The Xmas Furry
Old Timer
I'd offer to help but there is NO quick fix.
There is a lot of work, and homework for owner to repeat and repeat...
What county are you in?
Arghhhh he did it, he pulled away and *****ed off in the dark
- Thread starter Horsekaren
- Start date
I'd offer to help but there is NO quick fix.
There is a lot of work, and homework for owner to repeat and repeat...
What county are you in?
Season’s Bleatings
Well-Known Member
Ahh fair enough - I understand why you'd not identify the "best avoided" ones!
{97702}
...
OK I am nothing but predictable, but have we established that this is for real???!!
If so, then I totally agree with IHW's responses
If so, then I totally agree with IHW's responses
Auslander
Well-Known Member
Short term fix. Put a bridle on him, attach the lunge line to the bit ring nearest you, because that works most effectively to pull their heads round, then put the headcollar rope round his nose and thread it through the side ring of the (standard) headcollar so his nose is lassoed. Walk him in under close control - holding the headcollar rope taut, with his head slightly turned towards you, and the point of your elbow against his shoulder so that he can't shoulder barge you and **** off. Give a him a few nudges on the headcollar rope, so he knows it's there.
If he still tries to get away, you've got the bridle and lunge line as back up. Do your damndest tp pull his head round, and wedge your fist on your hip to help you anchor him. Now isn't the time to think about backing him up, or taking him back and tarting again - it's just about getting him to his stable safely, with you in control.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
You put it on. You hold if the horse tries to run away. The horse stops trying to run away. You stop holding. It's simple. So much unnecessary fear about chifneys. I've been quite tough with the odd bumptious horse in the past and never managed to damage one yet. They are very respectful of them almost always.
What would you prefer, that the OP gets her teeth kicked down her throat tomorrow?
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AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
The owner isn't able to do this judging by her comments and to be fair a rude horse could still get away from the handler. None of us are strong enough to forcibly hold onto a horse that is leaving the scene through either rudeness or fear.
A properly halter broken horse is getting to be a rare beast - why ? because no one seems to remember it is the most important part of a young horses education and simply don't bother to train them.
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
Can you ask YO for help until the weekend?
When you lead, make sure that you have your hard hat and good gloves on. Choose your gloves carefully, my cob can soon suss out if my gloves are slippy enough to let her get her head down on the way to the field, you need super grippy gloves. Put his bridle on and lead with the reins, as you would at the end of a ride. Keep a really close eye on his body language, so that you can correct him while he is still thinking about misbehaving. Walk at, or just in front of, his shoulder, keep his head turned slightly towards you. Hold a schooling whip just in front of him, vibrate it against his chest if he wants to go in front of you, so that he understands that it is there, if he keeps pushing use the whip more firmly, you can hold it in front of his nose when he understands that you *will* use it. If you consider that the stick is a barrier, he will too. Use this equipment in the morning when you put him out, so that you both get the idea before you need to bring in, in the dark. If you can find a fellow livery to help, so much the better.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
It’s being dually’d by a Novice. I’d give her better odds of getting to and from field/stable with a bit in its gob over the next few days.
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
You are right AA. I have to say that I think that is because so few people can use a halter properly and they don't fit headcollars to be effective either.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Exactly.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Obviously not - don't be facetious.
But she stands more chance of that happening mis-using a chiffney or stallion chain, than using a bridle.
debsflo
Well-Known Member
Are you getting the vet to check for ulcers as a priority.
My young mare was behaving horrendously after we changed fields, barging and got away from me bringing in one day and jumped a fence.
After a week of her behaviour on the ground worsening I was concerned that something physical was going on as she was bordering on dangerous and like you I was dreading having to deal with her.
I put her on box rest for a few days and pain relief and gave us a bit of time and then used a bridle and 12 foot rope for lead in.
Prior to that she was in a dually it made no difference.
After 3 vet visits in 3 weeks I asked them to scope her which they did and we found grade 3 ulcers.
My poor mare has been in pain and that was a large part of her behaviour.
Please get you're horse checked out before assuming it's just naughty t s.
My young mare was behaving horrendously after we changed fields, barging and got away from me bringing in one day and jumped a fence.
After a week of her behaviour on the ground worsening I was concerned that something physical was going on as she was bordering on dangerous and like you I was dreading having to deal with her.
