At a loss with intermittent anxiety/adrenalin spikes

[Nichola_BEquestrian]

Hello, apologies for the long post, but I’m feeling very emotional and I’m at a loss….

I’m really stuck for ideas for my lovely 16yr old WB gelding. I’ve owned him 3 years and we had a wonderful first couple of years. He’s always been a worrier and a switched on horse; but very manageable (and enjoyable) with plenty of work and a job to enjoy. We were training novice/elementary dressage and doing lots and lots of hacking. Plus clinics and competing

Over the last 12 months however, I’ve really struggled and continue to do so. For days/a couple of weeks he’s my normal happy boy and we continue to do everything we love. But every few days/every other week (sometimes every couple of weeks) we continue to get these intermittent episodes of extreme Adrenalin, nervousness and over reactivity. And the spooking (not normally a spooky horse to ride) becomes horrendous, to the point of not being able to ride from one end of the arena to the other. Because he’s so ridiculously tense, everything is a threat (whether it be anything on the horizon), or objects in the school, or a person outside). This is not him and it’s heartbreaking.
But what is strange, is this may last a day or a few days, and then I’ll get my normal relaxed horse back. But I can’t plan or train for anything as I know another episode is around the corner at some point. When he’s this way, and I know from the minute I get to the yard, as he’s like this in his stable too, there’s no bringing that Adrenalin back down. No amount of school exercises, groundwork or lungeing (no matter how tired he gets) touches him: the tension and adrenaline continues. He becomes unbelievably jumpy at anything and everything.

I have worked with my vets over the last 12 months and he’s even seen specialist at Leahurst hospital 3 times now. No one can find a physical reason for his random intermittent behaviour. We have ruled out eyesight problems, ulcers, lameness, head shaking, neurological problems etc. He’s also shown normal on blood tests.

His diet does not change and I’ve worked closely with nutritionists. He’s just on hay, balancer and supplements (colligone - previously used ponease, pink order and joint supplement). I’ve just started magnesium and will see how that goes.
He’s also fed molasses’s free happy hoof before riding.

I’ve tried every calmer and calming supplement. Nothing works. Confidence eq gel also has no effect.

We do groundwork (again he’s great on good days, but then bad days creep back). Lots of hacking (behind someone on the bad days) and his usual schooling (which on good days he seems to enjoy). We even had a lovely outing to dressage last weekend because he was on a “good day”. On a bad day he would be dangerous.

He has physio every 2 months. Dentist every 3 months and saddle fitter checks every 2 months. I have an excellent trainer who doesn’t think it’s a riding problem, as when these episodes happen he’s the same in his stable and on the ground.

he’s currently turned out over night and has a few hours in during the day. In winter he’s turned out every day and stabled at night. He’s always been happy to live in or out. It really doesn’t bother him.

I am heart broken and at a point of retiring him because of the intermittent bad days. I can’t seem to find a way to prevent them, and I can’t seem to find a way to bring him back to earth when they do happen. He’s my absolute dream horse and heart horse 70% of the time, but the other 30% is really affecting my life, mental health etc. as it’s so heartbreaking to keep getting my horse back, only for him to revert again.

Nothing in his world or routine has changed. He is in excellent condition.

I really am a very emotional horse mum, at a loss and in desperate need of ideas if anyone has any?

Thank you so much to anyone who reads my epically long post

 

[Lucky Snowball]

Watching with interest as I have one like this in the school. Thankfully ok hacking. I hope you get some ideas or answers. Mine is better with acoustic ears but need to secure them well. Good luck.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Has he had a cushings test? The pants thing is the trh stim test is not in stock anywhere at the moment but he can have thw acth one.

 

[Barklands]

If there’s no underlying veterinary reason then how odd that he has suddenly started doing that - I would suspect maybe there is something that they still haven’t managed to find since it is a new behaviour (not helpful I know)

If it is only for a few days/weeks is there something that could be upsetting him in the stable/in the field? Weirdly when we used to live near a river we used to get a lot of rats in the stable and that used to set one of mine off which would translate to ridden work. On a slightly fluffier note, have his field mates/stable mates changed?

