At a bit of a loss....

[MoodyMare101]

Ok so I have had my mare for nearly 6 months now. I knew when I bought her that she was nappy, stroppy, very green for her age (8 and half) and generally a bit of a diva! None of this really bothered me as I bought her as a bit of a project to really work on and make her my own.

Basically, before I got her, she had been in the same home her whole life, but had never really done much (probably due to the nappiness!)

Now for the first two weeks that I had her, everything was grand (probably a bit of a shock to the system for the poor love going from the life of luxury - the horses were treated like royalty where I got her from - to being chucked in a field and having to learn to survive like a horse - which, albeit a few hiccups, she has coped with rather well and she seems to enjoy living out!) However after that , things started to change (I knew they would as she began to settle in!) so I gave her time to find her feet and suss out that life really isnt as big of a drama as she likes to make out that it is!!

Here's the problem:
She rears.

And I'm not talking 'I'm throwing a strop' rears - I'm talking throw herself in the air with potential to flip over backwards rears.

Backstory Part 2:
She rears in hand - always has done since I got her and although this has improved, she still does it occasionally if you ask her to do something she doesn't want to do e.g. Come in from the field, or tie up or go in the stable or load (all of these are being worked on and have improved - apart from the stable - since I got her!) However this I can deal with and she doesn't do it anywhere near as badly as she used to or as badly as she does when ridden! The one thing she does do is (when tied up) she will randomly rear and break off of the baling twine but then just stand there for no apparent reason!!

When ridden, she rears as a form of napping and to begin with, they are very small and they get progressively larger more violent (leaping into it/whilst rearing, throwing her head around - nearly smacking me in the face multiple times). I can deal with pretty much all of the rearing by just ignoring her and pushing her forward however once she starts she will not stop - she refuses to move anywhere other than upwards backwards or spins.

Rearing is her first defense - her go to move if you like!

So my instructor suggested draw reins (horse already wears a martingale and it makes no difference at all!!) Now don't get me wrong I hate draw reins and I would never in a million years have ever put her in them, but it worked for her horse (massive warmblood) and I trust my instructors judgement - she really has worked wonders with not only my horse but all the horses/people she teaches at the yard I'm at. She said to me to ride her in the draw reins all the time (until my next lesson in a couple of weeks) to see if it stops the rearing (that is all the draw reins are being used for - to stop the rearing!).

Today:
I went out for a hack on my horse with the calmest horse on the yard. We had been riding for about 20 mins before my horse decided to nap and rear. This didn't bother me, I kept ignoring her and pushing her forward until she decided to throw herself in the sir so high that she almost went over backwards (this was with the draw reins on!). Now I thought the whole point of the draw reins was to make her stop rearing (which it actually did for a while when she started napping!) not make her worse?!!

She is not in any pain, and she is the sort of horse you can't get angry at or use a whip/smack (have tried it and it makes her a lot worse!) Every episode of rearing is very random and generally happens with little warning!

I am very much at a loss of what to do!! She is so talented and has the kindest nature ever - nothing she does is done with the intention of hurting me!!

Any suggestions??

Sidenote:
She DOES NOT scare me in any way (if she did then I probably wouldn't have persevered this long with her!) - what worries me is the fact that she could end up seriously hurting not only me but herself without intending to do it!!

 

[rifruffian]

safety first !

 

[FfionWinnie]

You say she's not in any pain but napping after 20 minutes when just out hacking and with a companion is pretty strange what were the circumstances which led to her starting to nap?

All draw reins can do is stop them getting their heads up which in some respects can stop a rearer. However yours sounds more complex.

