attach to the mucosa of the ventral colon. About 2 months later they complete development to adult worms. Sexual maturity is reached 3-4 months later.

The time between infection and first eggs shed (prepatent period) is 4-6 months, although there are reports suggesting that it may be shorter based on the observation of foals not older than 3.5 months that already carried Oxyuris egg masses in the perianal region.

It appears that normal wormers are ineffective because they are absorbed before they get to the worms in the hindgut. The only success most owners report is using 5 day panacur guard combined with the use of Neem Oil. You can buy organic Neem Oil cheaply on Ebay. You need to paint the Neem Oil on every day, preferable twice, but more importantly at night. This oil prevents the eggs from sticking and also is a powerful insecticide which harms the worms if they touch it. Some people say that it also interferes with the hormones of the worms - not sure about that though. Some owners have also used syringed wormers by inserting them in the anus but some vets say that this does not work.

It is advisable to disinfect the stable, (walls and destroy bedding) tack and the grooming kit.
Apart from being ugly and creepy they don't actually harm the horse unless, of course, the horse is causing sores from scratching.
 
Thanks. I haven't seen any more of them and don't know which one has them, but will certainly check bottoms tomorrow. Neither are especially rubbing their bottoms, but you never know. Maybe I should wait another month then do their Autumn worming.
Interesting about the pinworms.
 
My horse has had pinworm and they are a nightmare to get rid of as he was just being reinfected after I treated it. As has already been said, pinworm don't show in faecal egg counts. Also if it is pinworm they have a long (five months or so) life cycle so your horse would have had them prior to you moving yards seven weeks ago as the ones that pass in faeces are dead mature worms. Best to do a sellotape pinworm test to check whether the horse has them or not. They don't always rub their bottoms when they have pinworms. Good luck with it all!
 
You sometimes need to try several active ingredients before you can be rid of pinworms - and that's what it sounds like.
As the eggs are stuck around the horse's rectum its a good idea to wash that area regularly with some warm water and baby shampoo to help dislodge them - rinse thoroughly after shampoo.
 
My vet recommend that I wipe H's bum with wet wipes (of any variety, I bought a load from the pound shop!) every day and that, with worming, has done the trick of breaking the infection cycle. I also apply neem oil to his bum. I did find though that in the hot dry weather his bum skin became a bit sore so I stopped wiping for a little while.

I have used a combination of moxidectin, pyrantel and ivermectin since the beginning of the year, but I have used the Panacur Equine Guard (5 day) in the past and that works nicely too. It's all about the bum wiping though with pinworm. And I poo pick the paddock. I don't know why people think horse ownership is glamourous.
 
Second that about neem oil - horses can be allergic, or develop allergy, to it. My boy was fine with neem oil last year so I assumed it was Ok to use again this year, but he came out in blisters and the skin peeled off :( so do be careful as I'd imagine that happening right on the arris would be extremely painful!

Wet wipes is a good idea. Probably best done in the morning though that isn't always possible, for those of us that don't go up before work...
 
ponyparty said:
Second that about neem oil - horses can be allergic, or develop allergy, to it. My boy was fine with neem oil last year so I assumed it was Ok to use again this year, but he came out in blisters and the skin peeled off :( so do be careful as I'd imagine that happening right on the arris would be extremely painful!

Wet wipes is a good idea. Probably best done in the morning though that isn't always possible, for those of us that don't go up before work...
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Ouchies! I stopped putting the neem oil on and was just wiping for a couple of months, and I think it was the wiping that was just drying the skin out. In hindsight I probably should have applied baby oil afterwards to moisturise. I'm the same in the sense I don't always go up in the morning (I work shifts) but vet said do it anyway. It seemed to work and we have been pinworm free since about February now. Exciting! Just done a sellotape test last week. Long may it continue.
 
the trouble with pinworm is that when you give a horse a wormer to eradicate them, by the time the wormer has got through the gut to the where the pin worms live its ineffective as its taken so long and is so diluted so some vets recommend putting a wormer that targets pinworm up the bottom of the horse. Also selenium sulphide shampoo is meant to work effectively as a wash.
 
BeckyFlowers said:
My vet recommend that I wipe H's bum with wet wipes (of any variety, I bought a load from the pound shop!) every day and that, with worming, has done the trick of breaking the infection cycle. I also apply neem oil to his bum. I did find though that in the hot dry weather his bum skin became a bit sore so I stopped wiping for a little while.

I have used a combination of moxidectin, pyrantel and ivermectin since the beginning of the year, but I have used the Panacur Equine Guard (5 day) in the past and that works nicely too. It's all about the bum wiping though with pinworm. And I poo pick the paddock. I don't know why people think horse ownership is glamourous.
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I have to get out the wipes every time i bring mine to a horse show. As soon as he goes in the box, he's off! He gets it absolutely everywhere... I don't understand how he does it.
 
hopscotch bandit said:
the trouble with pinworm is that when you give a horse a wormer to eradicate them, by the time the wormer has got through the gut to the where the pin worms live its ineffective as its taken so long and is so diluted so some vets recommend putting a wormer that targets pinworm up the bottom of the horse. Also selenium sulphide shampoo is meant to work effectively as a wash.
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Apparently the up-the-bum method is no longer recommended - the solution is only deposited a small way in. However, at one time my vet recommended this (an ivermectin solution once a day for five days) and the worms were practically falling out although these were the ones that were very close to coming out anyway but it was pretty grim. It just went to show how riddled he was. My vet said the current advice is oral ivermectin and sellotape testing. She had just been to some sort of nationwide equine veterinary and had a session on parasitology conference and that's what they were saying apparently.
 
BeckyFlowers said:
Apparently the up-the-bum method is no longer recommended - the solution is only deposited a small way in. However, at one time my vet recommended this (an ivermectin solution once a day for five days) and the worms were practically falling out although these were the ones that were very close to coming out anyway but it was pretty grim. It just went to show how riddled he was. My vet said the current advice is oral ivermectin and sellotape testing. She had just been to some sort of nationwide equine veterinary and had a session on parasitology conference and that's what they were saying apparently.
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Well good luck with it, I know someone who had it with her horse and it was a nightmare but they got rid of it in the end but spent a fortune treating it before they did.
 
Er, sellotape test? Is it what I am thinking, taping round their bottom and removing to see if any eggs/worms attached? God if only everyone who thinks we go around dressed to kill and poncing about on our horses knew how glamourous our lives are :D
 
buzyizzy said:
Er, sellotape test? Is it what I am thinking, taping round their bottom and removing to see if any eggs/worms attached? God if only everyone who thinks we go around dressed to kill and poncing about on our horses knew how glamourous our lives are :D
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Yeah, you stick some sellotape over the anus and surrounding bit of skin, fold it together and send it to the lab where they will look at it under the microscope for the presence of pinworm eggs. Your vet should be able to analyse it, although I do mine through Westgate Labs and post it to them.
 
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