Asthma update

palo1

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I wanted to post about my mare's mild asthma as that experience might be useful to others. Last summer my then 5y/o was diagnosed with mild asthma following a horrible attack of wheezing, coughing and high resp rate. It was all very worrying and upsetting even though the vets could only find mild asthma after scoping etc. Steroids were given and improvement seen. No treatment needed over winter but I changed forage to haylage and took all necessary measures to reduce any kind of trigger. This Spring in April my mare had another flare up and vet offered nebulised dex and salbutamol (I had purchased a flexineb). It seemed pretty clear that she has an allergic asthma but the dex, which is usually useful in that scenario, didn't really help so we went back to using clenil modulate inhalers with nebulised salbutamol if needed. That did really help in the short term but I wanted 'more' improvement so I tried a few other things; supplements primarily including those that can be nebulised. Vet and I couldn't really understand why, with mild asthma and good respiratory hygiene, that Alw was still struggling at times. Not all the time but some days definitely worse than others. It all felt a bit 'fragile' in terms of real improvement and consistency. I got very anxious about it all and a bit despairing really but kept working through some different ideas. Alw was still only needing a small dose of medication and not every day but...

Anyhoo, thinking about things quite a lot I decided to remove things from the diet, supplements and potential stressors in 'life' and try a very simple back to basics regime so I could de-confuse myself lol. Shoes off, weight management (weight was healthy in fact but as the grass came through I reduced grazing and upped the work however and wherever possible so that weight gain would not be a worry), I took away all supplements, including vits and mins and only offered a handful of really basic chaff, damped, with some boswellia. Have kept the 'stress' as low as possible in any way I can.

That has made a huge difference; I know Boswellia can be useful for asthma and I have added MSM with a good effect too as I know that can be a really helpful thing. Each 'addition' has been carefully monitored to see what impact if any there has been; on good days and bad. Taking away all and any linseed (in the vit and min supplement mainly) has been interesting; the mare is no longer at all itchy - which I had put down to heat/sweat. I think possibly she has a negative reaction to linseed. She won't eat salt but has access to a salt lick.

No sugar beet at all - which I had been using in a very small quantity. I know sugar beet can be tricky in a number of ways but hadn't really thought it might have a respiratory impact tbh. No eucalyptus, garlic etc which are often suggested for asthma but equally can be a bit triggering.

Today, on a high pollen count day and with minimal meds, I was able to school in trot and canter for 30 minutes with loads of energy and enthusiasm and a much better recovery rate even with uphill cantering reps. It may be a false dawn but I suspect that asthma is something where you have to work away at marginal gains and I think we are doing that. I am almost afraid to post this really but I do think it might be useful for others. I think it has been helpful to take shoes off; I don't shoe unless I think it's needed but shod Alw over winter to get her fit knowing that healthy weight and exercise are better for asthmatics. I kept shoes on for the spring as I feared sore feet just as we might need to keep exercising. In fact her feet are fabulous!!

These are all small things but there has been a definite change; both in energy levels and respiratory recovery which has been the main symptom for my sweet mare. It might all go to custard again of course but I am feeling reasonably confident at the moment. Keeping everything crossed but feeling like I have some big guns in reserve now (medication) for if things get more tricky later in the summer.

ETA - I know that the main trigger is likely pollen which I can't do an awful lot about BUT I have added some pollen filtering mesh to a full fly mask in the hope that there is a reduction in exposure to pollen most of the time. Pollen mesh came from Germany!!
 

palo1

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Interesting about the Boswellia. My Connie coughs due to pollen and because he’s on Danilon for arthritis I thought I would try a high grade Boswellia instead as it is supposed to help with both. No coughing and he’s positively bouncing along.

Yes, you need the 65% stuff and that has had some interesting research done around it so I was happy to try it. Same with MSM. Glad to hear your connie is bouncing @HappyHollyDays !
 

palo1

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This is so so interesting. Can anyone give me a link to the boswellia used please?

Riaflex do powerful Boswellia here: https://www.riaflex.co.uk/products/canine-boswellia-serrata-powder/ Animalife also do a potent Boswellia here: https://www.animalife.co.uk/shop/for-horses/boswellia/ At the moment I use this one: ttps://www.ourons.co.uk/product/boswellia-serrata-65-boswellic-acids/.

Once I have worked out what really helps my mare I will try to get the Boswellia and MSM from the same source for convenience and in the hope that I can mix my own supplement. My next addition will be some GLM (Riaflex have given great advice about that too) as that is a source of the Omega 3 acids that are also shown in research to help with asthma. That is available in other supplements but they have fillers that I don't really want to use. This process feels a bit like going barefoot did 12 or so years ago tbh with having to work stuff out. Immune system issues are challenging however so I won't be surprised to be playing snakes and ladders with my mare's asthma. In the meantime however I am happy enough to do some of my own research and very carefully test things out.