 

[splashgirl45]

sounds rather dangerous to me, you sound like you have tried most things. it is not normal behaviour so ithink it may be worth getting a horse behaviourist in to assess her. i dont mean someone who says they can talk to horses but someone like michael peace or richard maxwell... they have dealt with hundreds of troubled horses and may be able to advise the best way forward. my friend had a horse who was very unpredictable and they took him to richard maxwell , he assessed him and said there was something wrong with him and not to ride him again as he was dangerous....they were very disappointed and felt that he had wasted their money. 6 months later the horse was found dead in the field with no sign of a struggle or injury..vet thought it could have been a brain tumour and this would explain his odd behaviour...... please keep yourself safe...

 

[MoodyMare101]

You say she's not in any pain but napping after 20 minutes when just out hacking and with a companion is pretty strange what were the circumstances which led to her starting to nap?

All draw reins can do is stop them getting their heads up which in some respects can stop a rearer. However yours sounds more complex.

We were literally walking along the road - nothing out of the ordinary (luckily when she started rearing she was doing it in the field next to the road!!)

 

[be positive]

She may not scare you but she is not safe and anyone with a sense of self preservation should be scared, a rearer that may flip over, or just go high enough it slips is dangerous, it could kill you, the only serious rearer I had on my yard went over with it's owner and only the fact she landed on a bank at the side of the road saved her from serious injury, I eventually gave them notice to leave the yard as they would not stop riding it or do a proper investigation into why she did it.

I don't believe any "normal" horse naps and rears vertical for no reason, it may be behavioural, it may be pain but whatever the cause putting draw reins on is not going to cure it and may well make matters worse, you say she is not in any pain but unless you have scanned and xrayed most of her body I don't know how you can make that statement, the fact she is kind natured suggests strongley she is trying to tell you something is wrong and you are not listening.

 

[Colivet]

if she gives you sufficient warning of an impending rear, you could try turning her head to the side until her nose touches your toe and if necessary, move her hind end sideways so she is actually turning in a very tight circle. Release and ask for forward movement but repeat the turn if she attempts to nap/rear. Theoretically, she should find it nigh impossible to raise her front end off the ground with her head turned and she should also quickly realise that moving forward is the easier option.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

if she gives you sufficient warning of an impending rear, you could try turning her head to the side until her nose touches your toe and if necessary, move her hind end sideways so she is actually turning in a very tight circle. Release and ask for forward movement but repeat the turn if she attempts to nap/rear. Theoretically, she should find it nigh impossible to raise her front end off the ground with her head turned and she should also quickly realise that moving forward is the easier option.

Theoretics are fine, but also extremely likely to unbalance and go down, which I've experienced in the past when rehabbing off the track tb's.
I've got a few things I used to work through, but this one still puts rider and horse at risk, also potentially can spike another avoidance issue from horse.

OP, I strongly advise you get help from outside the box, as mentioned above.

 

[twiggy2]

She may not scare you but she is not safe and anyone with a sense of self preservation should be scared, a rearer that may flip over, or just go high enough it slips is dangerous, it could kill you, the only serious rearer I had on my yard went over with it's owner and only the fact she landed on a bank at the side of the road saved her from serious injury, I eventually gave them notice to leave the yard as they would not stop riding it or do a proper investigation into why she did it.

I don't believe any "normal" horse naps and rears vertical for no reason, it may be behavioural, it may be pain but whatever the cause putting draw reins on is not going to cure it and may well make matters worse, you say she is not in any pain but unless you have scanned and xrayed most of her body I don't know how you can make that statement, the fact she is kind natured suggests strongley she is trying to tell you something is wrong and you are not listening.

THIS

 

[Colivet]

Theoretics are fine, but also extremely likely to unbalance and go down, which I've experienced in the past when rehabbing off the track tb's.
I've got a few things I used to work through, but this one still puts rider and horse at risk, also potentially can spike another avoidance issue from horse.

OP, I strongly advise you get help from outside the box, as mentioned above.

