At my wits end - please help

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Lb1996

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I apologise in advance for the long story but I really don't know what to do anymore and would really appreciate any help I can get.

Last June my horse kept throwing the towel in at his events and this caused me so much upset as I put so much blood sweat and tears into this horse to make my dreams come through. Without going to in to it, we decided that that horse was not going to help me achieve the goals id worked so hard for and was so hungry for.

2016 would be my last year in an age category and my amazing mum somehow scraped together the money to buy me a top school master so I could have a good last year in the class and have a real chance at achieving our dreams. We heard of a pony and after seeing pictures and videos we fell in love with him and although he was only 8 he had done a lot and was really keen to his fences which is what I needed as my confidence wasn't great after my other horse. My mum paid for me and someone who knows their stuff to travel 8 hours to see the pony. The pony was at a girls yard as the son of the owner who had ridden him was away at uni so the pony had been sent to this girl to compete.. Made sense to us. When we were on our way they said that their arena was flooded we'd have to come see him at a show they were at. Although it irrating we had no option as already half way there. When we tried him in a busy warm up arena with tons of other horses he was so relaxed and seemed to be exactly what we were looking for. We jumped him around a course after the show had finished and he was great. He was a little but sharp but nothing unusual. We decided to buy him subject to 5 stage vetting which he passed with flying colours. He was not cheap. (5 figures..)

A few weeks after trying him he arrived and the first time I rode him with my instructor he bolted with me twice in the arena. She said not to worry we just needed to get to know each other and not to expect things to be perfect straight away and she put the bolting down to sharpness and a new environment and my nerves. Over the next month more of the same kept happening. Anytime you got him in deep to a fence he would bolt after the fence. But he did come on and as my instructor was riding him almost every time I did and was helping me with him things seemed to be going well with him. My instructor was going away for a month in August so we decided to put him out on grass and let him have a holiday.

At the end of his holiday he went straight from the field to a new yard where I would be keeping him. The first time I rode him there he went really well as usual. The next day I rode him we were trotting across the diagonal and all of a sudden for no reason he bolted around the arena, I was so scared he was going to fall and I was petrified. After a few laps he went straight into the metal gate of the arena and galloped down the road eventually stopping. I jumped straight off and completely shaken walked him back to the arena. I decided to get back on and just walk him around cause I figured something had frightened him and after three laps of walk he went from completely chilled out walking on a loose rein to bolting blind again. I had to option but to jump off for my own safety as I have never been so scared in my life. The day after I lunged him and he was chilled out so I got on him and as soon as I felt him tense up I jump off and when I was half way off he bolted, throwing me into the arena fence.

I didn't ride him again until after is got his back done. The back person said he was slightly right on the right side of his back but nothing too bad. As he was warmblood we figured he must have been really sensitive and was being a whimp. She told me to walk him on a loose rein the first day which I did and he was fine. The next day as soon as I trotted he bolted and fell over on a corner. I had his back done again incase the fall had hurt him but still nothing. I had his teeth checked which we're perfect apparently. I was too scared to even sit on him so got a girl who has ridden millions of problem horses to ride him for a bit. He bolted on the flat the first time with her but she managed to pull him up and he didn't do it again. He stopped then bolted when she tried to canter him over some poles. This is a horse who has a clean competition record and was out competing over big fences before we bought him.. She continued to ride him for the next few weeks and one day when she was jumping a spread he bolted after it and put her over the arena fence. She continued to work with him but he just got worse and worse.

Someone suggested it might be ulcers which a&e sense that the acid may be burning him over a fence causing him to bolt. I clung to the hope that it was ulcers and he could be cured and go back to normal. We had him scoped and disappointingly he showed up with only grade 1 ulcers which the vet said wouldn't be causing the discomfort. None the less we put him on a
Course of gastogaurd 'just in case'. The whole ulcer job cost us about £600.

After he finished his ulcer treatment started lunging him everyday. Since we've had him he tends to go dissunited behind on the lunge and struggles to canter on the lunge. This has gotten worse and worse and he has now started bolting on the lunge
Too and doing 'bunny hops' with his back legs and constantly going disunited. I was told these are all signs of kissing spine.

Suddenly a penny dropped. Could this pony have been injected for his kissing spine before we bought him and as the injection has been wearing off he's been getting worse and worse? I'm told that kissing spines can't develop as quickly as the amount of time I've had him so perhaps it would make sense.

