Arthritis

[Horsekaren]

We are 3 months post hock injections and i am starting to see a few little signs that they are playing up again (nowhere near as extreme as before) He isnt sore over his back but has started to do the odd hoppy gate when asked to trot intermittently. He was doing so well until i put him on a bute trail ( he hasnt shown any signs of discomfort but i wanted to try him on it to see if it helped with his sleeping disorder). I didnt notice any difference until a week after he came off the bute trail, he was hoppy (that odd tranter like gate and bit lack luster)

He doesn't do this hoppy gate when on the lunge (i havnt been lunging!) but he got all silly on the weekend and i had to dismount as my nerves got to much, i sent him around in a circle both ways and as he was all fired up he looked to be moving great.

I am keeping a close eye on things and have taken him back to walk, halt work for the time being. My instructor came on the weekend and said he doesnt look to be lame or struggling which i believed as he didnt show any signs, plus we only did a few strides of trot at a time. I had sent her a video of the ride before which i thought wasnt right and she agreed he looked lame, then he was ok 5 days later.

My question is what would the next step be if he starts to get worse. would i just get his hocks re injected or would i perhaps look at a nerve block to be sure the hocks are the issue? are there other alternatives to injections? I know my vet is the person to talk to but i like to hear other peoples experiences as injecting every 3 months wont be right.


I am a bit disappointing that 3 months on a few cracks are appearing, im not sure if a 2nd load of injections would last longer or even be less. or what else there is to try. The insurance claim has now been open since June so i have about 9 months and 3.5k left ish.

Has anyone gone through the motions with this and found injections didn't really help but something else did? He is only 10 and the Xrays show early signs of changes

from my understanding i need to keep working him as if he is going to go lame i can then show the vets on a work up but an intermittent owiee moment isnt enough. Does anyone have a rough idea how much it costs to nerve block hocks? for my peace of mind on wondering if things do go down hill if this might be a good thing to try so we know for sure if it is the hocks of if there is something else bothering him.

his life style at present is
-out 24/7
-ridden 3-4 times a week (30 - 40mins of correct walk with lots of halts, stretches, leg yield, shoulder in and a few burst of trot)
- one of the ridden times a week is a hack, anything from 10 -30 mins in a straight lines in walk only, with lots of halts, whilst we build up confidence
-he seems happy in himself and tries his heart out
-he isnt clipped and has a LW rug just to try and keep him a little bit warmer in all this changeable weather

Feed (this has got a bit silly with the supplements )
- 1 scoop spiller conditioning fibre
- 1 Equiflex joint supplement containing the below
Glucosamine HCl5000mgChondroitin Sulphate1000mgManganese Ascorbate260mgVitamin C170mgElemental Manganese34mg
-1 table spoon Boswiella
-1 table spoon MSM
-1 table spoon of Turmaric (for respiratory and joints)
-1 scoop of airways by equine america
-1 tablespoon of salt
-10mg of grazezy (new trail)

Ridden in solutions saddle which is being checked on Sunday.
Rider has many issues with blocking and interfering with the horse to much


From what i understand this condition will have good and bad days but im just interested on what has worked for others. I have included Xrays and owie moments below

 

[ester]

3 months duration is not unusual for steroid injections TBH.

 

[ihatework]

If he’s been consistently good post injection until now then you may well have your answer, but yes probably worth blocking out the hocks to confirm.

On the assumption it is hock arthritis and you are having short response times to steroids I’d ask your vet about arthramid in the joint and IM Cartrophen. Honestly I’d not bother with all those supplements, boswalia at most. Then just use bute as and when needed (he scored clear for ulcers if I remember correctly? Just flagging the timing coincidence post bute)

 

[TotalMadgeness]

Mine was the same (only lasted 3 months) so please don't be disheartened! Your vet might want to try a second set of injections or start him on bute/danilon. Good luck!

 

[Horsekaren]

Yes he has been doing consistently really good before the bute. He was scoped for Ulcers over a year ago but he was clear. Because he is so happy in himself i wouldn't be thinking ulcers, he isnt shy in letting me know when he is upset

Thank you i will google these and keep these in mind when i speak to my vet.

If he was needing some form of bute/ danilon a day would that be a bad idea where he is only 10 so it would be long term?

Also in terms of soley looking at the hocks, if we keep treating this with results and say for example next or 5 years late he comes down with a ligament injury or something in his hind legs because he has arthritis would the entire leg be excluded?

