At a loss with new horse - ideas please

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goodtimes

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I have owned this horse for 6 months now - he is not my first horse - but is turning out to be unlike any other horse I have owned. 7year old cob x

Most of the time he is as good as gold.

However, when he is told off with a NO! (pawing, kicking the door, rubbing his head - general rudeness) he shouts back!

He either quickly turns his bum at me and kicks out or lunges forward and kicks out.

I've been advised to either give him a smack - didn't work - just wound him up more! Or be quite and calm around him - which I do, but he still occasionally needs telling off.


He really doesn't like to be told.

I get that he thinks he is boss and have done loads of groundwork with him - which is fab - its just when he is told off he really does object.

With my last horse, a quick NO was enough, or even a slap with the whip if he ever really tried it on (which was very rare)

But this one has me baffled.

I don't want to pussy foot around him so he thinks I'm scared of him, but really unsure what else to do.

I do have a trainer, but she is away in Belgium at the moment.

I have spoken to both of his previous ownwers who said he could be arsey - but they did very little with him, basically hacked him out and chucked him in a field.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
Does he get turned out every day with friends??? and do you have a top door?

If a smack doesn't work then shut the top door whilst his friends go out and keep the door shut. Friends of mine did this recently with their horse and it worked wonders. He was similar to yours, very bolshy etc....He will learn that that type of behaviour is not acceptable!
 
He gets a couple of hours a day - but spends most of that stood by the gate and is more than happy to come in.

I don't have a top door
 
I have worked with a couple of horses like this and despite appearances, both were lacking confidence. The only thing that worked was keeping consistent, not having a confrontation but 'correcting' the horse constantly when he did something wrong. Often just repositioning the horse, i.e. moving him a step or two backwards or moving 'over' in the stable was enough. Plus lots and lots of praise for the 'good things'.

It may well be that your boy is over confident but pushy/bolshy horses can equally be lacking in confidence IMO :)
 
My grey is like that. I just keep calm (as you said) try to keep her busy (she's better behaved when she has something to do. If I do need to correct her, I keep it short and swift (maybe shout 'OI!') and then forget that it happened and move on. Any grumpiness is ignored and I have to quickly get her to think about something else.
 
How is he to handle, is he bargy/bolshy or does he respect you, is it only when you raise your voice that he turns on you, or does he try and push you around?
Is it possible that in the past he's been hit when he's been shouted at, so he's anticipating that and turning round to get you first?
 
He is fine to handle when wearing his head collar.

Dreadful in the stable without.

He often turns his bum at me when I first walk in to put hay net up - so I make him take a few staps back and put head collar on - tie up then put up net.
 
Keep a couple of quarter full buckets of water handy to stable door. When he paws, kicks the door etc. - throw one of them at him - without a word! This horse has been whacked - frequently - and possibly unfairly. He's had enough. So you need a punishment that is nothing to do with you!

Ignore minor infractions - push him quietly away with your elbow if he tries to rub on you or nip. When he's accidentally good, lots of praise and pats. Teach him to be good by positive reinforcement - rewarding him when he's good. What's the old saying - "Be to his virtues ever kind, And to his faults a little blind!"
 
JanetGeorge said:
Keep a couple of quarter full buckets of water handy to stable door. When he paws, kicks the door etc. - throw one of them at him - without a word! This horse has been whacked - frequently - and possibly unfairly. He's had enough. So you need a punishment that is nothing to do with you!

Ignore minor infractions - push him quietly away with your elbow if he tries to rub on you or nip. When he's accidentally good, lots of praise and pats. Teach him to be good by positive reinforcement - rewarding him when he's good. What's the old saying - "Be to his virtues ever kind, And to his faults a little blind!"
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^ Good advice. :)

I just want to say that in the case of my grey - she has never been told off lots, harshly or unfairly. She's just bossy. :rolleyes:
 
goodtimes said:
He is fine to handle when wearing his head collar.

Dreadful in the stable without.