How has this happened, he is not the pony I tried all those months ago. I am so devastated and upset and stressed, I really can't see a way out. It's unfair to ask my mum to put in more money to see if he has kissing spines, never mind treat it. We were only meant to have him one year to compete before I was too old for his height catagory, then he was too sell at the end of this season . I really tried to build a bond with him and on the ground and he is such a sweet sweet person and I'm really fond of him but he causes me so much pain and upset.

He is not insured. He is completely unridable. I have wasted so much of my mums money on him. I have no chance of achieving anything I have dreamed of for so long. I feel so guilty that my mum invested to make my dreams a reality and now all we have an unridable, unsellable pony.

( I'm so sorry about the essay I don't blame anyone for not even having the time to read it )
 
Did you speak to his previous owner to run past them what was happening?

How does he go for your instructor?

Has he had a full veterinary work up since all this started?

Could this little horse simply be too much for you?
 
Ok, well yes it does sound like he is in pain. how long ago did you buy him? did you buy him from a dealer? A vet work up may be worth yoru money as there may be something you can do to treat him and improve things - I would not ride him until ithis is resolved.
 
Were blood tests taken as part of his vetting? That would be normal and it would be normal for those bloods to be kept for 6 months by the vet you employed to vet the pony. Get them analysed.
 
Did you get vetinary advice before giving the gastroguard?

Unfortunately the only advice I can give is you need to get a vet in. It sounds like a pain reaction.

I used to work at a rehab yard and we had almost exactly the same thing. A teenager and her mum purchased their dream pony and he kept bolting. The final straw was he threw her off and then trampled her. He came to us, the first thing we noted was the saddle didn't fit. The saddle the previous owners sent him with probably wasn't the one they had used on him. It was too long and knocked into his spine. We gave him a 3 month break, had a saddle refitted and a full lameness work out and scans. I will try and find out his file ( it's been 8 years now!) but he had a problem with his cervical vertebrae. It took a further 8 month of rehab but he did come sound. Unfortunately he was too much for the owners and they sold him, but he sold sound with a five stage vetting and has been fine since.
 
I'm very scared to contact the old owner as the woman was very difficult to deal with during the sale and I don't want to be accused of ruining her beloved pony :(

What exactly is a vet write up and how much does it usually cost? Do 5 stage bettongs take a blood sample? I thought you had to pay extra and request it

The gastrogaurd was recommended and prescribed by the vet, he was only on half a syringe a day for two weeks and I've followed the vets recommended feeding regeim since.

My instructor events at 4* level has years of experience with young and difficult horses and she is completely baffled by him too she really doesn't know what's wrong with him. She thinks it may be a mental problem but also kissing spines. We have done nothing to him in the time we've had him to bring on such an extreme 'mental problem' I promise you.

Yes we know we have made a huge mistake by not insuring straight away. We have learnt our lesson I assure you.

Just reading back on my post, I really don't mean to come across like a spoilt kid who bought an expensive pony I can't ride. This is the first time we've ever spent over 4000 for a horse. We don't have that kind of money, it was an inheritance. All my previous ponies have been bought on from youngsters by myself. I was able for him at the start when he was just sharp and a bit quirky but this is extreme. He even put said instructor over the arena fence..

We've had the saddle checked as soon as the bolting started and have changed to another saddle the fitter said to.

Thank you for all your helpful comments
 
Have a good read up on your buyers rights, the seller, be it a dealer or private has responsibilities to sell a horse as described and fit for purpose.

Don't be afraid and get your parents involved this should be dealt with properly.
 
Sounds like a reaction to pain...I'd be getting a specialist equine vet to look at him and would be getting his back x-rayed. Bloods should have been taken for a five stage vetting and are stored for six months. What was his competition record like till you bought him? Had he been out competing regularly? Hope you can find a solution.
 
A 5 stage vetting does usually include taking and storing blood but it is only kept for 6 months before being disposed of, you are well past that now unfortunately, your options are becoming more limited as time goes on, we all learn from making mistakes and it seems you have made a few and possibly not been that well advised along the way, your trainer should have been more proactive and helpful once things started going wrong especially regarding testing the bloods but you now need to look forward and try and get out of this mess if at all possible.

A vet workup will not be too expensive, ensure they know the pony is not insured, if KS is suspected then xrays to confirm will be simple enough then you will know what you are dealing with if anything is found, only then can you make a decision as to where you go, if he needs an operation that needs to be fully discussed with consideration given to the rehab before sending him in, it may be that you and your parents decide not to do any more.

I do think the previous owner must be made aware of what has gone on, they may be difficult but if they did sell you a pony with behavioural or physical issues you may still have come back on them and this needs to be considered although in reality you have little chance of winning after all this time, if she really loved the pony she would have wanted the opportunity to advise and help as soon as you were having problems even if she felt it was your fault she should have been happy to offer some words of encouragement and possibly give you the chance to find the key to him, if there is one .
 
