Arguments for NOT gelding

Is this the one with unverified breeding?
If so you will not be able to get him, or any foals, registered with a reputable organisation. I would cut this winter and enjoy a nice gelding.
 
not read all the posts but know some lovely, well mannered colts and stallions, (and some rude geldings too). I agree with posts recommending to keep entire until graded, depending on outcoe there take the decision then.

Overbreeding is bad, but there is still a need for a diverse group of breeding stock to be sensibly bred from.
 
One of mine wasn't cut til he was 9, and covered a fair few mares before then. He's the most sensible horse on the yard - the one you can always rely on to get on with anything, behave in all situations, and generally be a little star.

I think you should leave him, and as others have said, take him to a grading and see what they say.
 
No firm view either way on this.If you are at Uni all day and have a long commute to add to that ,who deals with any horse related problems that may occur in your absence? If your father feels obliged to,as its his farm, maybe he's looking at it from this perspective? I hope that's not his lawn your colts running over !!! . Good luck with him, hope it works out for you.
 
We have two on my instructors yard, one a Luso one a NF both have covered in the past the NF is still an active stallion and they are both the easiest horses on the yard to handle don't tar them all with the bad brush!!!! OP echo what others have said keep the goolies get him graded if he fails them snip snip. I agree with your opinion that it would be beneficial for him to stay entire for the next couple of years for growth
 
Ah, if s4sugar is correct and he has unverified breeding that puts a whole different light on things. I would never breed from him, regardless of how good he is as I insist on all mine being registered with appropriate breed society and having fully documented ancestry to at least 5 generations. Having said that not everyone feels the same so that choice would have to be yours but in my experience attracting mares and selling youngstock would be more difficult.
I agree that allowing a stallion to learn what it's all about and then only giving him a couple of mares a year is not ideal.
I do still feel that he would benefit from the crown jewels for a bit longer though to allow him to mature well. I'm not a big fan of using lots of feed for youngstock to increase their development.
 
OP, I find myself in a similar situation to you.

My 5 month old colt looks (to me) pretty special and is very fashionably bred (although no crest yet LOL). I however KNOW I don't have the time or horsemanship to deal with a coltish youngster (already mounting him mum and my other nursing mum both of whom quite willing GAH).

So I've asked in breeding whether anybody can suggest a producer for him - hopefully to go to BEF futurity as yearling next year. Having looked at the picture only of the gradings, mine is defo 'further on' than most of the foals although I can't compare movement etc without seeing vids. Obviously this will be expensive but I bred him so I have to take the responsibility.

I wouldn't want him entire but he's not for the likes of me anyhow. I think you have to take off the rose tinted specs and get him independently assessed.

PS alot of farmers (like my OH) can instantly see a champion animal whether it be a bull, tup or a colt. Something else to consider.
 
s4gar - he was but its all being sorted now, so he'll have full breeding both sides :D If it all falls flat then I'll leave him to mature and geld him at 3.

floradora - There are a few people I can ring to help, of course yes, my dad would be one, but I dont expect him to be first in command with the horses whilst Im not there. I have a lovely lady I know who would help and also my boyfriend/exboyfriend (we're somewhere in between that - I guess it would be a 'its complicated' on facebook!) who I know would help no matter what.

I think my biggest grievance in all this is not the leaving so he can go to stud more the fact I want to see him matured to his fullest. I had my little sec A jingly janglies cut off at 18 months and I do regret not leaving him longer as he would have filled out so much better - he looks more sec b than sec a :(

Yes it would be almost fairy tale to turn up at shows on this big, buckskin stallion, people turning to look as he walks in with real presence and great big manhood - but I am I very realistic to what is possible and what isnt and if it wont be then I shall arrive on my big gelding which people will still turn and look at ;)

Landwise - not a problem, Ive got summer grazing that I havent even used all of it so can leave the hardier good doer mare and sec A down to winter there and bring colt and other warmblood gelding back home to the stables and muddy winter turnout. <--- meant to say summer and winter are about half a mile down the road from each other :)
 
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scarymare said:
PS alot of farmers (like my OH) can instantly see a champion animal whether it be a bull, tup or a colt. Something else to consider.
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Oooh dad KNOWS he is special - he will openly admit that, he even tells me I have a good eye and a great way with the horses - dont know if I would agree with him totally on that one!! lol
 
How are you sorting out the parentage -have you done DNA as I don't think that stud knew which mare was covered by which stallion.
 
