Asking an owner to remove their horses back shoes.. and sods law. LONG

RachelFerd

RachelFerd

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This is related to the fact that my mare has just had a major op to remove an infected bone chip caused by a kick from a paddock mate... as many of you already know.

YO has promised to ask the owner of the horse who DEFINITELY kicked my mare, and probably kicked her three year old to take the back shoes off her mare. We are on grass livery, and the herd is small (4 horses) ... until the introduction of her mare there had been no recent major injuries other than the standard nicks and scrapes that horses will get.

The mare in question is very dominant - about food and about keeping certain horses away from other horses too. When she originally arrived at the yard she was not shod, and she was being separated from a gelding she had been turned out exclusively with for several years. However, at some point down the line, the horse has been shod all round - although it is not really in any work, it is a thoroughbred and don't think it has the best feet.. probably not to cope with our stony, hilly ground. Not sure how the owner will react to being asked to get the back shoes off it - am I over-reacting to say I don't want my mare back out there with that horse unless it has them off ? (and preferably not out with that horse at all...
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I know horses will be horses, but it's a bit much when we have 2 injured horses clocking up thousands and thousands of pounds of vets bills between them. Mine will probably reach the £5k insurance limit, and the other isn't miles away.

But the sods law is that the aggressive horse is a paddock ornament that has no work to do. My horse is a talented youngster, ridden every day, and intended to event (ie needs to be 100% sound) ... and I horsekeep on a tight budget and am going to be badly affected by the transport, hospitalization and insurance excess costs.

Nevermind the fact that the 3yo was intended to be for the show ring - has already placed at county shows in hand, and will now have massive scarring across the knee...

Life is just not fair is it. The owners of the agressive horse have apologized for the incident with my horse, although they are not yet aware that it has had to undergo surgery... they are nice people, just I feel they aren't aware of the levels of damage that have gone on?
 
It's difficult, I can see from your point of view but also from the other owners.
If you turn horses out together with back shoes on then that is the risk you take at the end of the day (I'm not judging btw, as all mine are turned out in groups).
I suppose it is up to the YO to make suitable turnout provision for this kicker in the event owner doesn't wish to take back shoes off.
 
thats the thing isn't it... I did accept the risk of turning my horse out in a group, but when I turned mine out, I had been assured all the other horses were settled and not confrontational (which was true, and mine hasn't been either during that time)

If it was *my* horse that was kicking, I know I wouldn't be able to take the back shoes off, as she is in work and has poor feet... but I would endeavour to move yards to somewhere that could provide individual turnout, and accept that it was my responsibility to do that.

There is no real possibility of turning the agressive mare out alone though, as she stresses without company... and there is also no real way of dividing the grass livery fields without creating further issues... the part/full liveries have the option of individual turnout, but obviously it is going to be more expensive to put the mare on part or full.
 
It is difficult. I am the owner of a very dominant mare who will kick. She gets turned out alone for that reason. Is there no way the YO can out the mare on it's own. TBH, I wouldn't be very happy if someone asked me to take my mare's back shoes off.
 
If the YO can't sort something out for the other mare, and the owner isn't willing to remove back shoes, and YO decides not to give other owner notice, I think you have to decide whether or not you take the risk. If not, then you'll have to find somewhere which does to individual TO I guess. Horrible situation,. but one in which the YO has the upper hand and you can only vote with your feet if the outcome isn't what you want.

Fingers v firmly crossed for Tia BTW, I hope she recovers quickly.
 
Tough one... but TBH I think this is YO's responsibility and I would expect her to sort out something for the aggressive horse.
 
I don't think there is enough land to put any of the grass liveries out alone... certainly not during the winter.. probably possible in the summer.

I guess if it was mine, I would be so mortified to have had a horse cause so much damage... I would feel it would be my responsibility to make sure it only goes out alone. But maybe that's just me.. and it is a sore topic right now, obviously, with my horse having a very much unknown prognosis right now...
 
I've got my youngster on grass livery at the moment, and we aren't allowed hind shoes in the grass livery field, for exactly those reasons. It caused LOADS of problems with some of the liveries that came in, knowing the rules full well, but still tried to sneak their horses in with hind shoes on??!! I never understood why they moved in if the stated rules didn't suit them, but they were asked to leave...
Nightmare position for you to be in tho- i think personally I'd be looking to move the one on grass livery elsewhere if the YO isn't prepared to make changes- exactly as you say, turning them out in a group is risky enough, without one of them being a kicker.
I hope the recovery goes well.
 
i looked around and found a yard where I could have individual turnout for exactly this reason. Daisy is actually excellent in a herd with other horses but other owners were complaining that she was being aggressive at the gate when they were taking their horses out. TBH I think the owners who complained were just abit novicey and had no idea how to shoo her away but it all got very unpleasant so we looked around and moved to a yard that met our needs rather than causing stres and upset for us and her. i would say that the owners of the kicker need to move to a yard where they can have individual turnout.
 
i know Lesley is really mortified about it, feels really really bad and has been asking about tia and going to see her every day shes been up, i don't think she'll have a problem with taking her shoes off
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I think she might have alreay have been asked though
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that's alright - I know she's really nice, i'm just panicing away to myself. Sure it will all get sorted out... just not looking forward to months and months of box rest
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Im sure it'll be fine, and seems plenty of people on here have had the same thing happen and have been back to full work soon enough
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Id have thought, if shes on box rest for a month or so, as those two are only here temporarily they may not be here when she goes out?

xx
 
I think it's minimum 6 weeks in, from what the vets were saying today... presuming no major complications. Bit of a worry, as I know the clipping stable is booked from mid january.... what with the filly being in as well, could be a bit of an issue. Maybe building a garden shed to keep her in??

It's also obviously all very bad timing with being made redundant too... and now my cat seems a bit sick....
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I do actually like having them out in small groups though, and do think it is nicer for them - on the proviso that they aren't attacking each other. Individual turnout for 24/7 - 365 grass livery is a real rarity too.
 
TBH if another livery complained about her horse being kicked by my horse and some one asked me to remove my horses shoes when I wasnt sure if its feet would cope then I would tell you no, in no uncertain terms.

You cannot force another livery to remove their horses shoes. No-one has the authority to do that not even your YO.

Something will just have to be done to separate horses into more compatable groups.

We all run the rick of kicking when we turn horses out together. I was a groom at a yard for ten years and the amount of kicks, bites and general bullying that went on from a human point of view was horrendous but these are horses and thats how their society works.

Nikki xxx
 
i would say it would be better if the horse was out on its own fenced off area.even shoesless feet can break bones.
i certainly wouldnt be turning my mares out with anything that kicks, i would rather mine was out on its own!ESP at this time of year when there isnt much grass and they scrap more anyway as they are bored or fighting over hay(they always want to same pile or net)
i would say it you are happy for horse to be out without back shoes you could say this is an optionm-otherwise horse is on its own. No-one can make her take the shoes off.although as its not in work i dont see a reason why not...
 
I'm really sorry your has been kicked, but the only solution is indivduals paddocks really.......
I've been on receiving end of my talented horse being kicked in hock and THEN my little horse kick my other big horse in hock (GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR...........)
Horses will be horses............. tis pack thing
My horse which kicked in field is the most soft well manner horse you've ever meet BUT he has his moments in field which have to be seen to be believed!!
I seen him jump electric tape (linked to mains) BITE my other horse and then cheeky little toad jumps back and laughs!!!!
 
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