At end of tether with hacking woes....any advice greatfully appreciated

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el_Snowflakes

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Hi all,

My 15 year old WB mare can be great to hack out. Shes not very spooky and we used to go out just the 2 of us for hours......:s

She goes through stages....if she hasnt hacked out alone for a few weeks i will always go out in company to boost her confidence for the 1st couple of times b4 we head out alone. There is a section of the road where she hates going past.....I accept that it must be a bit scary for her as most of the other horses at the yard worry at the same spot. Theres alot of bushes/trees and you have to go over a road bridge under which water passes so quite alot for them to take in. She has been this way umpteen times and knows there is actually nothing to fear. Her tactic is spinning to the left and heading for home. Previously i would give her a good smack with long schooling whip and it sent her forward and we would be on our way :D..........WELL, she does not respond to this anymore... She has started doing this carry on any time she just decides she wants to get back to the herd. She will spin left and TROT accross the road, never mind if there is traffic. I had to halt her today due to this and she carried out up the kerb and stood on a pavement and would only stand there:O She threatens to rear or run backwards now and has obviously worked out that she will win the agrument if she does so as I refuse to put myself/other at risk with this sort of behaviour. Its really denting my confidence and spoiling my enjoyment......I know she can be great as like i said before, we used to hack alone for ages.....she will use her strength aganst me at any given chance and it usually results in her getting smacked :( however i have tried the softly softly approacjh and it doesnt wor for us. I have a more experienced rider who is going to hack her for me as she can deal with the situation better when it arises than me......can anyone give me any advice. Im at the point where If i cannot fix this i will be forced to sell her to someone who can manage her better:(


ps.. her tack all fits and her teeth were done not so long ago. She is due to have her back done- just waiting on chiro to come visit the yard
box of maltesers for anyone who gets this far ;)
 
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Hi there! Sorry to hear about your problems, I've had a similar thing happen with my mare, it can get pretty dodgy to say the least. If possible, try to get someone to hack out with you (Not always easy!) Everyone wanted to come out with us til my mare got hit by a tractor and trailer, then no-one would help - she was as bombproof as they come before this and it's taken us three years for us both to get some semblance of confidence back. I had the spinning, reversing thing and to combat it, I tried reversing her in the direction I wanted to go in; I just kept going until I could feel she'd had enough, then I turned her around and we carried on. This worked as eventually they will want to stop reversing. Perhaps this could help? I know how scary this is - I also live in a very rural part of Scotland and am surrounded by tractors etc., you must persevere, it might help to get a friend to have a go with her, but after that you will still have to try again yourself. Don't sell her yet! You know she has it in her, she is perhaps just seeing how far she can go with you - or rather - not go - cranky mare syndrome! Best of luck, I am finally getting somewhere with my mare but it has taken a lot of doing. If you are too incredibly nervous, DO get someone to come out with you.
 
After a scary incident with my Clydesdale mare I got a PeeWee bit, which stops the horse turning unless the rider wants it to. I wonder if this would help you.
 
I would get someone to either walk out with you on foot or on pushbike but get them to stay well away from you - then - when she does do it again they can lead her forward (maybe bring headcollar if easier) then when going forward ask person to leave but not too far in case you need them again, get her to go on nicely without the person and when really listening THEN ask her to go home ! hopefully you will only need to do this once or twice.

Another option which some people are not keen on is .. when she messes about -- get off - walk her forward for a few minutes - then get back on - ride her forwad until going nicely then turn for home ( I had to do this with my youngster when he lost confidence - only had to do it twice -worked a treat)

you will get there x
 
My young mare was a bit like this when we first started hacking out alone, not scared just tried it on. I got my friend to walk behind me a bit back with a lunge whip so if she tried to spin/ go back or whatever she was there, also go out really early in the morning so there is no traffic and then so what if she goes across the road she goes where you want. if she goes up on the kerb then let her, if she threatens to rear etc just sit there then ask her to go forwards and thats it. also if she stops circle her and keep her moving. it takes guts i know but stay out as long as it takes
 
I don't think that there is anything to be gained by trying to force your mare, or having someone follow you with a whip.

It sounds like you have been happy in the past and relaxed and become more of a passenger on rides, lots do, as she was doing what you wanted.

Unfortunately with horses, things don't always stay the same and your mare has gradually decided that she is taking the lead in your relationship and has started to make decisions. A lot of which you disagree with, but as she now sees herself as 'in charge', you are forced to do what she decides.

Basically, you need to re establish you role as leader and decision maker.

Lots of ground work, ride with focus. When you are out hacking you decide where she puts her feet. What I mean by this is you choose a line where you want her to walk and not let her deviate from that line. If she tries to spin around to go home, back her a few yards, but keep her facing the direction you want to go. It does take time and there are no quick fixes, but it can be done. She will come round they all do eventually.
 
I suggest trotting. When my youngster cottoned on to the softly softly approach whenever he spooked he soon started taking the p*** with me. He would stop still, then half rear, spin and try to run in the opposite direction. It was taking us 20 minutes go to what should have taken half that time.

