At my wits end!! - Help needed for horse spinning/refusing?

[BlairandAzria]

OK so apologies this has run pretty long:

So horse is 14, but very green. Unsure of his early history although know he spent the 3 years prior to me owning him sat in a field doing absolutely nothing. I’ve had him 2 years, he’s an ex-pacer, although he hardly paces at all anymore, has a decent trot and getting there canter, hes pretty scopey the height isn’t an issue for him at all.

Took him to a camp this past weekend – weather was gorgeous  I struggle with my confidence jumping but over the past 6 months have tried really hard to get out and do a bit more jumping with him, even if its just a clear round or cross pole class, I figured that any nice clear confident building round is good experience. We have had issues with fillers, in that he will get super close then spin and refuse (often ditching me in the process), this issue is not resolved at all, I just haven’t pushed it and went back to staying within his comfort zone of jumps about 2ft3, poles, spreads, doubles etc all fine – just no fillers and hes been doing really well .

We’ve done a little tiny bit of xc, always with an instructor. Last time I went to Somerford xc I was panicking, very frightened, but got on with it and the horse flew absolutely everything, tyres, log piles, water, small roll-top etc, didn’t look and not once did he spin or even think about refusing (even though I was bricking it most of the time). So I kindof thought my jumping issues where possibly confined to showjumping (maybe the coloured poles and fillers were putting him off?) and that xc was going to be his thing .

Well….roll on this past weekend and we’re back at somerford. XC I’d taken a couple of kalms and was feeling really positive about it, there was a group of 4 of us and we popped over a little log a couple of times (easy peasy, trot and pop –totally fine) then went to a slightly bigger, but still little roll-top (must have been 2f3 max)let him have a look at it, sniff it and took him up to it, and again totally flew it, took him over it a few more times each time fine. Then we moved to a little jump of 3 logs together, still small,if not smaller than the roll-top, took him up to it, let him sniff it, then cantered up to it and he got quite close to it but popped it just fine, I then took him round again to go straight back over it. He was in a nice canter, I felt secure my heels were down, my lower leg secure, my shoulders back and felt mentally positive – in my mind I was already over it, he was travelling really nicely, taking me into it (getting a little strong if anything, but not overly) his ears were pricked forward, when he went to take off, got 2 feet off the ground then suddenly spun 180 degrees and I went tumbling out the side door and glanced off the jump . Luckily I had my kan and a friends point 2 over it – so the point 2 inflated and I walked away totally fine except for a slightly stiff neck, I feel bad for one of the mums of one of the kids in my group who didn’t realise I had an air jacket on and thought the crack of it inflating was my back breaking as I hit the jump  (thank goodness it wasn’t).

So my issue is, that I had been assuming that all my jumping woes were because I am a total wimp and the horse was obviously feeling that, being green he lacks the experience and confidence in himself and needs me to man up, every other time he’s span at a jump I know that I was sat there thinking *oh god oh god oh god, don’t spin don’t spin* and I know I have transferred that anxiety to him. But this time, I really do not feel like I was panicked at all, I felt calm and confident, my lower leg was secure, I wasn’t in front of the movement, the instructor said she didn’t see it coming and didn’t think I did anything wrong at all – so im massively disheartened and don’t really know where to turn next?

Does anyone have any experience with a horse that does this – gets in super close than at the last minute says no? any idea how to combat it?

And what do I do now, should I just keep trying? Taking him over tiny weany logs all summer? Should I get someone decent to ride him over some fences (although I don’t really think this would help me that much? But might help him?)

or just give up for 6 months, work really hard on his flat work and get his canter a lot stronger and then come back to jumping later in the year (although I kindof feel that if I take a break the tiny strand of confidence I’m hanging onto by a thread might have vanished if I leave it too long)

So sorry this is a pretty epic long post, any advice or hints or experience very much appreciated!

 

[Kokopelli]

I ride a mare that spins for England, its so difficult to sit too but when she jumps its amazing. (13.2 jumping 1.15m tracks.)

If I was in your position I would get someone experienced who isn't going to send nerves to your boy to jump him for a bit to give him the confidence he is lacking. In the meantime keep the jumps at your comfort zone and make jumping as fun and easy as you can. When approaching the fence sit up and make sure you don't jump the fence before him. Do you have a neckstrap? When I'm riding the little mare I find just holding my neckstrap on approach to something that worries me gives me the confidence to kick on and make her do it.