ETA Vitamin C is also recommended for Asthma as that is often found to be low in horses with respiratory conditions. However if a horse is grazing fresh grass, Vit C (and E) shouldn't be an issue. Something to consider for winter though. There are deffo supplements that offer these things but not without 'other' ingredients which can make it difficult to know what helps and what doesn't.
 

ycbm

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VERY interesting Palo, thank you. I have a linseed intolerant horse, too.
.
 

palo1

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I am going to order tomorrow. Literally on last chance saloon here. Thank you ??

I wouldnn't want to raise any false hopes for horses that are really struggling @poiuytrewq but I think it is always worth stripping back to basics when you have a problem. There are some good scientific studies about the potential usefulness of Boswellia for asthma though those studies are in mice and people. There probably hasn't been the money for studies using horses but the research is really interesting. This is the study that got me thinking: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4348891/ It has graphs and stuff!! There are other studies too but this one I thought particularly clear.

MSM is a bit more tricky to evaluate but it is a common and effective anti-inflammatory and there is some interesting research around it's benefits to the lungs/respiratory system. It's pretty cheap and is in most of the 'better' quality respiratory supplements. We know that horses generally are fine with it too!

Also, I think that we either forget or are not told about how sensitive a horse's system can be/become to all sorts of compounds, including some of the things that can be helpful. Linseed is often recommended for horses with asthma because of the Omega 3s but of course if you have a horse that is super-sensitive, along with other triggers (such as pollen) that can just add to the problems. The same goes for garlic, eucalyptus, thyme etc (all of which may be in respiratory supplements and may be useful but may also cause additional problems). I have a very sensitive horse (not the asthmatic one) and struggled for years to find a balance for him; it was always about his feet really and I occasionally really thought that I would have to have him pts. BUT I had some brilliant advice - that when in trouble go completely back to basics. Time after time if need be. I got him sorted thankfully. That taught me a lot about what we assume we know about horses and it is really easy to over complicate and over treat some issues.

I wish it was easier to know what causes these immune related problems as it is really difficult to deal with them in a standard veterinary model and vets I think find it as frustrating as we do. For me though, picking away at possible ways forward helps me think clearly.
 

palo1

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Oh and just before I go to bed I have to share how absolutely INFURIATED I was to find that even really reputable companies that I have purchased from and trusted in the past have been selling Boswellia supplements that are actually very low quality. To have any impact you do actually need the higher quality stuff. Some boswellia sold as a 'straight' supplement is very, very low in the necessary compound. It can be as little as 5%....Thankfully there are companies that can provide the good stuff at a comparable price. It does make me very suspicious though of everything I buy now!!
 

poiuytrewq

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I wouldnn't want to raise any false hopes for horses that are really struggling @poiuytrewq but I think it is always worth stripping back to basics when you have a problem. There are some good scientific studies about the potential usefulness of Boswellia for asthma though those studies are in mice and people. There probably hasn't been the money for studies using horses but the research is really interesting. This is the study that got me thinking: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4348891/ It has graphs and stuff!! There are other studies too but this one I thought particularly clear.

MSM is a bit more tricky to evaluate but it is a common and effective anti-inflammatory and there is some interesting research around it's benefits to the lungs/respiratory system. It's pretty cheap and is in most of the 'better' quality respiratory supplements. We know that horses generally are fine with it too!

Also, I think that we either forget or are not told about how sensitive a horse's system can be/become to all sorts of compounds, including some of the things that can be helpful. Linseed is often recommended for horses with asthma because of the Omega 3s but of course if you have a horse that is super-sensitive, along with other triggers (such as pollen) that can just add to the problems. The same goes for garlic, eucalyptus, thyme etc (all of which may be in respiratory supplements and may be useful but may also cause additional problems). I have a very sensitive horse (not the asthmatic one) and struggled for years to find a balance for him; it was always about his feet really and I occasionally really thought that I would have to have him pts. BUT I had some brilliant advice - that when in trouble go completely back to basics. Time after time if need be. I got him sorted thankfully. That taught me a lot about what we assume we know about horses and it is really easy to over complicate and over treat some issues.

