At a loss with my mare (scared of own shadow)

I'm afraid I also have a super-spooker too! He really can be dreadful at hacking - if I dont keep him forward and off the leg and he see's something he dislikes he will whip round and try to head for home. If you stop him then he goes vertical so if Im hacking alone I wear spurs, carry a schooling whip and pretty much always do the same familiar route to keep him confident (or if Ive been with someone the day before then do that route alone to try and build up our repertoire of routes!)

Mine can be VERY sharp but is at heart a pretty lazy horse so I have to keep him interested. If Im schooling I do work him quite hard to keep him occupied. I was told as well that I do need to get strict with him which I struggled with at first cos I assumed he was genuinely scared.

He gets buzzy at shows though so I keep him very relaxed in the warm up and will walk round for a good while just letting him take it all in, then a few relaxed jumps before we go into the ring. I walk quitely into the ring as well to again let him absorb what's in there rather than razzing him up as he really hypes up when the bell goes.

I would echo the food comments too. I found with my chap his adrenaline would rush too early with the spooking and then he would go flat so I put him on P&P in the sping. When I started lessons with my new BS trainer in May he declared him virtually unridable and told me to strip back his diet completely. We did so and after trial and error he is on a diet that suits him now and I have to say its really improved his temperament and his spooking has drastically reduced. He still has his off days when he spooks at the stupidest things but thats him!

Good luck and keep going! You will get there! xx
 
It seems that "spooky horses/ponies" are quite comon, judging by the number of people who have read this post, and its a great relief to know that your not alone :)
Have you tried cutting out as much starch in the food as posible, Equilibrium feed http://winergy.com/Products/WINERGY-Equilibrium/ are very low in starch, and speedy beet is better than sugar beet, and Alfa is better than Hi-Fi in the low in starch department.
A good calmer on the market is Blue chip karma http://www.bluechipfeed.com/2010/01/11/product-karma/?gclid=CJuVtt_Rka0CFUUPfAodYFhsmg, works very well and magnutude form eqiuine america http://www.equine-america.co.uk/products.php?cat=17 is also very good as you can pop this in the feed every day.
Have you also tried riding in draw reins?? or popping some fluffy check pieces on the bridle this is a great way to keep them focused, you can't put these on for B.E anymore but you can use them for show jumping (but not riding club) also have you had the horses neck checked by the physio... all these things i have come across, and am afraid it's all trial and elimination.
Failing all that may be the horse might go better with another rider...
we love our horse's but some times we can Anticipate the horse may or may not spook... and the horse will pick up on this, but with another rider they can then become a different horse, life is far to short and before you no it we are not having fun any more. I have seen horses being bloody horrors with their owners, and then with another rider it's a braver/different horse running around a B.E track....
Good luck :)
 
Thanks everyone so much for their replies.

Trying to take the responses in order

MandyMoo - No I don't know she isn't taking the p***. In some ways I think she probably is, but I also think being scared of everything is in her nature too so its really difficult to tell. My trainer has suggested we put a heart rate monitor on her to see if she is actually frightened so I will try that the next time I get an opportunity. She has one that I can borrow!

Mince Pie - She is on A&P Power & Performance as coming into winter I felt she needed more spark (she is spooky but lazy!). I previously had her on Winergy Equilibrium for a long time which is supposed to be a good low starch feed and she was no better on that unfortunately.

EVS - thanks for your comments. Comforting to hear you are in the same boat. What do you feed your horse now?

Foal - Please see above re Winergy! My only reluctance to try her on a calmer is her lazy temperament, but perhaps it won't make her any worse on that front and it will just make her mind work better?! I will try a syringe at home to see what happens. I have just ordered some Winning Edge from Equifeast so will see how that goes. My trainer has suggested trying her in a double bridle so that is something else to have a go with. I actually purchased some french blinkers last year but never tried them for some reason or another, so I will dig them out too.

Lots of food for thought here so thanks everyone.

Interestingly i rode her last night at home and tried SantaPaws idea of using no leg. There is one corner of the arena she finds particularly spooky, so everytime she spooked in this spot i just stayed totally relaxed with no leg or pressure and i have to say that whilst she still looked she didn't "suck back" at me like she does if i put lots of leg on. So this is really interesting and something i will keep trying to see how it develops.
 
I'll add in about what mine is fed to help.