Fair comment, I can see how that might happen. Though it did work for my 17hh ID on the rare occasion when he threatened, but then the ID temperament is less "frantic" usually and my boy in particular was generally very sensible and not fond of putting himself in danger

 

[MoodyMare101]

if she gives you sufficient warning of an impending rear, you could try turning her head to the side until her nose touches your toe and if necessary, move her hind end sideways so she is actually turning in a very tight circle. Release and ask for forward movement but repeat the turn if she attempts to nap/rear. Theoretically, she should find it nigh impossible to raise her front end off the ground with her head turned and she should also quickly realise that moving forward is the easier option.

This is exactly what I do every time and it makes no difference!! She is very quick and if she decides she is rearing, turning her in a tight circle doesnt make any difference!!

 

[horselady]

I think you should get someone in to asses her behaviour as mentioned before.

 

[Pinkvboots]

because her response is so extreme it really sounds like she is in pain I would get her back and neck X rayed, someone I know had a gelding that would nap and rear really dangerously turned out he had a neck fracture, I know you say whatever she does doesn't frighten you but it is really dangerous you could end up with her on top of you.

 

[AmyMay]

I'm assuming you've had her thoroughly checked out by an equine vet - and that nothing has been found to be wrong. And I guess you now have the answer to why, at 8, She had such low ridden mileage.

I guess your solutions are field ornament or bullet.

 

[rextherobber]

sounds rather dangerous to me, you sound like you have tried most things. it is not normal behaviour so ithink it may be worth getting a horse behaviourist in to assess her. i dont mean someone who says they can talk to horses but someone like michael peace or richard maxwell... they have dealt with hundreds of troubled horses and may be able to advise the best way forward. my friend had a horse who was very unpredictable and they took him to richard maxwell , he assessed him and said there was something wrong with him and not to ride him again as he was dangerous....they were very disappointed and felt that he had wasted their money. 6 months later the horse was found dead in the field with no sign of a struggle or injury..vet thought it could have been a brain tumour and this would explain his odd behaviour...... please keep yourself safe...

^^ this

 

[Pearlsasinger]

How do you know she is not in pain?
What does she eat? It is truly amazing how some animals (and humans) can react to food that others can eat with no ill effects, whatsoever. I had a made whose behaviour was bizarre and apparently unpredictable until we realised that it was all caused by food sensitivities. She could manage about 20 minutes under saddle before she flipped too.
I would strip this mare's diet right back to hay only for a month, not riding in that time and monitor the behaviour carefully. If nothing changes, thermal imaging might give you a pointer as to the best place to start physical investigations. You have proved that she cannot be ridden through it, so now a different approach is called for.
Stay safe and please let us know how you get on.

 

[JJS]

She may not scare you but she is not safe and anyone with a sense of self preservation should be scared, a rearer that may flip over, or just go high enough it slips is dangerous, it could kill you, the only serious rearer I had on my yard went over with it's owner and only the fact she landed on a bank at the side of the road saved her from serious injury, I eventually gave them notice to leave the yard as they would not stop riding it or do a proper investigation into why she did it.

I don't believe any "normal" horse naps and rears vertical for no reason, it may be behavioural, it may be pain but whatever the cause putting draw reins on is not going to cure it and may well make matters worse, you say she is not in any pain but unless you have scanned and xrayed most of her body I don't know how you can make that statement, the fact she is kind natured suggests strongley she is trying to tell you something is wrong and you are not listening.

I agree. Even if you can't work out what's happening on the surface, the likelihood is there's something going on.
I say this from experience; despite a number of professionals suggesting T's problems must be behavioural, he was eventually diagnosed as a grade five headshaker aged seven, and now spends his days as a field ornament.
Until you've had a thorough look at what might be causing her issues, I really wouldn't be getting back on.

 

[SEL]

What has been done to rule out pain? My mare has been known to rear and hers is highly likely to be pain related. In fact when my saddler was out today and watched me ride she said she didn't think I should be doing any hacking on her until she's had her hocks medicated - her soreness is affecting her back and understandably the weight of a rider makes it worse.

