Asking my horse to lower his head?

[Flibble]

Could I have some suggestion n how to get Drifter to lower his head.

He tends to have a high head carriage mostly because he is gawping at stuff.

I was told to close my hands and legs and wait for him to telax his jaw but either I am doing it all wrong or ? He just opens his mouth and crossed his jaw. I dont want to start pulling or see sawing I want to do it right but he does seem to just set his jaw when you put pressure on the reins. He is currently ridden in a simple loose ring snaffle. Occasionally when I just think sod it and sit like that for ages he will relax and drop his head but only for seconds and when I relax my hands and ask him to move forward its straight up again.

 

[scotsmare]

If his neck muscles are upside down he's going to find it difficult. I've got *no* idea what you're like as a rider (no offence meant

so difficult to say what you're doing right / wrong.

As a means of helping ponio though it might be worth seeing if you can borrow a harbridge to see if he gets the idea of carrying himself from that.

 

[vieshot]

ive always found the see-saw effect to work the best lol. Not pulling on his head but just continuosly asking down each rein while ensuring to keep your legs on.

 

[xnaughtybutnicex]

closing hands wont help i dont think, try opening them every few strides.

 

[xnaughtybutnicex]

or opening inside hand on a circle.

 

[helenhorse]

we have a warmblood like that, what we did is lunge her in relativly loose side reins to relax her and get the steam out of her for about 20 mins or so, it will be different for your horse and then i worked her on a 20/15 m circle/s and worked her into a rythm by giving and taking my inside rein but also supporting her with my outside rein and leg and lowering both my hands very gently and opening them. keeping a very relaxed, cool seet and rising slowly and confidently. after about 20 mins of looking at everything, she should have settled down and start to concentrate. I know what you mean by what you said, they take their head down and it comes right back up like a yoyo, when she does drop her head say good girl in a high slurrd way like 'goooood girrl' and when she brings it back up just v.gently and subtly( just so that she can feel it) lock your hands low so when she feels the resisting contact she will move away from it and lower her head again, and then you can re give the reins so that she works out that its much easier and more comfortable to lower her head away from the resistance. It will take a very long time as i have worked out, but i got there in the end and so will you!
good luck

 

[Flibble]

No offence taken I am a better rider than a lot of people and a worse rider than a lot of other people. Thats why I am determined not to do the wrong thing.

 

[Janah]

I had this problem with my boy when I got him. Not gawping, just used to being ridden on his mouth. He had huge muscle under his neck and no topline. I hacked a lot and got him to relax that way. When I started schooling in earnest I used a bungee. He immediately went into an outline. I also found short periods on the lunge in a pessoa helped enormously. He still sticks his head in the air on the odd occasion and I hack in a running martingale which only comes into use if he really pushes the boundaries. He used to stick his head in the air and p*ss off with me smacked me in the face with his head several times. I also found a drop noseband more effective than a flash. I don't use either now, just a plain cavesson.

Jane

 

[Flibble]

I fancy a drop noseband but he has a wart in the wrong place that is being treated. Thanks for all your suggestions I will read them to him. I must admit I am a firm believer in the Good Boy voice and the tickle obn the withers as a reward.

I am also haveing the saddle fitter on wednesday in case there are saddle issues and as soon as that is doen will get the back lady out.

One of my issues is that I dont like the suggestions (not here I might add) of Cranking nosebands too tight hes only five. Some of his reactions suggest to me that whilst not specifically cruel he has been handled a bit rough and ready in the past. Ie if you bring your hand up to his head too fast he grows 6 feet.

 

[Janah]

Artyannie, you sound just like me. I hate using more tack than is necessary. A good way to get their heads down, I'd forgotten that in my previous post though I use it a lot, is to run one hand down the neck with the rein still in your hand. It does two things, makes the rider 'let go' and also does make the horse lower the head. I do this on hacks if he is unsure about anything also I scratch just by the withers instead of patting him.

Jane

 

[destiny11]

With my young girly I have to do loads of lateral work, especially on circles, making my circles smaller and larger by moving her over.
When she is listening to my leg sufficiently I then work on lots of circles, transitions. Always keep a nice contact on the outside rein, giving with the inside. Using my inside leg to make her bend around my leg and outside to keep her from drifting. She soon listens, will drop into a nice outline and works nicely.