Gosh I really feel for you what a horrid situation to be in. Slightly different but I bought a horse for £4K which was a huge amount of money for me only to find it was a known rearer and unrideable and worthless. But I remember feeling sick to my stomach about the whole thing especially the finances and you do not come across as spoilt at all.

You will never know whether this was a previous problem, whether the owners knew etc etc also there is no point dwelling on that. If you feel brave enough to contact the old owner then do so as any extra info would help but I highly doubt she will have anything helpful to say and will likely be defensive if she genuinely has had no problems or knowingly sold a problem.

Yes it could be kissing spines but it could be numerous other things. It could be his sacriollac, it could be neurological etc. It sounds very much like he's in pain judging by the way he has worsened on the lunge.

To be honest you have few options if money is tight. He sounds dangerous and I would not be riding him again without a diagnosis. I think you need to either

A) Cut your losses and PTS. Don't be tempted to sell him on for a nominal fee- he will end up hurting someone or worse being drugged up and sold on.
B) Turn him away for a year (though I suspect that if it is something like KS this will not help at all) and re start him and see what you have.

Or C, the most obvious and preferable one- work up at the vets. You could start by getting some slides done of his back though you do need to be aware that plenty of horses will show some or a degree of KS and it is not always of clinical significance. You ideally need to block the back as well to see if there is ridden improvement.

I mean this in the kindest way but if you do not have the lump sums of money for vet treatment or diagnostics for a horse then you really should insure it, you would be in a much better position now if you had.
 
I would start with a good equine vet check,depending on what facilities your local vet has they may need him to be seen at Rossdales or similar. What you describe esp with the recent symptoms sounds pain related and he's probably been struggling for a while. I bought a horse that also passed a five stage vetting g and with knowledge I have now was probably struggling with psd way before I bought her but v tolerant....I know it's too late now but I'm surprised your mum didn't get the horse insured having spent so much but we all learn the hard way and hopefully your horse can be diagnosed and treated.
 
it sounds like a very frustrating situation, but don't lose hope. Kissing spine or some issue in the hocks was what i thought reading it. would be worth sending in for xrays and a check up. I had one that had issues cantering on the lunge too and would explode and it turned out to be sacrolilliac injury, which was fixed by injection and physio. I have had two with kissing spine that both were treated by injections that were very affordable, and both came right and were rideable again.

Dont give up hope, he may still come right. You haven't wasted your mums money, you were just very unlucky, you weren't to know. It is well worth getting some xrays done and seeing what a proper vet check turns up.

And you are so young, you have way more time and opportunities than you think to achieve your goals, don't get downhearted. Horses can be heartbreaking at times, and if you have to get used to the highs and lows as things never go to plan. Your plan might go haywire for a year, but you will get back on track, even if it doesn't seem like it now because you are so stressed.
 
how terribly sad for you, your mum and of course the poor horse.

I think you need to sit down and have a chat with your mum .. maybe show her this thread - there are lots of experienced commentators on it, and then she can decide whether to go down the route of a vet work up - maybe speak to the vet first and get a costing so you know apx what it will cost. At least that way you know what you are dealing with, and whether it is fixable or not ... having spent that much the horse is probably worth that investment as at least you will know what you are dealing with and whether it is treatable. Lots of conditions are treatable ...

horses are heartbreaking ... best laid plans and all of that ... but don't give up, you could still get a good, ridable horse out of all of this. best of luck.
 
I think the first thing you need to do is have a chat with your mum. Hopefully she is the understanding sort, and you can talk to her. Ask if there is any cash to get the vet to look at the horse.

I have used thermal imaging before to help pinpoint where a problem is on the horse. This costs around £100 to do the whole horse. It can also check saddle fit as well. In your case it could be worth doing, but bear in mind its not fool proof.

If your mum does have some cash for the vets, I would suggest you sit down with her, and decide what you want diagnostics you want doing on the horse. You can ask on here and people will help. As a basic lameness work up, I'd be aiming for blocking the legs to see if pain is coming from there. X-rays of back and hocks to see if anything is going off in there. If horse does appear to have KS you can get their back injected with steroids which will shoe you if this is the problem or not.