I wish it was easier to know what causes these immune related problems as it is really difficult to deal with them in a standard veterinary model and vets I think find it as frustrating as we do. For me though, picking away at possible ways forward helps me think clearly.
Aww your not don’t worry. I have totally accepted we have come to the end because he has other stuff going on. However taking him off the steroids and watching him today in the field I just thought something to help the breathing could give us more time. Atm he’s good. I accept the first sign of coughing I will make the call but anything that can prolong this happiness would be wonderful
Nb, because currently his breathing/coughing is great
 

Highmileagecob

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Very interested in any allergy threads, as my cob was diagnosed around ten years ago. His routine is similar to yours, in that all forage is basic, very little in the way of high fibre feed as that triggers faecal water, and a stable at the top of the yard away from the hay store. Equilibra balancer is a good source of omega 3, from hemp not linseed, and piriton does help on the high pollen days. The vet at the time thought his coughing was linked to his EMS. He is a good doer, and up to this year has worn a grazing muzzle 24/7, but this year his teeth are showing his age and he can't manage a muzzle. I feel caught between a rock and a hard place - at 27 he is not now able to cope with a full work load, and if he doesn't have daily exercise he gains weight, which starts the breathing issues. Walking out in hand is not safe, as he is an idiot to lead out, and bringing in during the day would mean that he is stood in full view of his field mates, which would not end well. I never thought I would hear myself say 'Roll on winter!'
 

palo1

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Also meant to say, I'm so, so pleased that Alw is doing so well. It's really hard to see them struggle and feel like nothing you do is helping them.

Thank you! I have felt really guilty and a bit silly worrying and fretting so much when realistically, her issues are mild. But she is young and I just want to do anything I can to make things better. I know her symptoms could be much worse and I understand how difficult it is when you have a horse with any veterinary issue which compromises them/us/their lifestyle so I haven't wanted to grouch too much tbh. I did want to post about the things that were helping though and again today, in potentially really difficult high pollen conditions (and everyone around us mowing too!) her respiratory rate has been normal on a hot, hilly ride with a long steep canter. That is a big improvement but I am not planning to test things to destruction!! On hot, more tricky days for her particular situation she can take it easy - I just really wanted to assess the extent of the improvement.
 

palo1

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Very interested in any allergy threads, as my cob was diagnosed around ten years ago. His routine is similar to yours, in that all forage is basic, very little in the way of high fibre feed as that triggers faecal water, and a stable at the top of the yard away from the hay store. Equilibra balancer is a good source of omega 3, from hemp not linseed, and piriton does help on the high pollen days. The vet at the time thought his coughing was linked to his EMS. He is a good doer, and up to this year has worn a grazing muzzle 24/7, but this year his teeth are showing his age and he can't manage a muzzle. I feel caught between a rock and a hard place - at 27 he is not now able to cope with a full work load, and if he doesn't have daily exercise he gains weight, which starts the breathing issues. Walking out in hand is not safe, as he is an idiot to lead out, and bringing in during the day would mean that he is stood in full view of his field mates, which would not end well. I never thought I would hear myself say 'Roll on winter!'

That is really interesting - thankyou, though I am sorry to hear that you feel a bit stuck atm. 27 is a great age and usually comes with a few management issues!! Lucky horse though to have so much care and thought from you. :)
 

palo1

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Alw loved her first xc clinic today! Hilly, twisty course and she hasn't ever schooled around anything like this before. Much liveliness generally and quite a bit of 'yee-haaa' too but no blowing, puffing or any respiratory symptoms at all. It was a nice day though - rain; which makes things easier but she was actually one of the fitter horses doing the clinic. Plenty of beans to canter up hills and jump a course. Really delighted with this!! :) :)
 

palo1

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That is fantastic. I think I might need to give boswellia a try.

I think it is very helpful and has at least some research behind it, but I would say that excluding stuff has probably been at least as important tbh. I need a longer term test really but the difference in a week or so has been surprising; even in potentially difficult weather (high pollen counts and mowing!), The Boswellia and MSM can only make a positive impact when other triggers are removed or reduced. For my horse I am trying to make marginal gains but removing anything that I can in feeds/supplements as I can't do much about pollen! This has appeared to work well so far.
 

GoldenWillow

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I'm finding this so interesting. Over the last six years I tried a lot of breathing supplements, none of which seemed to make any noticeable difference. Last year I used nothing and J only needed nebuliser every other day rather than daily and finished it in early in October, September has always been a bad trigger month for him, which had become the norm during pollen season. This year again I am feeding no supplements and so far he is fine and has not needed nebuliser at all. I'd put it down to differences in pollen year on year but we have never got to June without it flaring up, usually it's early May (I will have now jinxed this), although it has been a cold spring and summer so far.

I was more thinking that supplements are a waste of money and did nothing rather than linking them to being possible triggers but am now wondering. I had never made that link and it may be coincidence but I am generally of the opinion the simpler and more stripped down the better.
 

palo1

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I'm finding this so interesting. Over the last six years I tried a lot of breathing supplements, none of which seemed to make any noticeable difference. Last year I used nothing and J only needed nebuliser every other day rather than daily and finished it in early in October, September has always been a bad trigger month for him, which had become the norm during pollen season. This year again I am feeding no supplements and so far he is fine and has not needed nebuliser at all. I'd put it down to differences in pollen year on year but we have never got to June without it flaring up, usually it's early May (I will have now jinxed this), although it has been a cold spring and summer so far.