He often turns his bum at me when I first walk in to put hay net up - so I make him take a few staps back and put head collar on - tie up then put up net.
Click to expand...

If my horse did that, I wouldn't hang it up, he could go without quite frankly.

Maybe that's a suggestion, I see hay as a reward/good thing, maybe retreat with the net when he does that until when you walk in he doesn't give you his bum.
 
JanetGeorge said:
Keep a couple of quarter full buckets of water handy to stable door. When he paws, kicks the door etc. - throw one of them at him - without a word! This horse has been whacked - frequently - and possibly unfairly. He's had enough. So you need a punishment that is nothing to do with you!

Ignore minor infractions - push him quietly away with your elbow if he tries to rub on you or nip. When he's accidentally good, lots of praise and pats. Teach him to be good by positive reinforcement - rewarding him when he's good. What's the old saying - "Be to his virtues ever kind, And to his faults a little blind!"
Click to expand...

I second this this exactly what I would do the water thing can work wonders .
 
I do know that as a youngster, the farmer used to throw his feed bucket at him when he didn't back away from the door - maybe thats what he thinks I'm going to do so gets defensive?????
 
McW said:
If my horse did that, I wouldn't hang it up, he could go without quite frankly.

Maybe that's a suggestion, I see hay as a reward/good thing, maybe retreat with the net when he does that until when you walk in he doesn't give you his bum.
Click to expand...


The trouble with witholding food is surely the horse does not associate hay with "being good". Horses need food and water regardless of how they act or how good or bad you feel they are.

I understand how rewarding with a treat would work but making him hungry when he would not understand why does not make sense to me.
 
rhino said:
I have worked with a couple of horses like this and despite appearances, both were lacking confidence. The only thing that worked was keeping consistent, not having a confrontation but 'correcting' the horse constantly when he did something wrong. Often just repositioning the horse, i.e. moving him a step or two backwards or moving 'over' in the stable was enough. Plus lots and lots of praise for the 'good things'.

It may well be that your boy is over confident but pushy/bolshy horses can equally be lacking in confidence IMO :)
Click to expand...

Interesting Rhino. I have a horse who when she gets worried is very bargy. I think I would definitely investigate this. It may be that a bit of clicker training, just to let him know exactly what behaviour you were looking for might be a fun way to bond with him and let him know his boundaries.
 
It sounds like a defensive behaviour? I had a horse with something similar: if you frightened him enough he'd turn and be ready to defend himself (by booting you) He was a very sensitive and slightly nervous horse who had come across as 'bulshy' in the past and he been hit and chased for it (loose in the field). After he grew to trust me, I could tell him off as much as I liked, but he was defensive with strangers. Interestingly I could ALWAYS tell if he was just being naughty rather than scared/confused etc just by the way he reacted to a tell off: if he was just being a brat, he'd take a telling without batting an eye, and stop it.

I think it's a trust thing. He needs to learn to accept being told off without feeling the need to defend himself. First you need to find a level of punishment/reprimand he can cope with, which is effective. A NO and stamp towards him, maybe, or a slap on the shoulder (or maybe even less). Then firm, consistant boundaries, so he knows, in black and white, what is Good and what is Bad: he'll find having to guess stressful. Shape good behaviour, ignore incorrect behaviour, punish bad behaviour. The same everytime, all the time.
 
rhino said:
I have worked with a couple of horses like this and despite appearances, both were lacking confidence. The only thing that worked was keeping consistent, not having a confrontation but 'correcting' the horse constantly when he did something wrong. Often just repositioning the horse, i.e. moving him a step or two backwards or moving 'over' in the stable was enough. Plus lots and lots of praise for the 'good things'.

It may well be that your boy is over confident but pushy/bolshy horses can equally be lacking in confidence IMO :)
Click to expand...

This, exactly :)
 
McW said:
If my horse did that, I wouldn't hang it up, he could go without quite frankly.