I would also suggest approaching the fences incredibly slowly at 2ft3 they can walk over it. Going a bit slower on the little mare means I can stop the spin and make her jump it from a standstill. I don't mind if she stops but shes not allowed to spin. Does your boy always go to one direction or does it vary? If its always one way for example to the left use huge amount of left leg and maybe carry a stick in your left hand to use lightly down the shoulder. Raising your left hand would also help block the shoulder.

 

[BlairandAzria]

Thanks for your reply Koko Now that you mention it, i hadnt thought if he always nips to one side, but on the occasions i can recall clearly he has span left every time so ill try and raise my left hand, i do carry a stick but rarely use it, so actually a little tap down the left side might focus him a little?

Neck strap is a *doh* kind of moment too - why didnt i think of using one? seems like a very sensible idea!

Thanks

 

[kerilli]

That's all really good advice... I'd also say though, imho horses usually have a physical reason for pulling this kind of extreme stunt. Jumping is FUN if horses feel great (as long as they don't get socked in the teeth etc... which I'm not suggesting that you are doing) whereas spinning and running off (and the possible consequences) are less fun... and of course sometimes horses that don't feel great will still jump for fun. (I sat on 1 who had been round Burghley with only 1 run out and I swear to god I don't know which leg it was lame on, I strongly suspect there was only 1 good one.)
If you can, I would get him checked over. This sort of thing can be an indicator.
Re: your nerves... it is easy to be brave on an honest, brave horse! There's no rocket science to it. A spinner/stopper undermines the confidence... so, can you find another horse to ride for a bit (a schoolmaster type) to give you confidence?

 

[TarrSteps]

Second ail k's very good advice.

I worked with a horse in an almost identical situation, right down to the previous job, a couple of years ago - in his case it was hocks. So long as he was properly maintained he was fine.

 

[DabDab]

You've got loads of good advice here but I was also add that I have had two in for schooling that did this trick after their owners had checked them for every ailment in the book. One of them was a thoroughbred who had slipped badly on wet grass while jumping a couple of years before and had spun and refused intermittently ever since, and the other was an ISH who had landed badly and pulled a shoe off couple of months before coming to me and had refused every fence since. With both of them it was the memory of pain/distress rather than any current pain.
With both of them it was firm but quiet riding into small fences for quite a while because chasing them into a fence just reinforced the panicky response. Grid work was really beneficial too. Little and often was definitely the name of the game so that popping over a few jumps was just the most normal in the world.
Good luck

 

[BlairandAzria]

Thanks for all the advice, tarr steps and kerilli what kind of thing should once looking for? He's sound as a pound at the moment (touches wood frantically!) I have a good chiro who I rate highly would that maybe a good starting point?

Dabdab I'm leaning towards maybe he just lacks confidence in himself and in me, and that maybe your suggestion of just doing little jumps until it is routine might be a good idea. It might help my confidence too maybe if we just get used to doing littlies without any drama.

Thanks

 

[morrismob]

We had a horse who did this. He had competed successfully ( most of the time) to intermediate level, bought him as schoolmaster for daughter, he started this trick of going to jump then slamming down and whipping off the the left very quickly. He was also strong. We spoke to one of his professional riders who said she really rated him but never quite got in his head.

We had him fully checked over by vet including a full lameness workout and also by a physio and chiro nothing was found. We took him to a clinic with Pippa Funnell and he was perfect until about 3 jumps in, he then started doing his party trick. Pippa was fab and ended up borrowing a hat and riding him herself and he did it again and again at which point she said he was doing her confidence no good at all. He is now in a dressage home and doing really well but we never got to the bottom of it but no physical issue could be found.

I would second other people in jumping on a confidence giver and keeping it small. It may well help getting someone on him to jump him if only to help you realise it isn't you but him. It so helped my daughter to see him try it on with someone like Pippa, not sure she would see it the same way !

Our horse was fab but only when it suited him. Don't lose heart, get the vet out have him checked out and go from there.

 

[ellie_e]

Mine used to spin, and boy was he quick, however he now rears vertically!! I always thought it was a confidence issue as believe he was pushed too much as a youngster and still think to this day it has a part to play however I took a sound horse to the vets for a performance work up as physio treatment led nowhere. After lots of X-rays, nerve blocks and a bone scan, he was diagnosed with bilateral psd and had a course of shockwavw treatment, so time doing simple walk, trot and 6months on, is now 100% better! Happy to work, which he never was before. I'm not saying this is the case for your horse, but if he's insured I would get vet to do a full work up. At least you then know if there's nothing wrong you can crack on with the schooling without having that niggle in the back of your mind. I went 18months before getting vets help, and wish I had done it sooner!

 

[BlairandAzria]

Thank you so much for your replies. Lots to think about there!