I don't think food makes much difference to mine, she has been like this whether living out only on forage or when having hard feed, but hard feed wise I've had her on the following -

This winter - Speedy beet, chaff and rolled oats (seems best combination so far)
Last winter - Chaff, Power & performance and naf energy (can be lazy)
Previous year - chaff, D&H cool mix (not sure of name) and Nupafeed calmer( made her very switched off, helped the spooking but not worth the lazyness)
Previous to that she was younger so lived out and got handful of chaff for dinner.

She lives out 24/7 all summer on no hard feed and comes in at night over winter when she gets haylage.

The daft behaviour had got better as she aged, it just happens now when 'I think' the work is boring for her, so sometimes an evasion but she is generally quite scared when in the field too so not just taking the p*ss. Whe she takes the p*ss she's different and becomes more nappy (usually when in season!)

I totally get instructor's not understanding though, had so many that just wanted you to work on a 20m circle for the entire lesson constantly asking for flexion. Now I've moved yards and my great instructor can't come out to me - boo!

Good to hear we are all in same boat though!
 
Supanova said:
MandyMoo - No I don't know she isn't taking the p***. In some ways I think she probably is, but I also think being scared of everything is in her nature too so its really difficult to tell. My trainer has suggested we put a heart rate monitor on her to see if she is actually frightened so I will try that the next time I get an opportunity. She has one that I can borrow!

Interestingly i rode her last night at home and tried SantaPaws idea of using no leg. There is one corner of the arena she finds particularly spooky, so everytime she spooked in this spot i just stayed totally relaxed with no leg or pressure and i have to say that whilst she still looked she didn't "suck back" at me like she does if i put lots of leg on. So this is really interesting and something i will keep trying to see how it develops.
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That's it. It doesn't make him stop being frightened, it just makes him stop trying desperately to get away, while he evaluates things. BIG voice reward every time he resists the urge to run away, and even more if he actually moves forwards. The neighbours all think I am barking :D

If she's anything like mine, you'll be able to tell that the fear is genuine because you will feel her heart beating between your ankles :eek:
 
Ive also took mine to bold heath a few times now



First time I took her (dressage)....it was literally OVER. I had to have a death grip on my reins, hold on tight as she was ready to spring/spook at everything.... its avery spooky venue

The tunnel as you describe is "scary" for them, has a fan? or something which is on, the cafe next door and the bar on the other side.... so imo a lot to take in....for my horse i just find leg on and sit tight is the way to go

FWIW my horse is VERY spooky at home as well.........birds/trees and the latest her own shadow :o


Id go back (if you can) and hire bold.... i need to take mine there again after xmas, she is much much better now - still very spooky but not feeling like she wants to take off as much now.....

good luck :)
 
I have a cob that sounds exactly like your mare!

Mine acts the way he does purely through fault of my own though - I have owned him since 3 & he is now 10.

He started taking the mick in his early age & I kind of let him do it to me, the spooking has never really got any better.

Like you I could take him to venues that we had seen week in week out & we would jump double clears etc but take him somewhere new & his eyes would be on stalks & he would just wouldnt go forwards & we would end up getting eliminated.

I have only just started tackling the problem - I used bending to take his focus away from the "scary object". If I can get his head bending around my leg he is not looking at it & thus the spooking stops.

He is also naturally lazy & would never use a calmer on him, I did try one once but it just sent him to sleep.

He is fed quite a bit as he is a poor doer but I am experimenting with more hay & less mix, next month I am going to try him without a mix altogether & see if it makes a difference. If he is still as lazy without the mix it wont really matter as I can just try something else.

I am also getting a pro to help me out & see what she think sof the situation.

I do help you get some joy - its terribly frustrating when you know your horse has some talent.

Good luck :)
 
Santa Paws said:
That's it. It doesn't make him stop being frightened, it just makes him stop trying desperately to get away, while he evaluates things. BIG voice reward every time he resists the urge to run away, and even more if he actually moves forwards. The neighbours all think I am barking :D

If she's anything like mine, you'll be able to tell that the fear is genuine because you will feel her heart beating between your ankles :eek:
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I know what you mean about neighbours thinking your barking. There is a bungalow across from my arena and everytime they come out of the house, my mare runs off across the arena. I think they we are both barmy!
 