I was more thinking that supplements are a waste of money and did nothing rather than linking them to being possible triggers but am now wondering. I had never made that link and it may be coincidence but I am generally of the opinion the simpler and more stripped down the better.

Yes, it is so frustrating isn't it? We are continually being offered things to 'help' with this or that and the products do always suggest introducing gradually etc but it doesn't seem to be common to consider the possibility of making things worse!! I don't know yet but as none of the supplements I have used have made much difference I may as well save my money and consider that they do trigger a response that is negative. I am using boswellia and MSM atm though as straights as they are easy to evaluate and so far, so much better!! I wouldn't mind finding a very simple vitamin and mineral supplement for winter but if need be I will just try straight vit c and vit e as I know those things are not in preserved fodder.
 

Highmileagecob

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I did find with my cob that weight control and fitness played a key part. Up to last summer he was ridden daily, weather permitting, and wore a grazing muzzle 24/7. Out of interest, what age is your horse? Breathing issues with my lad didn't start until 17y.o. and appeared to start after a new horse was introduced into the herd and created havoc until his owners sold him on. Every summer has seen a gradual improvement, but I still can't have him near hay or hay based products.
 

jaquelin

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Reading this with interest. My now just 6 YO cob has had asthma now for two months. We are at the beginning of investigation and treatment. He has been scoped and mucus cultured, no infection, just asthma. Neither anti-histamines nor Ventapulmin helped, and he is now on a course of prednisone (steroid). This does not seem to be making much difference.
I tried riding him yesterday, not good, lots of coughing.
He is now turned out 24/7, on soaked hay. My sense is that the key allergen was oilseed rape, but that has gone to seed and he is still coughing. He is not overweight, I would say Condition score 3 and I aim to keep him there. He is not on supplements, just gets some Happy Hoof and chaff twice a day.
The vet wants to run thru the steroid course (another 2.5 weeks) but then what? Nebuliser? None of the standard treatments are working. Maybe try Boswellia after steroids, etc. I last used it in an elderly dog to help control minor strokes, so slightly concerned that it has become a “magical” treatment.
Any thoughts gratefully received, as I currently have an unrideable horse and am very frustrated
 

palo1

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Reading this with interest. My now just 6 YO cob has had asthma now for two months. We are at the beginning of investigation and treatment. He has been scoped and mucus cultured, no infection, just asthma. Neither anti-histamines nor Ventapulmin helped, and he is now on a course of prednisone (steroid). This does not seem to be making much difference.
I tried riding him yesterday, not good, lots of coughing.
He is now turned out 24/7, on soaked hay. My sense is that the key allergen was oilseed rape, but that has gone to seed and he is still coughing. He is not overweight, I would say Condition score 3 and I aim to keep him there. He is not on supplements, just gets some Happy Hoof and chaff twice a day.
The vet wants to run thru the steroid course (another 2.5 weeks) but then what? Nebuliser? None of the standard treatments are working. Maybe try Boswellia after steroids, etc. I last used it in an elderly dog to help control minor strokes, so slightly concerned that it has become a “magical” treatment.
Any thoughts gratefully received, as I currently have an unrideable horse and am very frustrated

I think it is helpful to go for a course of steroids in all honesty as that will sort out the inflammation which is causing the symptoms. Then you might be able to work out more easily the triggers for a flare up. Steroids via inhaled or nebulised methods are safer and generally considered more effective but you may need to try a couple of different kinds of steroid to find the right one. Dex doesn't appear to work for my horse in nebulised form where a very low dose of cleni in inhaled form seems to work well for example.

I do think it is important to get on top of the inflammation before you try anything else and steroids are the best for that. Once your horse is coping again you can start to eliminate stuff; it's possible that hay might not help or he might be fine with hay but until you have a horse that hasn't got an inflamed respiratory system it will be hard to know and I understand that once sensitivity has set in you are slightly behind the curve. That isn't to say you can't deal with it, at all, but that you need to stop the over-reaction/inflammation first.

I also understand that sometimes people only do a short course of steroids where a longer one is needed so it's worth asking your vet lots of questions I think. Supplements may or may not be helpful at the reactive stage but subsequently it may be worth trying anything new as a 'straight' (ie not trying lots of changes at the same time lol). Last year did my head in tbh as I threw everything at my horse; by end of July she was fine but I had no idea what had helped and what hadn't - hence this year's angst!!
 
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