Have you tried turning him away for a while? Maybe a break from work may do his brain some good and a bit of time to forget about whatever is bothering him?

Another thought might be forage? Are you getting your hay from the same supplier? Can you get it tested and/or try him on different hay and see if that makes a difference?

So sorry to hear this, it’s so difficult, at times like this I just wish they could talk to let us know what is upsetting them

 

[Squeak]

I wonder if it could be worth changing yards for a month or so and see if it makes any difference? I wonder if there could be something triggering him that you don't realise possibly something as simple as the muck heap being emptied by tractor and the tractor upsetting him or the forage as mentione above.

Medical reasons could always be a possibility but if you've already had initial vet checks then I think I'd be tempted to try a yard change and if that fails, turn away for a while before retiring him.

Good luck, it sounds incredibly tough for you both.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

Mine can be like this , but always has been so no changes. If it’s remotely breezy/windy he is on his toes and in flight mode. Deer came through the field and that’s another trigger as is any livestock seen on hacks, but I can identify themes.

I suppose the unusual thing is yours was not like this for 2 years so isn’t necessarily a part of his personality, which makes me lean more towards some kind of pain. Did your vet do a bute trial ? Has herd changed ?

Another issue is (which is very natural ) Is we are sort of expecting it , which feeds into their anxiety levels. I didn’t even realise I was changing position and showing other anxiety signs around certain triggers or expecting an explosion till my instructor pointed it out. I am trying hard not too but it’s difficult so I end up singing or humming to distract myself from thinking too far ahead.

 

[w1bbler]

I know you say nothing has changed, but think back in time to when this started. Are there definitely no changes. New staff at the yard, new horse, horse gone, change of turnout paddock, all things that he can't control, but could upset him?
Is there a staff member handling him that didn't in the 1st 2 years?

 

[silv]

How very frustrating for you, have you kept a diary about rainfall flushes of grass? I am just wondering if it could possibly be grass related. You could look at www.calmhealthyhorses.com there is a great deal of information on there and a questionaire. I know she is selling the products but she is very helpful. Worth a try if you are running out of options. I never used to believe in all that then I had a mare who was really sensitive to grass at certain times and would start by fence walking and get spookier and spookier until not nice to be around. I got to recognise the signs and used to dose her with a syringe of the SOS worked a treat.
He sounds like such a lovely horse, I really hope you get to the bottom of it.
Here is their checklist.

https://www.calmhealthyhorses.com/_files/ugd/338fd4_d261bbb5ac814e8d856be2fa673d3037.pdf

 

[scats]

Have you kept a diary?
Record everything you can- weather, what’s happening on the yard that day etc. See if you can find any patterns. Even down to the people around every day.

I have a px variant horse who is like this (but always has been so not new behaviour) and she’s like a weather prediction machine. She reacts strangely to air pressure and completely loses her brain.

 

[Nichola_BEquestrian]

Thank you all. I am starting to think it’s weather/grass related as this all started when we had that awful wet summer last year.

I forgot to add that I did change yard. There’s only me that handles him as I’m on DIY. Also he had 8 weeks field rest in October and November.

I could suggest a bute trial to my vet?

I did keep him in a few days this week when the weather turned. So that he was just on hay and no grass, but this seemed to make no difference. But maybe after grass growth, it takes longer to get it out of his system?
His previous owner (a friend of mine) had him for 6 years, and agrees that though he’s a worrier he is never like this. But she had very limited turnout and was in a different area. He was also show jumping, so maybe a different outlet for his nervous energy?

For the first two years I had him (2021/22) he was always on grass and I used to be able to ride him in all weathers (rain, snow, wind etc).

I’ll definitely start keeping a diary.
It’s frustrating as I can’t plan to compete anymore, as I don’t know which horse he is going to be.
I wish there was something I could give him on those days to bring him back to normal

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply

 

[Highmileagecob]

Are you able to put a wildlife type camera in the field to check if someone is exercising a dog there when you are not around? Do you have badgers? Any wildlife that could cause upset at night, and put him on high alert in the daylight? Given the scope of the vet testing, it seems likely he's reacting to something he is aware of but needs to run away from. Do you hack out or is he a school horse?