I put her on box rest for a few days and pain relief and gave us a bit of time and then used a bridle and 12 foot rope for lead in.
Prior to that she was in a dually it made no difference.
After 3 vet visits in 3 weeks I asked them to scope her which they did and we found grade 3 ulcers.
My poor mare has been in pain and that was a large part of her behaviour.
Please get you're horse checked out before assuming it's just naughty t s.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I see it the other way round AA. Most people with young horses train them fine. Then they get sold and new owners who want to 'bond' and be 'loved' let the discipline drop, let them snatch grass, rush to the field, etc, and teach the horse to ignore the halter.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I am not being facetious, I consider it a real risk. And a risk that would be hugely reduced by using a chifney. I have never seen anything but good come of using them. I have no idea why people are so scared of them. I think it's just the look of them.
Horsekaren
Well-Known Member
Can I ask how you all come to have this wealth of experience ?
I was a stable girl at a riding school for 3 years at the age of 11 obviously didn't learn much, I then loaned and learnt a lot but it seems I'm struggling with lack of knowledge and experience , i can't gain experience as I'm living it, what else can I do ?? How did everyone else learn to deal with a horse that wasn't perfect all the time?
I read and read and pester everyone on here is there anything else I should be doing ?
I confidently deal with all of the other horses on the yard but it seems when it comes to my own I'm failing...
I was a stable girl at a riding school for 3 years at the age of 11 obviously didn't learn much, I then loaned and learnt a lot but it seems I'm struggling with lack of knowledge and experience , i can't gain experience as I'm living it, what else can I do ?? How did everyone else learn to deal with a horse that wasn't perfect all the time?
I read and read and pester everyone on here is there anything else I should be doing ?
I confidently deal with all of the other horses on the yard but it seems when it comes to my own I'm failing...
poiuytrewq
Well-Known Member
Mm, also could cause a broken jaw or tongue amputation if the horse does manage to get loose and stands on the rope whilst tearing off. Some horses don't respect a chifney, if this horse has never worn one it possibly won't.
Dave's Mam
Well-Known Member
When I started to lose my grip on my confidence, I got my instructor in. Beside me, on the ground. She worked with us both. She taught me how to handle my pony & taught me how to handle my confidence.
If I knew where you were, I could tell you if she would be able to get to you. Many on here have seen videos of how she backed my pony & vouch for her ways.
Feel free to pm me.
If I knew where you were, I could tell you if she would be able to get to you. Many on here have seen videos of how she backed my pony & vouch for her ways.
Feel free to pm me.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Never seen or heard of a genuine case of that happening. Lots of apocryphal stories, yes, but no evidence.
But frankly, if it's between that and the horse kicking her head in tomorrow, I'd take the horse getting hurt rather than the handler every time.
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AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
You have a point. Out of my 3 youngsters I have one that would forget his manners in someone elses hands. Another point is that so many people think rudeness is normal behaviour. The comment of ' oh he always does that' gets my goat. Sadly the horse is always the one to ultimately suffer from poor training.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Truthfully, you probably want him to like/love you too much.
If you treat him like every other horse in the yard, he is likely to behave like every other horse in the yard.
mini-eventer
Well-Known Member
Stick a bridle on him, lunge line through the bit rings. I have had exactly the same issue. Despite considering myself relatively experienced. He knew exactly what he was doing it was ingrained by the time I got him. There were times that the he ended up on the end of the rope but you then have a bit of leverage to stop them. He never got away from me with the bridle on. Don’t get disheartened. But don’t bring him in in anything less than a bridle for a good while.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
With you there. Too much wanting the horse to love you, not enough discipline.
poiuytrewq
Well-Known Member
You can and are gaining experience, this is all a learning curve and one day you will be advising someone in a similar situation what you have learnt.
I think it's harder with your own horse because maybe a little bit of you wants the horse to like you? This is an easy way to slip up. Be firm regardless. Secondly if you can't handle a friends horse who cares? Hand it back, that's not an option with your own so it becomes more important and more stressful when it's going wrong.
Chin up! You've had some good advise and you will get there
AmyMay
Situation normal
They are a useful tool in the right hands. And I'm certainly not scared of them. But I've seen the damage caused on handler and horse as a result of inexperience.