 

[Shilasdair]

You are going to hate me, but you are thinking of it back to front. To work properly, horses have to engage their hindquarters, by transferring weight from their forehands (they normally carry approx 60% of bodyweight on their front legs) onto their quarters, by flexing the hocks more and stepping under themselves.
You could work him on the lunge, walking with quite loose side reins to warm him up, then tightening them a little, and working him in trot so he finds his own contact.
In ridden work, resist the temptation to squeeze one rein then the other, or even to take a lot of contact, instead, think about what each hind leg is doing, and work to engage them.
S

 

[destiny11]

Which I find the lateral work does for me, she has to listen and step through from behind to move across

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
Which I find the lateral work does for me, she has to listen and step through from behind to move across

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, leg yielding from the three quarter line to the track, and vice versa, or to the centre line will help engage the hind end.
Another good exercise is riding onto a 20m circle in walk or trot, then spiralling in to a 15m circle, and leg yielding him back out to the 20m circle.
Neck flexion is also quite good (especially if he has a lot of set muscle underneath in the sternocephalic and brachiocephalic muscles). For that, ride a 20m circle, then flex the neck gently a little bit inwards (keep his body on the circle curve with your legs) for half a circle, then flex it out a little for half a circle, then ride a circle with true flexion.
All of these things should encourage him to come rounder in a more true way than focussing on his head (tempting though it is - I've had moments when my eyes were fixated to the back of their skulls).
Oh, which reminds me - look up!
S

 

[Shilasdair]

Dest, your horse looks lovely.
S

 

[Twinkletoes]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Which I find the lateral work does for me, she has to listen and step through from behind to move across

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, leg yielding from the three quarter line to the track, and vice versa, or to the centre line will help engage the hind end.
Another good exercise is riding onto a 20m circle in walk or trot, then spiralling in to a 15m circle, and leg yielding him back out to the 20m circle.
Neck flexion is also quite good (especially if he has a lot of set muscle underneath in the sternocephalic and brachiocephalic muscles). For that, ride a 20m circle, then flex the neck gently a little bit inwards (keep his body on the circle curve with your legs) for half a circle, then flex it out a little for half a circle, then ride a circle with true flexion.
All of these things should encourage him to come rounder in a more true way than focussing on his head (tempting though it is - I've had moments when my eyes were fixated to the back of their skulls).
Oh, which reminds me - look up!
S

[/ QUOTE ]
Hehe Shilasdair you are so right.

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]

Hehe Shilasdair you are so right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am?!
S

 

[destiny11]

thank you very much

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
thank you very much

[/ QUOTE ]

Can I have her?
S

 

[destiny11]

looool

Well, the one on the left was sold a month ago

Her mad three year old daughter in the middle is yours if you want her

The six year old on the right is my baby

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
looool

Well, the one on the left was sold a month ago

Her mad three year old daughter in the middle is yours if you want her

The six year old on the right is my baby

[/ QUOTE ]

Ill take the one on the right, please.
S

 

[destiny11]

 

[dieseldog]

I would have a lesson with someone. I don't think you can really get very good advice without someone seeing you.

Recently with my youngster I was told to forget about the head and just worry about the horse going forwards, if you can get him balanced it will come as he gets stronger.

 

[Storminateacup]

Would agree totally with Shilasdair.
Horse needs to be working from behind.
Lots of power from the hindquarters and this comes with, time, level of fitness and ultimately relaxation into a soft, but powerful way of moving.
IMO its is never achieved by attempting to lower the head with gadgets or manually with sawing hands and other such horrors.
I also ask for gentle bit of flexion on the inside rein, so that I can see the curve of the eyeball and eyelashes.
I always find that this whole process takes a good few months of gentle training and of course I have mostly had to do it out hacking. I never ask my horse to keep his head down for the whole of a hack or schooling session as I think it must be quite a strain on the back and hind limbs.
To my way of thinking its not the only way a horse can move and still be a good balanced responsive, attentive ride. Look at all the show jumpers.
I can't stand the way so many supposedly well schooled dressage horses go round with their heads down behind the vertical, their croup high and the hind legs flying out the back. They are horrible to photograph too and look totally on the forehand, and the owners never buy a picture!

NB I used to photography equestrian events.