 

[MoodyMare101]

I'm assuming you've had her thoroughly checked out by an equine vet - and that nothing has been found to be wrong. And I guess you now have the answer to why, at 8, She had such low ridden mileage.

I guess your solutions are field ornament or bullet.

I havent had her checked yet (have had back, teeth, saddle, feet and general vet check done - all came back absoultely fine apart from her just being generally very weak all round due to lack of muscle!!) So have thus far mainly ruled out pain and she is the sort of horse that when shes in pain she will act like shes on deaths door so thougt if she was in pain - I would know about it!! However after today I'm getting her checked because it was definitly not normal nappy behaviour!! Am going to ring the vet on Monday and start the process of getting her checked! Yes it would tend to suggest why she hasn't done much for her 8 years - when we bought her we were told it was just because she is difficult but now i believe there really is something wrong!! As much as I would love her as a field ornament, she would not cope - she likes to be kept busy!! So unfortunately the latter option would be best for her mental wellbeing (however it will be the last resort!)!!

 

[MoodyMare101]

How do you know she is not in pain?
What does she eat? It is truly amazing how some animals (and humans) can react to food that others can eat with no ill effects, whatsoever. I had a made whose behaviour was bizarre and apparently unpredictable until we realised that it was all caused by food sensitivities. She could manage about 20 minutes under saddle before she flipped too.
I would strip this mare's diet right back to hay only for a month, not riding in that time and monitor the behaviour carefully. If nothing changes, thermal imaging might give you a pointer as to the best place to start physical investigations. You have proved that she cannot be ridden through it, so now a different approach is called for.
Stay safe and please let us know how you get on.

She came to me on Alfa A which was sending her loopy and she now has 1 scoop Hifi Mol free, Equine Americas Magnitude Powder (calmer) and 500g Top Spec cool balancer once a day. Unfortunately she has to have feed other wise she drops weight and she needs to have the calmer!! However once the grass has grown back a bit, I may try this just to see if it makes any difference!!

 

[MoodyMare101]

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

As of Monday I am going to ring the vet and see what he says re getting her checked out, also am going to look down the behavioral route as well!!

I'm not 100% sure it is pain related though as she is worse (much much worse) when not ridden! She is strange because she only tends to do it out hacking, never really in the school which is what is making me think it could be behavioral.

The only way I will be able to tell what is going on is to get investigations done, which is what I am going to do!!

 

[tamsinkb]

One of my horses behaves in a similar, though not as extreme manner when his gastric ulcers are bad..... his napping usually starts after about 20mins of riding unless he has plenty of fibre based feed whilst being groomed /tacked up.

 

[Lyle]

Sounds like it's become quite an ingrained habit. What do the past owners say?
I'd say you got the more violent/unbalanced rear today because she's hit the draw reins on the way up and panicked. I do think it wasn't a great suggestion from your trainer, given the draw reins can easily cause some horses enough panic to make a huge mistake when rearing. Whilst they can help a rider keep a horse 'busy' when working (i.e schooling) so they don't have time to think about rearing, I wouldn't suggest them for a nappy rearer.
I'd be getting her thoroughly checked out, and cutting her feed ration back to nothing. I'd get a professional to help you from the ground to quit the habit when being handled and to assert you as someone to be trusted and respected, then spend a long time working her in the arena to gain The same relationship in the saddle. Only when I hadn't seen a hint of a rear for weeks, then I'd start doing off arena things. Like wandering a small lap or two of a paddock after a good arena session, or down the drive way. Slowly building up the off arena time. Good luck, you've been given lots of great advice by the other posters

 

[blitznbobs]

It needs rebacking - go back to the start and only go on to next phase when horse is secure in that phase. With an ingrained issue like this I'd be long reining her all over the place and wouldn't get on it she understands that forwards means forwards. Then I'd do tiny amounts of ridden work after long reining for her exercise and getting off again before the negative behaviour starts (i.e. Walk 1 20m circle) then loads of praise and finish. Once this is consistent slowly slowly change the ratio of long reining to ridden work. But it's going to take months and months to reach this stage... if it is behavioural. If it's pain this won't work either.