Maybe that's a suggestion, I see hay as a reward/good thing, maybe retreat with the net when he does that until when you walk in he doesn't give you his bum.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I fail to see how not giving him his haynet is going to help in anyway! He won't know that it's because of his naughty behaviour that he's going hungry! Plus surely it will only make him more frustrated and likely to lash out.

However the times that he does move back and allow you to put up the net without presenting you with his bum should be highly praised so eventually he'll get the idea that you come with good things :).
 
Mine use to be a cow but I found that if I was talking before I got near her stable she would already be waiting I'd give her a stroke then as I was stroking I would open the door and say firmly back and then put her net in. If I had to muck out while she was in she had a net but I talked to her and kept stopping and giving her a stroke took time but we now have perfect behaviour in the stable just need to take that outside lol. Hope you find something that works
 
What behaviour is he doing that makes you tell him off. Does he have any toys in his stable as he sounds bored. Has he friend in the field he has paired with?
 
I have one grumpy bitch of a mare who crunches her teeth and shakes her head at me if i go into stable i ignore her.if she invades my space i will put up my hand flat as if to say get out my face and it works,she does it having rugs on girth up etc.i dont hit her because it doesn't work with her.different things work with different horses and you will need to work on that.try not to be frightened of him he will know. putting on a head collar while he has her head out of the door my help
 
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My gelding gets like this when I get him from the field, taking him away from his two mares. When I groom him he swings around and refuses to stand still, pawes the ground and kicks out when I groom his back legs!
If his mates are around he's fine. Is he attached to a certain horse on the yard, or has he been treated badly before? I'd be very quiet and calm with him and wait until he comes to you and then reward him with a treat when he comes to you and is friendly. I don't think shouting at them or shutting them in a stable do they can't see out does any good, it will just wind him up more.
 
I agree with Rhino 100%. Consistency is the key!!

Also try to be one step ahead of him and dont give him the opportunity.

I turn a horse out in the mornings that tries to nip you. If he gets you he then panics and rears up on top of you. And if you move out the way he plunges at you. I now dont give him the opportunity to nip and the rearing has stopped.
 
I am concerned about some of the advice on here, throwing a bucket of water at a horse!!!!
A horse will never learn to trust you if you do this, I agree with constant kind and calm behaviour, it does sound like he had been mistreated in the past and I think it's going to take you a while to get him to get out of this bad behaviour and he needs to learn that his bad behaviour won't get him any attention at all but good behaviour will. This horse needs you to help him otherwise he will end up becoming worse and will never get the love he needs.
 
my old mare was like this and it was all down to trust. once we established that bond (which took about 18 months) all the behaviour stopped.
i would recommend ignoring the bad and praising the good. always keep calm. whens hes banging the door or pawing the ground just completley ignore him/dont even look at him. when he turns his bum on you when you enter the door ignore him and put his haynet up and then leave. he will soon realise you are not going to hurt him and he will come round in his own time
 
ew1801 said:
my old mare was like this and it was all down to trust. once we established that bond (which took about 18 months) all the behaviour stopped.
i would recommend ignoring the bad and praising the good. always keep calm. whens hes banging the door or pawing the ground just completley ignore him/dont even look at him. when he turns his bum on you when you enter the door ignore him and put his haynet up and then leave. he will soon realise you are not going to hurt him and he will come round in his own time
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I hope so - he has lots of good qualities.

I didn't want a new horse but sadly lost my old boy last summer after many happy years together - having a horse i'm not quite clicking with doesn't help ease the pain of loosing a good one.:(:(
 
goodtimes said:
I hope so - he has lots of good qualities.

I didn't want a new horse but sadly lost my old boy last summer after many happy years together - having a horse i'm not quite clicking with doesn't help ease the pain of loosing a good one.:(:(
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yes i know you pain. i had my mare for 11 years and she was quirky but she was my one in a life time horse. i have another one now who is perfect in everyway but i still miss my stubborn grumpy quirky mare, but you will find horses that dont trust people very much have barriors up but once you get through those barriors you have a friend for life
 
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