 

[LaurenBay]

Steroids only lasted around 3 months for me also.
So second time I went for Steroids again, but this time along side a Tildren drip. Unfortunately this only lasted 2 months or so.

Have you tired Cartophen?

 

[Horsekaren]

Is cartophen used along side injections?

Has anyone managed to manage to condition well for years ?

Can these sorts of treatments make the bones fuse so he improves long term?

 

[BallyRoanBaubles]

Sorry to jump on your post HK, but I was wondering if anyone's suggestions above have worked for stifle arthritis?

 

[ihatework]

Is cartophen used along side injections?

Has anyone managed to manage to condition well for years ?

Can these sorts of treatments make the bones fuse so he improves long term?

Oh gosh yes, horses up and down the country are leading good working lives with hock arthritis. The good thing (for want of a better word) is you now have a clear symptom to be guided by ... for some horses it’s less obvious when they are struggling.

Hocks are funny though because the X-ray seriousness doesn’t always seem to directly correlate with the level of pain/lameness - I.e some horses with mild changes struggle disproportionately.

For now you can only deal with what is in front of you - a ligament injury in 5 years time really shouldn’t be on the radar - trying to keep the horse comfortable and working for the next 5 years is the important bit!

If the joint fused it would certainly help, but not all do.

So for me it’s all about a combination of correct work, on suitable surfaces with the best joint support you can afford (for me this is injectables) and added pain relief where needed.

 

[LaurenBay]

It is injections you administer yourself. It is more of a maintenance rather then treatment, but I know many people who swear by it.

If you want to fuse the bones, there are options for this, but I'd urge you to do your research and have a conversation with your vet. Mine did have the injections to fuse the bones, unfortunately did not work for us. There is also a much more complicated surgery option.

I'd also speak with your vet regarding Athramid as I hear good things about that.

 

[Firefly9410]

Do not worry about long term bute. If he is not comfortable he has no life anyway. 5yrs pain free on bute is worth more than 10yrs struggling without it.

 

[V&F]

I went ahead with the hock fusion surgery for my boys hock (near side).

The osphos injection didn’t work for us unfortunately so my vets suggested doing the surgery.

It cost just over £3500 to have done, not sure if has worked yet (op was done in August), but may be something to consider if you have the money in the insurance pot.

The surgeon said there’s 80% chance of being rideable again (here’s hoping!)

I’ve attached an X-ray of my ponies hock when he was at his worse lameness wise (may time), not sure if that’s of any help!

 

[Horsekaren]

I went ahead with the hock fusion surgery for my boys hock (near side).

The osphos injection didn’t work for us unfortunately so my vets suggested doing the surgery.

It cost just over £3500 to have done, not sure if has worked yet (op was done in August), but may be something to consider if you have the money in the insurance pot.

The surgeon said there’s 80% chance of being rideable again (here’s hoping!)

I’ve attached an X-ray of my ponies hock when he was at his worse lameness wise (may time), not sure if that’s of any help! View attachment 37413

This isnt something i have considered because my horse really doesnt do well on box rest. out of curiosity how long is the rest for this? did you just have one leg done? how long is the rehab expected to be?

 

[V&F]

This isnt something i have considered because my horse really doesnt do well on box rest. out of curiosity how long is the rest for this? did you just have one leg done? how long is the rehab expected to be?

He was at the horspital for a week, box rest with in hand grazing for 2 weeks, then box rest with 2 x 5-10 min in hand walks for another 2 weeks. Then small paddock turnout for a month.

We have a vets appt tomorrow to check all is going ok, she’s going to see him trot up etc. Then if she feels happy with progress he can go back to normal paddock turnout.

The surgeon said it can take up to 6 months to settle down and see if it was a success or not

Yes he only had the one hock done, they said his other hock was fine

 

[Julia0803]

My boy had the Polyacrylamide gel (arthramid) in September.

It was £700ish for both hocks.

He hasn’t had his 6 week review yet.... but I think it’s helped. (He was bilaterally 1/10 - 2/10 lame on it according to vet but I only realised there was an issue due to reluctance to pick up the right canter lead)

Trimmer came last week and she thought he was moving much better.

Vet suggested this over steroids partly for laminitis risk but also steroids don’t last as long- in theory this is supposed to last two years +.

It might be worth asking your vet about it.

 

[Horsekaren]

My boy had the Polyacrylamide gel (arthramid) in September.