Thankfully the op is not stupid....... 😏
Leo Walker
Well-Known Member
A Dually was the only thing that worked with mine. Chifneys and bridles or ropes over the poll/nose etc made no difference. Neither did hours of ground work. He would be fine 99.9% of the time but if he sensed any sort of weakness he would sod off. He tried it a couple of times in a Dually, got brought round and back under control and then gave up. So long as he had it on we never had an issue with him.
If this horse has learnt to get away in a Dually, its going to get away in a bridle or headcollar and probably in a chifney. The OP is clearly a novice. What is she going to do after she stops this horse getting away and then has to deal with a hyped up horse on the end of a rope?? Or if he gets away and is galloping round with a chifney in his mouth?
Its all well and good recommending things that have worked for you, but you need to bear in mind who you are recommending it to!
Honestly OP, leave the horse in the stable. Get the vet back out as a priority and then when you have identified and removed pain you can worry about the rest.
If this horse has learnt to get away in a Dually, its going to get away in a bridle or headcollar and probably in a chifney. The OP is clearly a novice. What is she going to do after she stops this horse getting away and then has to deal with a hyped up horse on the end of a rope?? Or if he gets away and is galloping round with a chifney in his mouth?
Its all well and good recommending things that have worked for you, but you need to bear in mind who you are recommending it to!
Honestly OP, leave the horse in the stable. Get the vet back out as a priority and then when you have identified and removed pain you can worry about the rest.
poiuytrewq
Well-Known Member
I have.
Some horses who have maybe never worn one don't have any respect. I have one that rears loading regardless of what's in his mouth.
I do however agree they are usually invaluable and stop trouble before it begins with lots of horses. I have one hanging out on the yard at work permenantly.
JFTDWS
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++
Every time you handle someone else's horse and do something less than ideal, the next day, the owner has the opportunity to correct it before the horse learns to be a total thug. When you handle your own, day in, day out, there is no external correction - every mistake you make is cumulative. And then you end up with a beast.
Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is very often the result of a lack of wisdom. You make mistakes and you learn from them - or not - but the trouble with horses is that if the first mistake is bad enough, you may not get that chance. Hence the recommendations of external, quality input.
No :eek3:
Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is very often the result of a lack of wisdom. You make mistakes and you learn from them - or not - but the trouble with horses is that if the first mistake is bad enough, you may not get that chance. Hence the recommendations of external, quality input.
No :eek3:
Auslander
Well-Known Member
What you're dealing with at the moment is what will make you more able to deal with it if it happens with another horse down the line. A lot of people on here have been dealing with tricky horses for a long time, and we've learned what we know through bitter experience. You don't learn about tricky horses helping out at riding schools, as they are generally pretty easy, and the ones that aren't, aren't left to helpers to handle.
I've been working with horses for 25 years, and I've always ended up being delegated the naughty ones, as I'm tall, strong, and have always had a bit of a knack for keeping all 4 feet mostly where I want them.
My beloved Alf was a fruitcake when I got him - he panicked, knocked me over and trampled me twice in the first two weeks I had him, and I couldn't lead him anywhere without a bridle and a lungeline - I learned pretty quickly that if I babied him he was worse - so started giving him a dig in the ribs with one elbow and telling him to shut up every time he started to bubble over - he's now absolutely rock solid, and doesn't really need to be led anywhere - he brings himself in and turns himself out with no headcollar on if I can't be bothered to put one on him!
No-one's perfect, but if you learn something from every horse you handle, you'll get there!
budatiger
Well-Known Member
OP did you do any work with the Dually to teach the horse the idea of pressure/release? Is it correctly fitted? They have to be fitted snug to work effectively and the handler must understand the concept behind them. They are a really effective tool...when used correctly and appropriately. Useless, and potentially quite damaging to the horse if not.
Dubsie
Well-Known Member
I always lead with the expectation the horse will stay by my side and not be silly, the rope is slack if the head is down and the horse is moving forward. Any variation and the slack is taken up by me, pressure released when doing as I ask. If horse is looking at something else and walks sideways into me (as she does, she can be a right idiot about the silliest of things, and she can also grow ridiculously tall) then an elbow sharply appears to protect my space. I expect complete manners at gates, we turn and close/lock them as required, ditto restoring power to the electric fence. No grass may be consumed, even though the mowed paths are lush and very tempting, eating is not permitted when we are on the move. We do not rush, we do not hang about, everything is the same pace every time so the routine is identical. I always wear gloves, and food is never in the stable.