I took to sending him forward in trot as soon as I felt a moment of hesitation, so not letting him consider stopping nearly so much. Made a huge difference and now he hacks out fine, only stopping when he is genuinely needing a confidence boost.

I suggest picking up trot a good five minutes away from this spot and really focus on sending her forward, keeping her between your leg and hand. She should then be too busy thinking of going forward, and not about napping.
 
It's called napping, and time and patience is your friend.

Choose your time of day appropriately, and carry a short stick not a schooling whip. Always take her forward in the pace in which you have most control - walk.

If she stops, stand and wait. When she's ready to walk forward do it quietly, with little more than a good girl.

If she spins - just turn her back towards the direction you want to go - and do the above.

And put a standing martial on.

Most important is to make sure you have plenty of time, and main calm.

And repeat daily.
 
Thanks for all your replies....really appreciate your advice ;)

I think we need to re-establish who is boss as my mare is very bolshy. I have been trying to improve her manners over the past week in many respects. Today she stood and waited while i hung her haynet and didnt grab it/swing her head over mine etc. so at least I have something positive to take away today! :D

I think the standing martingale sounds like a great idea (for hacking only) I have never used a pee wee bit but if the problem continues or excalates I may try it. However i think I need to work on her mind rather than the physical in this instance;)
 
meesha said:
I would get someone to either walk out with you on foot or on pushbike but get them to stay well away from you - then - when she does do it again they can lead her forward (maybe bring headcollar if easier) then when going forward ask person to leave but not too far in case you need them again, get her to go on nicely without the person and when really listening THEN ask her to go home ! hopefully you will only need to do this once or twice.

Another option which some people are not keen on is .. when she messes about -- get off - walk her forward for a few minutes - then get back on - ride her forwad until going nicely then turn for home ( I had to do this with my youngster when he lost confidence - only had to do it twice -worked a treat)

you will get there x
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Ditto this advice
 
do you school before you hack out? i started doing this with my mare when I was having trouble with her trying to choose her own route and pace:rolleyes: when it happened to me i was lucky in that i was still in contact with her previous sharer so i asked if she'd ever encountered it and what she'd done:) She suggested a bit of schooling before i went out to get her listening , it didn't solve things instantly but it certainly improved them right from the first time! When we did hack i rode like i was schooling, i hadn't even realised i had 2 styles of riding until then:o.
when she did plant and then reverse (her favourite evasion) i made her back up even more, she didn't like it when it clicked that i was actually controlling the backing up lol, she almost goes forward again stomping her feet like' how dare you make me back up'!!:) And then when she thought that spinning might work i'd pull her on round and around again, she got pretty dizzy and soon decided that in fact it's just easier to go forward;)
 
schooling out on a hack works wonders with spooky ponies. having them listening and on a soft contact they concentrate must better on you than on other things. also picking up the speed usually helps a horse think less about what is around and more about the job in hand. (my pony does this automatically now and when ever is worried about something will trot or really stride forward i think it gives her confidence!)

i will sometimes, if my pony spins, make her walk backwards the way we were going(away from home towards what made her spin) and then turn her back round to face it - by now she is closer to it- and give her the option of walking forward if she spins again then i repeat the process. it makes them think about it being much harder work to not do what mum has asked AND the thing which caused the problem gets closer anyway!

if all else fails for a while i would just not get into an argument with her. ie BEFORE she starts messing around and BEFORE you get to trouble spots get off lead her and then when past what makes her freak get back on and carry along like normal.

you'll get there just takes time.
 
I had the problem with my TB, I tried everything to make him want to like hacking out, new bit= worse, martingale= disaster, company= dangerous, so eventually I then started schooling him, then lead him to the gate afterwards then walked back. Each day extending it. We're now at the stage where I can hack out on my own with him, nice and calm, but still have a lot of problems in company. Not because of the fact he doesn't like the horses, but he can't stand it when he has to wait for everyone! So unless they can keep up at the moment I only go out on my own.

It's worth trying just stripping it right back, inhand, short distances then turning home?

If you want anymore details just PM, I don't want to bore everyone with the long story!
 
I would second the advice about getting off and leading. The point is to get her going forwards so whether you are on top or on the ground she must go forwards.

Something I found useful with a nappy horse was to get a pelham rounding, thread a ring (approx 1.5" diameter ) onto it and then attach each end of the rounding to your bit rings. Carry an extra long lead rope with you and if you have to get off to lead, you can attach the rope to the ring on the pelham rounding. This way you have an even contact on the bit and are not dragging it through her mouth, or you could leave the rope attached and tie it round her neck like a neck strap.
 
elsazzo said:
Thanks for all your replies....really appreciate your advice ;)

I think we need to re-establish who is boss as my mare is very bolshy. I have been trying to improve her manners over the past week in many respects. Today she stood and waited while i hung her haynet and didnt grab it/swing her head over mine etc. so at least I have something positive to take away today! :D

I think the standing martingale sounds like a great idea (for hacking only) I have never used a pee wee bit but if the problem continues or excalates I may try it. However i think I need to work on her mind rather than the physical in this instance;)
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From what you say here, it sounds more and more like a leadership issue with your mare. I'm guessing she invades your space quite a bit, and shows a distinct lack of patience. It is important that she doesn't crowd you and you back her out of your space every time. If she gets you to move your feet it's a thousand points to her in this game. She will continue to up the anti. As far as a martingale or pee wee bit goes a really bolshy horse will fight against it, and I think that it is a mistake to try and confine the movement of a bolshy horse, rather than properly getting to the root of the problem and sorting out what is going on in her head.

