Asymmetrical shoulders - causes

[FestiveFuzz]

Hi all,

I'll try to keep this short and sweet but there's a lot to cover so please bear with me.

I've had H since the beginning of August. He's currently on trial for 6 months and all being well I'll be buying him at the end of January though I am due to pay a £500 deposit at the end of the month.

Prior to me I don't know much of his history other than he was broken just before he turned 5 and has done very little since aside from hunting a few times last season.

Anyway since he's been with me we've taken things slowly working on his transitions and getting him working more responsively and with more impulsion. He's always done little bunny hops when he's fed up of working but in the last two weeks he's begun properly bucking when asked to trot. I should add in between he had a two week holiday as I was on my honeymoon.

I had a feeling this could be saddle related so spoke to our YO who's getting their saddler out to check him out. I had intended not to ride until the saddler had checked him over but stupidly listened to a few people on the yard who felt I was being too precious about him and that he was just testing me which was feasible as he's in a new home with a new mum.

I schooled him yesterday and knew almost immediately that he wasn't right. He was fidgety, felt like he was humping his back when trotting and when asked to stand kept going backwards or sideways. Figuring I was fighting a losing battle I called it a day.

I was due to have a lesson today but was already in two minds as to whether to go ahead with it. I spoke with my instructor last night and she agreed to come see him anyway and see if she could see what the problem was.

As soon as I got to the yard I could see he was a bit tucked up but could see no obvious reason why. My instructor checked him over with and without his saddle and felt that the saddle was a bit narrow for him and that the flocking was a tad lumpy which could be causing him the discomfort.

She then looked at his back and said she could see clear signs of tension behind his withers and across his loins. Which again could be linked to the saddle being slightly off.

Then she stood behind him and showed me that there's a dramatic difference in height and muscle between his left and right shoulder. I've got a physio coming out this week to check him over but wondered if anyone had any ideas as to what would cause such a dramatic difference between his shoulders?

I feel dreadful that I've left him in pain this week and am terrified it could be something sinister but I'm trying to stay positive and rational at what could be causing our current problems.

 

[webble]

I would also get him some physio/ chiro some of the shoulder issues could also be caused by the saddle so maybe see if you can get that on its way to be helped too. You will probably be left with some exercises to do to help with the tension/ loosen up

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Thanks! I've got the YO chasing the saddler as we speak as I don't want to ride him again until we've got to the bottom of what's causing him discomfort. So hopefully we'll be on the way to recovery shortly.

I guess I'm just worrying as my instructor doesn't want me to pay my deposit on him until we know what the problem is and I guess I've just assumed the worst that it'll be KS

 

[webble]

A vet would be able to tell you more than a saddler really. I would agree re the deposit. If the horse isnt yours yet does the owner need to have some input in treatment?

 

[TandD]

My mare has this problem with the other end of her body!!!! Her pelvis is higher on one side.
We have had an osteopath look at her and he ran through different causes
1. Recent injury/ trauma.....how ever we know this isn't the case as we have owned her long enough and she came with it
2. Growing as a 2/3 year old...highly unlikely
3. Injury as a young horse...highly unlikely
4. Birth trauma....mother was quite small and she's huge so could have got stuck
5. Genetic....unfortunately he thinks its most likely this option..... Bit of a bummer as if we ever breed from her the foal may also have this problem

However with being correctly worked the muscle should build up ok and will look more level.....and any foal she has can be treated when young
But all this work requires the support of a physio and osteopath for life....

 

[siennamum]

A lot of horse have unevenly shaped shoulders. As with asymmetry in the pelvis it can be caused by a myriad of things. A young horse which hops in transitions isn't ideal, I would be inclined to get the vet for a bit of a check over to understand the cause.