Make sure the vet knows exactly how much you've got to spend first, so they don't rack you up a huge bill. You are also best to get the horse straight into one of the large veterinary hospitals where the equipment is all there; unlike some of the smaller ones where you turn up, having asked for a certain scan to be done, only to be told you will need to come back another day as its gone out with another vet
 
Oh dear OP what an awful situation :( You don't come across as sounding spoiled at all, but I have to reiterate what other posters have said, I can't fathom spending that much on a horse and not having it insured. What's done is done though, and I agree that you either need to cut your losses and PTS or have a decent work up done by the vet. A friend's horse was disunited in canter and had 'behavioural issues', he was eventually diagnosed with arthritis in the hocks as well as stifle injuries and a muscle disorder, I would definitely have a look at his back end and back first.
Fingers crossed something can be salvaged of this situation. It sounds as if you feel guilty for your lovely mum having spent so much money with no real reward, but you weren't to know things would go so wrong. Be easy on yourself.
 
When initially he got too deep into a fence he reacted and as a result there could be numerous and even snowball effect reasons why he is getting on like he is now.

I think this confidence is knocked and that this may be the main root of the problem. He sounds like a valuable pony and his previous training/riding may have involved placing him to a fence with accuracy, then when he got into a bit of trouble and got too deep, it burst his bubble and has resulted in him reacting for 'no reason'.

Being ridden by a problem horse rider doesn't always work.

There are certainly learned behaviours going on, a knock of confidence and just to cover everything, potential physical issues. I recommend you go back to the seller, explain the issues and see what they say. Quality ponies always have a market.

I don't think you've been conned or deceived and I wish you all the very best.
 
Given that horse does not currently have any diagnosis of physical problem could it be insured for vets fees? The behavioural stuff probably means LOU insurance would be out but the OP doesn't know it has any physical problems at all and it did pass a relatively recent vetting.

A bunch of strangers on the web saying the behavioural stuff might be physical is different to if OP had had a vet say it is it?
 
ThursdayNext said:
Given that horse does not currently have any diagnosis of physical problem could it be insured for vets fees? The behavioural stuff probably means LOU insurance would be out but the OP doesn't know it has any physical problems at all and it did pass a relatively recent vetting.
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Yes VF, LOU, LOA should be available, as well as PL.
 
ThursdayNext said:
Given that horse does not currently have any diagnosis of physical problem could it be insured for vets fees? The behavioural stuff probably means LOU insurance would be out but the OP doesn't know it has any physical problems at all and it did pass a relatively recent vetting.

A bunch of strangers on the web saying the behavioural stuff might be physical is different to if OP had had a vet say it is it?
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Unfortunately insurance will not pay out on pre-existing conditions. So as soon as the owner tells the vet how long the behavior has been going on for and how it has deteriorated over time then I think the insurance will say it is a pre-existing condition.
 
ThursdayNext said:
Given that horse does not currently have any diagnosis of physical problem could it be insured for vets fees? The behavioural stuff probably means LOU insurance would be out but the OP doesn't know it has any physical problems at all and it did pass a relatively recent vetting.

A bunch of strangers on the web saying the behavioural stuff might be physical is different to if OP had had a vet say it is it?
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Insuring the horse now would be fraud .
 
It sounds like there are a lot of issues here OP. My daughter has just come out of BS Juniors (which is where I suspect from your post you are) and over the years we learned more than we expected to! Higher level competition ponies really do not ride like a lower level pony and you may have over horsed yourself a bit. Equally the top line ponies in each height class are very sought after - for exactly the same reasons as you bought this one - so one for open sale rather than through the BS Academy is always going to be a bit odd. But you don't usually find that out before you buy the first one! Then these ponies do tend to get a bit hammered because the rider's chance on them is relatively short. So you see a lot go sour or break down. Then finally it takes a fair time to build a relationship with a horse especially if you don't have the experience of a larger string where - with the best will in the world - they are a bit more like tools that you learn to get on a get a tune out of,or sell and find one you can. Any or all of these could be involved with this one.

What ever happened - the behavior is extreme and now dangerous. And there almost certainly is some pain there -probably a lot. But just from experience with these types of ponies I would guess there is a mental element too - for both of you. But you need to get the pain bit fixed first. Or - as another poster has said - you are going to have to take the brave decision to PTS because he can't be sold like this. If you are already in your local BS academy talk to your regional co-ordinator. They may be able to get some background on the pony from its previous area. But that is going to be peripheral to sorting the pain now.

Then - take the pressure off you. As a Mum I do sympathise with where you are and what your dreams mean to you. But you have a load of school pressure now too. And much as BS Juniors seems the be all and end all - actually it isn't. There is a riding life, and a great competition life, beyond that. (Reading this back I can just hear my daughter's "Aw Mum..." response. None the less it's true!) Whether with this pony if he can be fixed or with another. Don't rule out things like Eventing where the "junior" programme is under 18, not 16 and continues into an U25 band. Or Pony Club which also draws no distinction before 25. Or change off all together and head for things like Le Trec - we had an ex-BS friend who switched to reining and is loving it.