 

[Flamenco]

I had a similar issue, kept a diary and it was linked to spikes in the sugar levels in the grass similar to the calm healthy horses stuff suggested above. There’s another website called Gotcha Equine which explains it better and is less of a sales pitch for products. I used the checklist from calm healthy horses to assess progress.

He was unpredictable in spring, autumn, after heavy rain and frost. He was the only horse at the yard who was seriously affected

The issues disappeared feeding pro-balance (contains vistacell probiotic), magnesium, brewers yeast and salt, plus soaking all hay for 1hr. It took me well over a year to solve.

I sold the horse when i had children, his new owner has moved him to old pasture. My livery was on rye grass as an ex-dairy farm and he doesn’t need the supplements.

 

[Dam1]

As already mentioned above has he had a cushings test ? My mare had moments of random anxiety for no apparent reasons a while before she was diagnosed but now doesn't (she's on 1 prascend a day). X

 

[Nichola_BEquestrian]

We are surrounded by wildlife in this area. Especially deer.
Yet he can go weeks out at night and it not be a problem?

He’s schooled 3 or 4 times a week and hacked twice. Still working at novice/elementary (on the days he relaxes that is).

I’ll have a look at some of the grass related stuff. We don’t have tons of grass, and he grazes the same paddock year round, but there will most likely be those sugary new shoots coming through

 

[Nichola_BEquestrian]

As already mentioned above has he had a cushings test ? My mare had moments of random anxiety for no apparent reasons a while before she was diagnosed but now doesn't (she's on 1 prascend a day). X

I can ask my vet? Does the prascend make a difference?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would test for Cushings and also remove alfalfa from his diet. Intolerances can build up over time and I have seen how feed can affect horses, far more than the traditional 'cereals are heating'. Alfalfa is a feed that some horses find difficult to tolerate and intolerances can be exacerbated by environmental things such as air pressure changes.

 

[Nichola_BEquestrian]

I would test for Cushings and also remove alfalfa from his diet. Intolerances can build up over time and I have seen how feed can affect horses, far more than the traditional 'cereals are heating'. Alfalfa is a feed that some horses find difficult to tolerate and intolerances can be exacerbated by environmental things such as air pressure changes.

Thank you. He’s only only unmolassed happy hoof. When he drops a bit of weight in the winter I used Sumo

 

[ycbm]

I agree with all the suggestions above but the one thing that shouts at me is the severity of the change and its sporadic nature. I wonder if he has something going on in his gut, like a lipoma, that is sometimes causing an acute pain when it presses somewhere, and sometimes not. I've no idea how you could check for that. I'd be reluctant to retire him unless you can rule out acute pain, because he'll still get the pain standing in a paddock.

I do hope you find an answer and that it's something that can be resolved.
.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thank you. He’s only only unmolassed happy hoof. When he drops a bit of weight in the winter I used Sumo

Happy hoof contains alfalfa which is what I would trial excluding from his diet. I am not familiar with Sumo but my experience of a horse with feed intolerances was that the effects peak, resulting in the undesirable behaviour, then there is a kind of ebbuntil the next peak, even when the feed is given consistently.
I think you need to keep a diary. You told us in OP that there had been no management changes but it seems that there may have been some over time. It is very easy to forget what has happened if you don't record it I some way.

 

[ycbm]

Deleted, probably inappropriate if vet specialists have seen the horse.

 

[Nichola_BEquestrian]

Happy hoof contains alfalfa which is what I would trial excluding from his diet. I am not familiar with Sumo but my experience of a horse with feed intolerances was that the effects peak, resulting in the undesirable behaviour, then there is a kind of ebbuntil the next peak, even when the feed is given consistently.
I think you need to keep a diary. You told us in OP that there had been no management changes but it seems that there may have been some over time. It is very easy to forget what has happened if you don't record it I some way.