 

[be positive]

One of the problems with a trial period is that you start on the journey without a vetting, I would get a 5 stage done before going any further otherwise you may put in 6 months and then find something that means you do not want to buy but have spent a huge amount both financially and emotionally with nothing at the end to show for it.
The owner should also be kept in the loop whatever you do, she needs to be informed of any potentially invasive treatment, as does the vet and possibly the insurance company if you start to look further, it is probably just him changing shape as you are working him properly but you really do need to get everything done by the book just in case there is a real issue.

 

[Fellewell]

I would check to see if he's dragging his toe on the affected side and definitely call the vet.

 

[Chocy]

Apart from the bucking & bunny hopping I could have written ure post!!

My boy has asymmetric shoulders- right 1 bigger than left. With him it seems the actual shoulder bone etc is just bigger & not related 2 trauma & i've had many people look at him.

Working correctly will help but no guarantee he will ever b symmetrical.
I have found his asymmetry has caused massive saddle-fitting problems as his right shoulder pushes saddle to left & twists it in2 his left wither as well as sitting 2 close to spine on right hand side.
Unfortunately due to shocking service from qualified saddle fitter I used ill-fitting saddles for over a year. So on-going I have to be over cautious with saddles as any slight shift from centre & i gave every upset boy!

I'd recommend physio, vet 2 make sure no trauma etc & a very good & qualified saddle fitter. Work wise making sure horse works correctly & lifting thro his shoulders all helps as well as lots of pole work raised poles etc have helped

Incase it helps we have kind of sorted the saddle prob my putting block into pocket under seat
of saddle- hard to explain but similar 2 shims in half pad but its in saddle.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Thanks all. Just to clarify the saddler was booked before everything else came to light. I'm keen to get the physio out before a vet as I still feel this could all stem from his saddle not fitting right. He's due his yearly jabs in a couple of weeks though so I'm going to ask the vet to check him out then and make sure there's nothing else I should be aware of before I pay for him.

With regard to his owner it's a rather odd situation as all our correspondence goes through their broker (financial aspects) and the person they asked to facilitate the sale (all welfare/management aspects). The owner themselves only went to see H once before deeming him too scary and resigning him to the field where he'd been on full livery until I came along. I had already mentioned when his bucks became more than just the odd bunny hop and we agreed the saddle was the likely cause. I emailed them again as soon as I got back from the yard today to let them know what my instructor has said and ask if they knew of any reason for the asymmetry but am yet to hear back from them yet.

Does anyone know where I'd stand in getting him vetted after having him for two months?

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Apart from the bucking & bunny hopping I could have written ure post!!

My boy has asymmetric shoulders- right 1 bigger than left. With him it seems the actual shoulder bone etc is just bigger & not related 2 trauma & i've had many people look at him.

Working correctly will help but no guarantee he will ever b symmetrical.
I have found his asymmetry has caused massive saddle-fitting problems as his right shoulder pushes saddle to left & twists it in2 his left wither as well as sitting 2 close to spine on right hand side.
Unfortunately due to shocking service from qualified saddle fitter I used ill-fitting saddles for over a year. So on-going I have to be over cautious with saddles as any slight shift from centre & i gave every upset boy!

I'd recommend physio, vet 2 make sure no trauma etc & a very good & qualified saddle fitter. Work wise making sure horse works correctly & lifting thro his shoulders all helps as well as lots of pole work raised poles etc have helped

Incase it helps we have kind of sorted the saddle prob my putting block into pocket under seat
of saddle- hard to explain but similar 2 shims in half pad but its in saddle.

Chocy your boy sounds exactly the same as mine (his right side is also bigger than his left!). Has his asymmetry caused you any problems aside from the issues with getting a correctly fitted saddle?

I've been very fortunate and have no previous experience with back/shoulder issues so don't really know what to look out for.

 

[FfionWinnie]

How different are they, some difference is normal.

Definitely get him vetted, you haven't paid for him so this is the time to do it.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

How different are they, some difference is normal.

Definitely get him vetted, you haven't paid for him so this is the time to do it.