 

[DabDab]

Lots of good advice up thread, but I agree it is odd that she would rear at that point in the ride, but maybe there was something that upset her but you didn't see. Though I don't think I'd be going any further without double checking for any physical cause.

On the subject of draw reins - for a proper rearer they are a disaster, because they will affect the head position and unbalance a high rear. They can also make a determined rearer go higher as the struggle to overcome the restriction. So I wouldn't use those again.

With the rearing while tied up thing - get hold of a bike tyre inner tube and use it as the connection between ring and leadrope, rather than bailing twine. They are really stretchy so a troublesome horse can prat about without it breaking.

 

[planete]

Lots of good advice up thread, but I agree it is odd that she would rear at that point in the ride, but maybe there was something that upset her but you didn't see. Though I don't think I'd be going any further without double checking for any physical cause.

On the subject of draw reins - for a proper rearer they are a disaster, because they will affect the head position and unbalance a high rear. They can also make a determined rearer go higher as the struggle to overcome the restriction. So I wouldn't use those again.

With the rearing while tied up thing - get hold of a bike tyre inner tube and use it as the connection between ring and leadrope, rather than bailing twine. They are really stretchy so a troublesome horse can prat about without it breaking.

But make sure she is not standing on a surface where she could slip, like cement if she is shod.

 

[Sheep]

Sounds like a stressful situation. I wouldn't rule out pain based on her being the dramatic type - my horse is very stoic and didn't show any particularly strong signs of pain (to clarify, not a rearer), but upon investigation, was diagnosed with kissing spine and arthritis in the hocks. Yet when he had the tiniest abscess (which needed little more than a pinprick to relieve) you would have thought he had broken his leg.
Feedwise, if she needs something to hold condition, strip it right back to plain, unmolassed, no extras chaff (I use simple systems timothy chop) and micronised linseed.
Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Worse when not ridden doesn't mean it's not pain related tho. There are loads of things that spring to mind. PSSM, other muscle myopathies, arthritis or even simply the tack doesn't fit and she objects more when she hasn't had to deal with it for a while.

 

[ycbm]

Worse when not ridden doesn't mean it's not pain related tho. There are loads of things that spring to mind. PSSM, other muscle myopathies, arthritis or even simply the tack doesn't fit and she objects more when she hasn't had to deal with it for a while.

Was about to post the same.

 

[scats]

She came to me on Alfa A which was sending her loopy and she now has 1 scoop Hifi Mol free, Equine Americas Magnitude Powder (calmer) and 500g Top Spec cool balancer once a day. Unfortunately she has to have feed other wise she drops weight and she needs to have the calmer!! However once the grass has grown back a bit, I may try this just to see if it makes any difference!!

There is Alfalfa in hi fi and most balancers so check the ingredients of the Top Spec.

A lot of rearing begins as a reaction to pain, but not in every instance. Watch horses out playing in the field and they will rear. It's an inbuilt fight mechanism. I know of a horse locally who rears when he naps. He went over into a ditch with a rider underneath. In all fairness, he has now found a rider that he clicks with and I've not heard anything since, but I imagine he still has it in him if the wrong buttons are pressed.

I'm going to be blunt here. You have one life and one body. I know she doesn't scare you, but all it would take is her to slip or lose her balance and there is you crushed and either killed or paralysed or at best, badly injured. Please don't wait until you are lying in the ground waiting for an ambulance to think tha maybe you should have called it a day with her, because by then it's too late.

If she were mine I would get a complete vet investigation done, tack, teeth, etc and see if anything shows up. If something is flagged then investigate that, by all means. But in a lot of cases, a horse who rears will always have that in them, even after an issue has been fixed. As you say, it becomes their answer to any question that they don't like.

I would seriously consider retiring the horse from work or having her put to sleep.