Obvoiusly people have different ideas what they want in a horse, and what they will settle for. Personally, I want a willing, compliant horse with the minimum of tack and a push button ride every time. I want the horse to enjoy it's work, not be resentful and not to start playing up if it's not got a martingale on.
 
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Pale Rider said:
Obvoiusly people have different ideas what they want in a horse, and what they will settle for. Personally, I want a willing, compliant horse with the minimum of tack and a push button ride every time. I want the horse to enjoy it's work, not be resentful and not to start playing up if it's not got a martingale on.
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Thats my view now! I tried a martingale, made it worse, was taken off, I tried a stronger bit, made it worse, now just in a snaffle, no gadgets, not even a nsoeband, as it annoys him if he has any restrications. Time and effort (and at some points boredom!) has made my TB into a very happy hacker and I am much more pleased then with strapping gadgets on. And yes, getting off and leading has it's place, some people think your giving in to the horse playing up, your not, he's still goign forward, he's still working, but your putting both of you in a safer way then if you were still on in a dangerous spot.
 
Pale Rider said:
From what you say here, it sounds more and more like a leadership issue with your mare. I'm guessing she invades your space quite a bit, and shows a distinct lack of patience. It is important that she doesn't crowd you and you back her out of your space every time. If she gets you to move your feet it's a thousand points to her in this game. She will continue to up the anti. As far as a martingale or pee wee bit goes a really bolshy horse will fight against it, and I think that it is a mistake to try and confine the movement of a bolshy horse, rather than properly getting to the root of the problem and sorting out what is going on in her head.

Obvoiusly people have different ideas what they want in a horse, and what they will settle for. Personally, I want a willing, compliant horse with the minimum of tack and a push button ride every time. I want the horse to enjoy it's work, not be resentful and not to start playing up if it's not got a martingale on.
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Thanks again everyone:)

Yes I agree with you Pale Rider. I am not one for slapping on lots of gadgets-mainly because my mare is very intelligent and sensitive and I believe the gadgets are like fighting fire with fire and I will never be able to over power her.....plus she is a belgian WB and built like a tank!!!:o

I will try again today and lead her past the scary place (and when we come home she will have to work hard in the school so she gets i out of her head that we just head home and works over:D). Im not sure if i will be able to remount from the ground as im a bit 'stiff' lol but even if i dont- just to get her past the scary place will be good enough. Also if shes monkeying around I think i will bring her back and make her work hard in the school. Iv figured out she is -as the Americans call it 'barn sour' and she would just rather be back at the yard. But thats her all over- always wants to do what se wants to do but we are working on that already!

ps. she is not 'spooky' shes actually quite a brave horse and is not easily frightened but i think when she out on a hack shes thinking 'i'd rather be with my herd and in the safety of the yard' so when she is already in that mindset it doesnt take much to make her think ***** this im going home!!! :O:D
 
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sitch said:
And yes, getting off and leading has it's place, some people think your giving in to the horse playing up, your not, he's still goign forward, he's still working, but your putting both of you in a safer way then if you were still on in a dangerous spot.
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I did this with my COW of a mare on Sunday and I ended up walking for nearly 4 miles - we were on a circular route and no way was I turning her back on her self while I was on foot ! ! I just can not get her to go away from home some days on foot - this is a route she has done many times before both with other horses and on her own on a good day but Saturday you would have thought I was leading her to the dragons den !!

It started 2 mins into the hack jsut after we crossed the busy road ! It is like she knows that if I play up here it will really scare you as all these trucks seem to be going at least 60 mph past us. I tried waiting so she tried dancing spinning and backing up. I got off and walked her down the lane all the time worried that if she wanted to she could get away from me and just dash out across the road once we were 5 mins further down the track and past a gate I tried to get on as I got my foot in the stirrup she would spin so I'd start again ! I admit I lost my rag a little and she she got a clout round the arse with my stick. finally managed to get on board and she spun round rearing dancing panicing and tried to buck me off - all the time I am still worried about her getting me off and running for that road.

so I jump off again and walk further

I finnally managed to get back on when we are 20 mins from home and she pranced like a Lima the whole way home dispite me trying leg yield half holts loose rein etc

I actually feel like selling her today, my shoulders are absolutely killing me where she tried pulling away from me . I've had her 10 years but I can't be doing with all this messing about these days - or perhaps send her away, really gutted as I had been enjoying her recently.

All teeth back etc checked and she was wearing a standing martingale- it's just her head that needs looking at :-(
 
In the past, everytime you got to the same spot you said you gave her a good whack with a schooling whip to push her on? Could it be that she now, on approach, anticipates this "good whack" and tries to avoid it - with this new learned behaviour? Horses learn by cause and effect, not negative reinforcement.
 
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