Why not just push back that your vet recommended leaving your colt till he was 3 before gelding? Unless his behaviour changes.
 
s4sugar said:
How are you sorting out the parentage -have you done DNA as I don't think that stud knew which mare was covered by which stallion.
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Oh no - that must be someone else, there was only 1 stallion, there was a problem with passports as the mares got lost when the passport was done.

Or are you thinking of my Kinsky?? - I have both his dam and sire on the passport but after his papers from the breeder who Ive managed to get in contact with.
 
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WoopsiiD said:
I had a mare with a big neck, she was a crap stallion!
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:D LMAO


Diluteherd, I think that your argument should be that as long as he is no trouble then he can keep his jewels - and then work VERY hard to ensure that he has impeccable manners ;) You need to keep your Father on your side.

I have the impression that intend breeding him to your own mare/s firstly. This is also a bargaining chip, at the right time put him on a mare and let him prove himself, I know the progeny from just one mare isn't going to tell you a lot but if it is good it may sweeten up Papa.
 
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christine48 said:
I'd post this in breeding there are more experts on this subject in there. To be honest I'd probably geld him, stallions have to lead a lonely life can't be turned out with others etc.
His blood lines wouldn't be the most fashionable either.
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:) Ah, now here I have to stick my oar in, no offence, and I have no wish to teach anyone how to suck eggs, this is merely my opinion, which I think is relevant to the question in point :):):)

2 points:

a) Lonely life...really? Not so. As a colt he is probably currently out with other colts/geldings and there is no reason why he can't have a gelding or mare companion. My own stallion often has mares living with him, or youngsters. Yes, he has his own paddock, with a walkway between the next paddock -which also has a stallion in it - but both stallions can see the entire yard and every horse on the place. They aren't lonely or miserable. It isn't difficult to create a lifestyle where a horse is not isolated.

b) Fashionable lines go in waves.
It takes two to make a foal. 50% is the mare too.
If this horse turns out good enough then people will want to use him and then those unfashionable lines will become fashionable.
I don't think fashion is a good argument at all, fashionably bred horses are just as capable of producing 'mediocre' as any others. Judge the horse that stands infront of you not merely his ancestry.:)
 
diluteherd said:
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*Watch this space soon for a massive rant - I would not put it past my dad to arrange for him to be gelded behind my back - even though I bought him and I insure him and he is my horse!*
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surely the vet has to have permission from the OWNER before they can castrate a horse so why not ask them to make a prominent note on your horse's record that they need your express permission?
 
@ diluteherd.

We also have a colt (2 years 5 months) which we are keeping entire for as long as possible.

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He was not yet 2 when these photos were taken.
This is his breeding -
http://www.horsetelex.nl//horses/pedigree/546241

This wasn't the plan when he was born but came about through comments from people who knew what they were talking about. They didn't know us from Adam so weren't just trying to be polite.
He will be going to a stallion grading (either end of this year or next) but it is not our intention to use him as a stud. He was bred for dressage and if he happens to get through the grading then that is a plus.
Totilas wasn't gelded and originally failed the stallion grading, he was accepted by the KWPN studbook as a breeding stallion after performing. Same is true for Uthopia.

Every horse has its own character and I find that a lot of people bunch all stallions into the dangerous group purely because they are stallions.
Our colt is more sensible and better natured than a lot of geldings and mares I know and have seen. He has been handled and disciplined since birth.
I'm not saying that he may never be gelded. We don't know what the future holds for him.

We also feel that he is developing better left ungelded and we are lucky enough to have facilities available to let him live like a horse. He is turned out for at least 12 hours a day with 4 geldings and they play for hours. He also always has bite and kick marks from this but he is being allowed a normal life.