There's a pretty huge difference between the two. Left shoulder is virtually non-existent whereas right shoulder is very prominent. YO was out when I was at the yard earlier but is going to come and have a look tomorrow night so I'll try and take a pic at the same time so I can show you the difference.

My worry with the vetting is that the actual owner is very inexperienced and I worry they will try to blame me if anything does show up on the vetting. Really beginning to wish I'd had him vetted before I took him on but at the time I felt there was no need as anything untoward was likely to show up in the first 6 months whilst he was still on trial.

 

[SnowPhony]

He may just be tight in one side for a variety of reasons causing him to not move correctly and become more muscular through one side. This could be the saddle not fitting quite right.

Horses usually prefer one rein to the other and people are usually more dominant one side than the other...maybe he's just been schooled more on one rein.

 

[KSR]

I'm no further help, but my SJ mare is very asymmetric in her shoulders.. She is 15, and has been retired (bar the odd hack in walk) since she was 9 due to breaking her shoulder..

I'd reccommend having a look at his diagonal hind too as it could be a referred issue from his hindquarters..

I use a multi pocket riser under her numed with her saddle if she ever goes out for a wander..

Good luck with your horse

 

[FfionWinnie]

You can't buy him because you are worried they will blame you for breaking him. If one shoulder is very different then even if nothing else is wrong, saddle fitting will probably always be a pain in the backside.

 

[Goldenstar]

This potential could be a very serious problem with this horse.
You really must get him vetted by a good equine specialist ASAP .
You must not get a physio or someone like that look at or treat this horse before a vet has seen it . It is not legal and not something you should do with a horse that is not yours .
Get a vetting ASAP and take it from there.

 

[twiggy2]

This potential could be a very serious problem with this horse.
You really must get him vetted by a good equine specialist ASAP .
You must not get a physio or someone like that look at or treat this horse before a vet has seen it . It is not legal and not something you should do with a horse that is not yours .
Get a vetting ASAP and take it from there.

agree a good (insured) physio or the like will not treat a horse without the ok from a vet

 

[webble]

agree a good (insured) physio or the like will not treat a horse without the ok from a vet

Sorry yes I assumed OP would know phyio or chiro will need vets permission first!

 

[Goldenstar]

I am not at all sure Op should let this horse have any treatment without referring to its owner .
A vetting to identify what's what's that's the first thing to do.

 

[thatsmygirl]

My mare has this, her foot is slightly off centre but is the only thing they could find.

 

[Flame_]

Whatever the cause is, there's a problem. A vetting is an overall vet's assessment of whether or not the horse is right for the job you want it to do on one particular day, what you want is the reason for the long term uneven shoulder development. I wouldn't be going for a 5 stage vetting yet IIWY, I'd be talking the owner about wanting to get to the root of this problem and what input they're wanting to have and/or what their insurance situation is.

I wouldn't buy a horse with this sort of indication of a problem, without knowing what's causing it and that it can be fixed (ETA without costing me a fortune).

 

[Flibble]

Definitely talk to owner and get a good vet involved.

 

[Chocy]

Generally No the asymmetry is only a problem for saddle fitting.

He was checked (by vet) for SI problems due to 1 hip being slightly lower & being wee bit short on step in opposite hind to big shoulder.
But full clean bill of health thankfully!
But the saddle fitting is a huge problem i've spent 3yrs trying 2 get a saddle 2 for him perfectly & i'm still trying. As I said a lot of that is due 2 horse being over-sensitive due to the amount of damage the previous saddle fitter has caused.

I ensure he has regular physio sessions 2 keep on top of any problems that may arise.

 

[cremedemonthe]

As some of the others have said, it's normal for horses to have one side larger than the other, we flock saddles to fit accordingly and balance things up.
I'm sorry you have had such a bad experience with saddles. I have an article on my website as well as a lot of other information for people who have had bad experiences or are having a new (or new to you-secondhand) saddle fitted and what to expect in level of service. It also gives some advice on young horses and how they muscle up. I will PM it to you, hope it may help.
Oz