It was £700ish for both hocks.

He hasn’t had his 6 week review yet.... but I think it’s helped. (He was bilaterally 1/10 - 2/10 lame on it according to vet but I only realised there was an issue due to reluctance to pick up the right canter lead)

Trimmer came last week and she thought he was moving much better.

Vet suggested this over steroids partly for laminitis risk but also steroids don’t last as long- in theory this is supposed to last two years +.

It might be worth asking your vet about it.

Thanks, its on my list to mention. was the process similar to the steroids, ie injection and a day or two of box rest? Fingers crossed it does last you two year!

 

[Horsekaren]

Hocks are funny though because the X-ray seriousness doesn’t always seem to directly correlate with the level of pain/lameness - I.e some horses with mild changes struggle disproportionately.

This is what i needed to hear. I keep worrying if it isnt his hocks and there is something else as the changes are mild. But yes! just because it doesn't look much on an xray doesn't me it isn't incredibly painful. Ill have another access of things on the weekend and if im sure that they are playing up i will call the vet out again.
Agreed, i am sort of pleased that he now has a clear tell that i can feel.

 

[indie1282]

I've said it before but I would get this horse hacking. Imo this horse doesn't look happy in the school and working him on a surface will not be helping. I would not ride him in the school for now.

If you are too nervous to hack then long line or walk him in hand.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

If he’s been consistently good post injection until now then you may well have your answer, but yes probably worth blocking out the hocks to confirm.

On the assumption it is hock arthritis and you are having short response times to steroids I’d ask your vet about arthramid in the joint and IM Cartrophen. Honestly I’d not bother with all those supplements, boswalia at most. Then just use bute as and when needed (he scored clear for ulcers if I remember correctly? Just flagging the timing coincidence post bute)

This would be my suggestion.

A friendsnwelsh had Arthrimed last year I think, or the year before and she has has so much improvement in her.
She was start of changes in her hocks too.

 

[Red-1]

I do think straight line walking is the way to go, so hacking or walking on the road in hand.

I do know several horses who have had arthritic hocks, but even after treatment they would break again if worked on the school. Those who were firstly rested then kept hacking stayed sound for many years.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Looking at those x-rays.. the arthritis doesn't look to bad? Nothing like my gelding, and my vet said his wasn't bad. He wasn't lame or showing any issue but was noticed on x-ray. Please correct me if I'm wrong anyone.

I'd go for nerve blocks, to confirm the hocks are the issue.. don't re steriod 3 months later. I also think he needs to be hacking more 3 times a week and one day in the school, as above straight lines are so much better for hocks especially circles are bad.

Did the vet look at his neck?

 

[ester]

TBH I'd expect the vets to consider the steroids to be diagnostic.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

TBH I'd expect the vets to consider the steroids to be diagnostic.

I was expecting his x-rays to look worse considering how symptoms.. would make me wonder if something else is underlying.

Did they look into his suspensorys OP? As I believe steriods and nerve blocking into the hock can provisionally block the suspensories slightly too (and was told this by my vet when we nerve blocked, scan then showed bad suspensory and clear hocks) and would explain why he struggles on a surface.

 

[tristar]

i would nerve block to isolate and diagnose, i`d give up too many supplements and go for a good glug of good old fashioned linseed oil, been around a long time and does all mine the world of good, cartrophen is very good i believe, but never need it due to lots oil in the diet!

if i had a horse with hind end issues i would make sure it was well warm, quarters by rugging, and hocks, legs etc by bandaging and if it was poss i would bring in at night on a real good bed, two things i know work and cost very little are warmth and rest, oh, and oil in the diet, lubrication ,it works its way into the system

i certainly would leave out in the damp at night, anyone with an achy knee will tell how the damp causes the ache to start

 

[Julia0803]

It was 48hrs box rest ideally. Although the vet did say if he couldn’t don’t worry too much.

It was then 10 days walk hacks for 20/30 min, then bring back to work slowly. He said unlike steroids the improvement isn’t near instant but happens over several weeks. He said they used to review at 4 weeks but now no longer review until at least 6 weeks as understandably owners would get upset at 4 week review assuming it hadn’t worked when actually it was just too early.

My boy has been mainly hacking since, possibly over cautious, but I thought there’s no harm in doing lots of hacking to start with and introducing the school slowly. We had our first low key lesson last week and he felt great, so fingers crossed.