Thank you. I need some sort of feed to get his supplements in. Can you recommend anything?
Plus I’ve always tried to give him some sort of chaff before riding to help prevent acid splash

 

[Zoeypxo]

try a grass chaff like emerald green or thunderbrooks, or alternatively molichaff do a lite chaff now which is low sugar and no alfalfa.
My warmblood was diagnosed with cushings at 15, she got randomly lethargic, and sweated just walking around. Been on prascend for over 6 months now and shes great.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Hello, apologies for the long post, but I’m feeling very emotional and I’m at a loss….

I’m really stuck for ideas for my lovely 16yr old WB gelding. I’ve owned him 3 years and we had a wonderful first couple of years. He’s always been a worrier and a switched on horse; but very manageable (and enjoyable) with plenty of work and a job to enjoy. We were training novice/elementary dressage and doing lots and lots of hacking. Plus clinics and competing

Over the last 12 months however, I’ve really struggled and continue to do so. For days/a couple of weeks he’s my normal happy boy and we continue to do everything we love. But every few days/every other week (sometimes every couple of weeks) we continue to get these intermittent episodes of extreme Adrenalin, nervousness and over reactivity. And the spooking (not normally a spooky horse to ride) becomes horrendous, to the point of not being able to ride from one end of the arena to the other. Because he’s so ridiculously tense, everything is a threat (whether it be anything on the horizon), or objects in the school, or a person outside). This is not him and it’s heartbreaking.
But what is strange, is this may last a day or a few days, and then I’ll get my normal relaxed horse back. But I can’t plan or train for anything as I know another episode is around the corner at some point. When he’s this way, and I know from the minute I get to the yard, as he’s like this in his stable too, there’s no bringing that Adrenalin back down. No amount of school exercises, groundwork or lungeing (no matter how tired he gets) touches him: the tension and adrenaline continues. He becomes unbelievably jumpy at anything and everything.

I have worked with my vets over the last 12 months and he’s even seen specialist at Leahurst hospital 3 times now. No one can find a physical reason for his random intermittent behaviour. We have ruled out eyesight problems, ulcers, lameness, head shaking, neurological problems etc. He’s also shown normal on blood tests.

His diet does not change and I’ve worked closely with nutritionists. He’s just on hay, balancer and supplements (colligone - previously used ponease, pink order and joint supplement). I’ve just started magnesium and will see how that goes.
He’s also fed molasses’s free happy hoof before riding.

I’ve tried every calmer and calming supplement. Nothing works. Confidence eq gel also has no effect.

We do groundwork (again he’s great on good days, but then bad days creep back). Lots of hacking (behind someone on the bad days) and his usual schooling (which on good days he seems to enjoy). We even had a lovely outing to dressage last weekend because he was on a “good day”. On a bad day he would be dangerous.

He has physio every 2 months. Dentist every 3 months and saddle fitter checks every 2 months. I have an excellent trainer who doesn’t think it’s a riding problem, as when these episodes happen he’s the same in his stable and on the ground.

he’s currently turned out over night and has a few hours in during the day. In winter he’s turned out every day and stabled at night. He’s always been happy to live in or out. It really doesn’t bother him.

I am heart broken and at a point of retiring him because of the intermittent bad days. I can’t seem to find a way to prevent them, and I can’t seem to find a way to bring him back to earth when they do happen. He’s my absolute dream horse and heart horse 70% of the time, but the other 30% is really affecting my life, mental health etc. as it’s so heartbreaking to keep getting my horse back, only for him to revert again.

Nothing in his world or routine has changed. He is in excellent condition.

I really am a very emotional horse mum, at a loss and in desperate need of ideas if anyone has any?

Thank you so much to anyone who reads my epically long post

OMG I could have written this post and have done recently

Next year I will be horse shopping

I never thought I would be doing this again, horse shopping I mean. Since I lost my home bred boy to colic days after I lost my mum 2022, His stable remains empty (with his casket in). I cannot look over the door still. Well with my ID mare like she is I need something to be able to go out...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

.
i got my mare in 2015 and she always did some spooking, but alongside that she has trust issues and anxiety moments. I have tried for 8 years to enjoy doing things and I did up until covid, though still her spooking trust, anxiety were there. Since about September 2023 she has reverted back to what she was like almost .