Noodle - You are right, Bold is a very spooky venue. I think it must be the noise in the tunnel that makes her worse as it is certainly where she gets most terrified. I have booked it on 27th Dec to do some training. There is then another show on 2nd Jan so it will be interesting to see what happens - I will report back

Oolp - Sounds just like me. When i first got my mare as a 5 yr old, i took her for a hack and she napped and spun and reared and I guess she scared me a bit because we were on the road. I have been a lot stricter with her since, but perhaps this set the mould for future behaviour.

I am also worried a calmer would make my mare go to sleep as well, which is why i have stayed away from using one.

I have a lot of help from 2 trainers and I think the next step if i can't make progress is to get one to ride her in a competition and see how that goes. You are right, because i know her I anticipate exactly what she is going to do and therefore perhaps i put too much pressure on her, whereas someone who doesn't know would just ride her like any other non spooky horse.
 
Santa Paws said:
I was pretty stunned when my riding instructor told me to take my leg off. I have never come across another horse like him, but with the leg on he just boils over and he will climb fences, break through them, climb banks, anything to get away. Leg off and patience works every time, but I've spent quite a few hours sitting and waiting. My friend owns a "cutter off". He isn't lazy at all but whenever he feels the slightest bit threatened he goes into a crawl. He is 5 and just growing out of it now. If you have a combination of the two, I really feel for you!
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Santa Paws- ahhh the joys of KWPN's....Hows yours bred? Mines the same have PM OP!!
 
Ok I can only tell you what my gelding has now after trying many different foods as he is a poor doer.

Now he gets.

Hifi Lite
Grass nuts
Vegetable Oil
Brewers Yeast
and as much hay and grass as he can stuff down his face.

He was on Haylage but that sends him loopy too.

He is also a 9 yr old KWPN. He has gone from a horse that would only hack out with his field buddy and even then would take off at the slightest flutter in the hedge. He threw my mum off out hacking when he spooked at a dead rabbit that he had seen several times before a horse that could go in the same school a hundred times and still find something that was scary. To a horse that this year learnt to hack alone and babysat three other horses on a very busy sponsored ride and went to his first ever competition alone and behaved like a total star no spooking at all.
 
My boy can be a bit of a tit sometimes when being turned out and brought in and a bit spooky out on hacks but not in an unmanageable way so never did anything about it, but.... He had a bad squitty bum so I got him some Brewers Yeast for his belly (which has worked) but it has also chilled him out quite a lot. No more silly behaviour but he's still kept his energy and enthusiasm when i'm riding. Looking into it further it can be good for moody/hormonal mares that might have digestive trouble
 
Small hunter - thank you for letting me know what your horse is fed. It is really interesting that the change in feed has totally changed his behaviour. Something to add to my list of things to try - trouble with me is that i end up trying everything at the same time and therefore never identify what works, so this time i'm going to do it in stages!!

Libbyn - very interesting about brewers yeast. I will look into that. My mare is quite hormonal and i do sometimes wonder whether she has "season pain" so perhaps this is something that could help.
 
My warmblood is a spooky twonk so i feel your pain, i've had to completley adjust the way i ride as i was adding to his problem (read i allowed him to get away with it) anyway i cant add anything that hasnt been said and what works for me prob wont work for you. The turning point for me was the working out not what he spooked at but what he did before, during and after when he did and what i did as a result or what i did just before. By doing that i worked out how to control or avoid it by what to or not to do. In my case it was as simple as adjusting my postion and sitting up and in and not letting him yank me forward, as soon as he did this i had lost his front and he would be able to do what he wanted.
The breawers yeast can be a very mild calmer, i feed it to mine for his coat but it helps take the edge off.
I also feed a high fibre diet, while he is on the more laid back side of life i have found that on this he is has enough spark to do what i want but is better the fitter i can get him and the more i get him off my leg.
My instructor feeds all her comp horses on a high fibre chaff, cube and speedy beet, she told me to give is a go and also recommened a multi vit, it may or may not help the spooking but getting her good on the inside might give her less to worry about if you know what i mean. Although she doesnt have ulcers she might still have a off gut or lacking something.
Have no idea if this is any help to be honest :D
 
ellie_e said:
Santa Paws- ahhh the joys of KWPN's....Hows yours bred? Mines the same have PM OP!!
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He's by Opan, a Grand Prix showjumper out of Levastrona. His full brother is a nutter to travel, just like he is. And mine is too scared to jump :rolleyes: so it's a good job that he likes dressage and has the paces for it.
 