I know it must feel like the end of the world right now - and for you that is absolutely true for where you are. But as best you can take comfort from an older head. This too will pass and there are other things out there. We build our new dreams both on the dreams we succeed with and the experience we gain from those that fail. Take heart!
 
ThursdayNext said:
Given that horse does not currently have any diagnosis of physical problem could it be insured for vets fees? The behavioural stuff probably means LOU insurance would be out but the OP doesn't know it has any physical problems at all and it did pass a relatively recent vetting.i

A bunch of strangers on the web saying the behavioural stuff might be physical is different to if OP had had a vet say it is it?
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That would be fraud. The owner knows there is an issue and must declare the behaviour when insuring. The insurers will then, rightly, refuse to pay out on the investigations.

It's behaviour like you are suggesting that makes insurance too expensive for other people.

OP I am so sorry you are in this situation, it has wrecked your dreams and you are so young. I feel for you. But I can tell you there are still fun times ahead. I didn't do anything affiliated until I was in my thirties and I had a ball when I did.
 
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Thank you all so much for your kind replies and comments. I really appreciate them and it has put things slightly into perspective for me. It's a horrible situation to be in but at the end of the day my family are well and life will go on I just need to take a deep breathe and try figure this all out. I know I will get upset seeing all my friends out competing this Easter but I need to grow up and get over it.

I spoke to the vets who vetted him for us this morning and they said that they did take bloods during his vetting and they are currently finding out if they still exist but the lady seemed pretty confident they would. At least the option would be there to have them tested to see if anything was in his system at the time of purchase purely for peace of mind more than anything else. I'm not expecting anything to show up in all honesty. They also said that he had been treated by that practice in the last as the horses current owner I have the right to see his previous vet records with the old owners permission. I'm sure it will probably just be his vaccination records but if I muster the courage to contact the old owner I will ask her permission.

Have also contacted my own vets and am waiting for a call back to have a chat about what he thinks and our options on the veterinary side and their costs.

Although my mum is aware of what's going on I will sit down and speak to her properly after I hear back from the vets. She has a lot of things going on in her life at the mo and is quite stressed so I've been trying not to put this on her and upset her more.

Also last night I did a Facebook search of the pony's name and came across 3 different for sale adverts from 3 different people over the last year. They all had the owners number on them but she told us he had just gone to the one girl to be sold. And yes he was out competing when we bought him. There are videos on YouTube of him competing shortly before we bought him, he looks just how he did when we tried him and for that first month.

Only last week we buted him up for three days which made no difference what so ever to him.
 
Op there is a way to get to the bottom of this and it's been hinted by others here. You have a network on HHO that you can use. If that pony cost four figures then he is a well known competition pony in the area he used to live. Where was that? There are jumping people on here from that part of the country who will know him. You could go into competing and training and put a thread up saying 'need help from jumpers in X area' and then say what the problem is like here and ask jumpers there who are in the know about the region to PM you. That way you can find out if he was known for these problems before his sale.

I really feel for you but also please be careful, riding is great fun but also very dangerous. And when it gets dangerous is when a person ends up having to deal with a pony like yours. My advice is don't ride him, leave it to the pros until you have figured this problem out.
 
Lb1996 said:
I spoke to the vets who vetted him for us this morning and they said that they did take bloods during his vetting and they are currently finding out if they still exist but the lady seemed pretty confident they would. At least the option would be there to have them tested to see if anything was in his system at the time of purchase purely for peace of mind more than anything else. I'm not expecting anything to show up in all honesty. They also said that he had been treated by that practice in the last as the horses current owner I have the right to see his previous vet records with the old owners permission. I'm sure it will probably just be his vaccination records but if I muster the courage to contact the old owner I will ask her permission.

Have also contacted my own vets and am waiting for a call back to have a chat about what he thinks and our options on the veterinary side and their costs.

.
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Im sorry about your problem, a bit lost with the above. Was he vetted by the same practice that also dealt with his previous owner? If so that would make me a little suspicious.

I appreciate he is dangerous but what would happen if you just took him for a ride, no jumping, no lunging, no school. Either led off another horse to start with and then just ridden, slowly, calmly, with another horse and mooching around the lanes/tracks letting him just chill out, eat off the banks and see if he enjoys himself. The reactions you describe are violent but could he simply be so very sour after a long time being made to compete? (obviously don't get hurt) Is there a YouTube link to the videos?
 
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