I never know from hour to hour how she will be with me spooking at me, unsure of me. I have her on a calmer which worked and calcium based, since she got worst tried 3 different calmers and DNA hair testing to see if lacking in anything, which she was but 8 weeks later no different.
I come to the decision she won't change and I can never do what I want to do before to late. So I will be horse shopping in October.

Hacking is done walking mainly because of her issues and also the horse trails bad surface. Her routine also has not changed so your not alone.

Hacking is just not enjoyable and I won't hack alone much if at all. I am now thinking maybe she has PTSD, as the other day i went to part her forelock which I always do before fly hood goes on and she jerked her head away as if I had belted her round the head.


Even walking through the main gate last week she stopped dead staring at the ground as if there was a black hole..


Vet been and apart from a odd shape optic nerve nothing wrong.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thank you. I need some sort of feed to get his supplements in. Can you recommend anything?
Plus I’ve always tried to give him some sort of chaff before riding to help prevent acid splash

I would give Emerald Green grass chaff but there are several others available. At this stage I would eliminate alfalfa completely.

 

[paddy555]

if he was mine and you hadn't already done so I would do a trial of high dose vit E. say 10000iu per day.

I did have a horse that went from OK to spooky and back again. Spooking was caused by pain. Got rid of the pain and spooking went. After a lot of experimenting if was clear we had a large deficiency. High dose made a lot and a quick difference.
It comes in powder and you put it in feed. It is only a small quantity and you could feed it in soaked nuts.

It would be a quick and relatively cheap thing to rule out vit e deficiency.

Feeds and supplements will show they already have vit E in but only in small quantities and probably not of the best quality.

 

[southerncomfort]

Thank you. He’s only only unmolassed happy hoof. When he drops a bit of weight in the winter I used Sumo

Worth checking if the balancer you're feeding has any alfalfa in it. I'm pretty sure Baileys Lo Cal does.

I think the Spillers balancer is oat based.

 

[soloequestrian]

What form are you feeding Mg in? I started mine on Nupafeed MAH and it made a noticeable difference to her. She wasn't as bad as yours and was much more consistent (always spooky!). She always had a regular amount of Mg in her ordinary mineral supplement but definitely needs more - and I double the dose in spring and autumn.

 

[Nichola_BEquestrian]

What form are you feeding Mg in? I started mine on Nupafeed MAH and it made a noticeable difference to her. She wasn't as bad as yours and was much more consistent (always spooky!). She always had a regular amount of Mg in her ordinary mineral supplement but definitely needs more - and I double the dose in spring and autumn.

I’m just giving the small scoop (one in each feed) of mag ox at the moment

 

[Squeak]

Thank you all. I am starting to think it’s weather/grass related as this all started when we had that awful wet summer last year.

I forgot to add that I did change yard. There’s only me that handles him as I’m on DIY. Also he had 8 weeks field rest in October and November.

I could suggest a bute trial to my vet?

I did keep him in a few days this week when the weather turned. So that he was just on hay and no grass, but this seemed to make no difference. But maybe after grass growth, it takes longer to get it out of his system?
His previous owner (a friend of mine) had him for 6 years, and agrees that though he’s a worrier he is never like this. But she had very limited turnout and was in a different area. He was also show jumping, so maybe a different outlet for his nervous energy?

For the first two years I had him (2021/22) he was always on grass and I used to be able to ride him in all weathers (rain, snow, wind etc).

I’ll definitely start keeping a diary.
It’s frustrating as I can’t plan to compete anymore, as I don’t know which horse he is going to be.
I wish there was something I could give him on those days to bring him back to normal

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply

How long ago did you change yard? Has this all started since you moved?

 

[Equi]

How long ago did you change yard? Has this all started since you moved?

This but so what is the stable set up?

My old boy was a bit like this. Massively anxious for no reason I could tell bar when he was in the field. The stable was an outside stable though he had neighbours he never liked it and spent most of his time at the door obsessively looking out. I moved yards and had warned the yo it was a trial because if his behaviour was the same as old yard he would be a nightmare for them but he literally walked into his new stable (barn style) and sighed and I never once saw his behaviour again.