Supanova said:
Noodle - You are right, Bold is a very spooky venue. I think it must be the noise in the tunnel that makes her worse as it is certainly where she gets most terrified. I have booked it on 27th Dec to do some training. There is then another show on 2nd Jan so it will be interesting to see what happens - I will report back

Oolp - Sounds just like me. When i first got my mare as a 5 yr old, i took her for a hack and she napped and spun and reared and I guess she scared me a bit because we were on the road. I have been a lot stricter with her since, but perhaps this set the mould for future behaviour.

I am also worried a calmer would make my mare go to sleep as well, which is why i have stayed away from using one.

I have a lot of help from 2 trainers and I think the next step if i can't make progress is to get one to ride her in a competition and see how that goes. You are right, because i know her I anticipate exactly what she is going to do and therefore perhaps i put too much pressure on her, whereas someone who doesn't know would just ride her like any other non spooky horse.
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I understand your frustration.

My 16 year old WB is like this even now and sometimes even when I am leading him to the field he comes out of the main yard like he has never seen anything before he blows and snorts.
He notices every minute change on the yard and is actually better away from home as he doesn't know what to expect. He is also very lazy but I do have him on Magic which seems to help his overall relaxation. His worst behaviour was on competition mix it was like he was on LSD he seemed to be almost hallucinating. Haylage and molassed mixes seem to affect him badly. I wonder if your horse is not so much lazy but not confident in going forward this will make her tense and seem lazy and if you are expecting a spook you may be communicating this to her and making it worse - I know I do. I think often spookiness and "laziness" go hand in hand as both are basically avoiding going forward off the leg.

I'm not the bravest of riders but mine has gradually improved doing some spook-busting but also just calmly sitting there (or trying to) and not making a big deal of any spooks. I never used to hack alone but now I take him out for hours. He still spooks e.g at the recently filled pot-holes and a blown down sign - both cause him to try to turn around and set off home but I sort of let him turn then turn back and sit quietly. Usually goes past at third attempt and it is much less often and not as quick.

Perhaps try and see it as her funny quirk and laugh at her silliness and try to become more relaxed about the whole thing - this really helped me rather than getting more and more frustrated :)
 
A calmer that helps with spookiness without making them dozy is Prokalm. Have used it to great success on one of mine, and a friend who'd tried everything else there is with no success had a go recently and it worked for her too. Just turns them into a normal horse - not dopey at all.
 
Thanks so much everyone. Can't believe how many helpful replies i've got. So many things to try now. Really made me feel more positive and no longer at a loss!

Vam - your post is really helpful thanks. Spooky warmbloods hey! Someone once told me that warmbloods were for beginners - I don't think so somehow. Most difficult (albeit most talented) horse I've ever had to ride!

Sussexbythe sea "I wonder if your horse is not so much lazy but not confident in going forward this will make her tense and seem lazy and if you are expecting a spook you may be communicating this to her and making it worse - I know I do. I think often spookiness and "laziness" go hand in hand as both are basically avoiding going forward off the leg."

I think this might have also hit the nail on the head. Sometimes my mare can be really forward and excitable about jumping - this is also when she is feeling confident (although I do feel she gets lazy when she is in season). I rode her again this morning and actually taking my leg of and totally relaxing, but when I ask her to do something making sure she responds immediately, does seem to be helping. I am wondering whether i've previously ridden her with a vice like grip with my legs which has made her both reluctant to go forwards and exacerbated the spooking ....I guess time will tell.

Thanks mystiandsunny - will try that. Does it come in a syringe?
 
such an interesting post

my 5 yr old is exactly the same! lazy bugger most of the time, occassionally when really confident he will come out with a bit of spark, bucking, overjumping, and taking me forwards to jumps but most of the time he is backwards and very spooky!
 
You say she's had everything checked, does that include her back? One of my horses went very "odd" when he had a sore back last year, he was all spooky under saddle and just strange on the ground. As soon as he was 'fixed', he went back to normal.
 
MagicMelon said:
You say she's had everything checked, does that include her back? One of my horses went very "odd" when he had a sore back last year, he was all spooky under saddle and just strange on the ground. As soon as he was 'fixed', he went back to normal.
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Hi MagicMelon - yes she has her back regularly checked by a McTimoney Chiro and a physio. She was a bit sore when the physio last came out but she had put her right and I can tell that she feels much better since she's been treated as more flexible etc. However, unfortunately the spooking continues....
 
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