If you have the facilities and knowledge then I would keep him entire, he will benefit from it. There have been some good arguments on here to help you but perhaps you can add the facts about Totilas and Uthopia into the mix to help, after all they are now both worth millions!
 
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Can't quote as on phone but :

"My own stallion often has mares living with him, or youngsters. Yes, he has his own paddock, with a walkway between the next paddock -which also has a stallion in it - but both stallions can see the entire yard and every horse on the place."

IMO there is a large, large difference between two horses being able to see each other, and two horses that can have a canter around together, groom each other, and swish the flies off one another. I see seperating horses so they can see each other but not touch each other a bit like waving sweets in front of a child but not letting him have any.
 
Freddies Gal I totally understand where you're coming from and I question my choice for my mare on occasion so far as she is on her own with others adjacent, and i do worry she misses out on some social aspects which I'm sure she does but i have seen her groom over the fence, she often sleeps during the day by the other horses while they're dozing as a group and play over the fence with others and play races up and down. Now I'm not saying this is equal to being turned out with others but just demonstrating the point that she can still have a social time in the field whilst being 'on her own'
 
OP get him graded asap to see if he has any serious potential. It is very difficult for us to crit him in moving photos - if you get him to stand up square we might have more of an idea as to how he is put together.

If your only argument for not gelding is it will help him develop - sorry I do not agree. My boy was cut whilst still on his mum and it has made absolutely no difference whatsoever to his development and he came from one of the top welsh studs, so I would assume they know what they are talking about.

Comments on late cut boys being of the same temperament as early cut boys is also debatable. I know several boys who were cut late due to top notch breeding and they are all sex pests when it comes to mares in or out of season!

Look - it is your colt, your land, your decision.
 
Well from a purely looks point of view he is an absolute stunner! If it is private land and there is no chance of accidental coverings etc I don't see why you shouldn't wait a while :-)
 
I propose to keep my colt entire he is 15 months, he was a surprise arrival, father unknown, he is well behaved, regularly put in his place by the miniature Shetlands, he has been shown inhand and behaved like a pro, he will be gelded at 3 and not used for breeding, my reasons for keeping him entire is that he is a stunning chap (appreciate I am bias) but feel that he will develop into something quite special. I bought a 3 year old stallion 20 plus years ago and had to have him gelded, because he was physically more mature than his counterparts he stood out from the rest and did exceptionally well in showing classes – providing the colt is manageable I am pro keeping him entire as long as you see fit.
 
I would be having a chat with your dad, explaining that he needs to be given every chance to mature, that you have the experience, and that no one else needs to handle him so it is your problem. Make clear if he becomes difficult, that he will be gelded earlier.
Then go round and tell your brothers girlfriend to screw her ********** neck in and stop stirring. TBH it would make my blood boil to have someone who thinks its too much hassle to have a horse when you work full time interfering and causing trouble with my family and horses.
 
FreddiesGal said:
Can't quote as on phone but :

"My own stallion often has mares living with him, or youngsters. Yes, he has his own paddock, with a walkway between the next paddock -which also has a stallion in it - but both stallions can see the entire yard and every horse on the place."

IMO there is a large, large difference between two horses being able to see each other, and two horses that can have a canter around together, groom each other, and swish the flies off one another. I see seperating horses so they can see each other but not touch each other a bit like waving sweets in front of a child QUOTE]

Ummmm, please read, and inwardly digest, the wording I have underlined :rolleyes:

Teaching his babies to work cattle:
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Unless the horse is exceptional in every single way, then my opinion is there are none.

With respect, Enfys, the majority of stallions (certainly here and in Europe) aren't quite as lucky as yours!
 
Wow,this thread is running! Just popped back in to see 'what's occurring' and have to say Enfys,fab photos,especially the 2nd and love the winter woollies! :)
 
Op the best argument I think of to persuade your dad would be to get a very experianced warm blood stallion expert to come and look at him and give their opinion
If they say he's good enough I would present your dad with a plan detailing how you would manage him double fenced paddocks and all that stuff and how you would produce him when he's older.
That's only things I think that might make a difference.
It if however your dads land and if he won't agree you will have to comply or find him somewhere else to live
 
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