At my wits end - please help

also to add, presumably you have his passport? if he has changed homes in the past the previous owners will be listed. Why not start at the beginning, contact them and see what his real story is? It may give you some ideas
 
Irish gal- thank you that's a really good idea I may do that!

Yes it turns out that the practice who vetted him for us also dealt with him. We had no knowledge of that at the time of vetting aswe asked a friend who's near the area for her vet and went through them but the area we bought him from is quite remote and it seems there's only two equine practices within two hours of them.

We tried hacking him out after Christmas both on his own and with another (very calm!) horse. Whenever something would change like we'd meet a walker on the road he would tense up then either spin or bolt. As if the pain came when he tensed. I ended up on my back on the road and in serious pain and it was from then really I decided he was too dangerous to ride and id lost all my nerve and desire to want to ride him so just lunged him since then.

He was ok to lunge at the start just struggleing a bit in canter and kept going disunited but it just got worse and worse quite quickly..
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
I'm sorry you have had a tough time, but why oh why have you spent a 5 figure sum and not got insurance??
Can you not get a vet work up?
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My thoughts exactly. You are really limited now, unless you are prepared to put a lot of money into diagnostic. Had you had him 5 stage vetted and had bloods, you could have had those analysed given that he started playing up straight away. Hard lesson to learn hun.
 
ycbm said:
It's not reliable for backs or sacroiliac, my vet told me.
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If you gave a horse two or three bute a day on a bute trial it would certainly minimise any undesirable behaviour to the extent that you would know if it was a pain related behaviour or whether the behavoiour was pychological in nature.
 
Not sure if it's any help, or an avenue to explore but if you have a 5 stage vetting certificate it should say on the front page "Declaration of prior knowledge of this horse's clinical history" with 1) the seller (or selling agent) is/is not a client of practice; 2) the horse has/has not previously been attended by me or vet practice 3) the horse's veterinary history known to me may/may not/does not increase the risk of purchase.

That's from a vetting I had done in December and appears to be the standard approved BEVA/RCVS/Vet Council of Ireland form. If they've filled this in correctly then you can't do anything, but if they haven't it obviously won't help immediately with the horse's problems but might be worth looking into.
 
frostyfingers said:
Not sure if it's any help, or an avenue to explore but if you have a 5 stage vetting certificate it should say on the front page "Declaration of prior knowledge of this horse's clinical history" with 1) the seller (or selling agent) is/is not a client of practice; 2) the horse has/has not previously been attended by me or vet practice 3) the horse's veterinary history known to me may/may not/does not increase the risk of purchase.

That's from a vetting I had done in December and appears to be the standard approved BEVA/RCVS/Vet Council of Ireland form. If they've filled this in correctly then you can't do anything, but if they haven't it obviously won't help immediately with the horse's problems but might be worth looking into.
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That's interesting I didn't know that.

OP, as someone else has said competition animals are a whole different animal, even with out physical problems. I know people who have spent lots more than you, took all the right advice and still had problems.
Your mum will not want you injured, turn him away while you get more information and try and get someone to loan/share a horse with you so you do not feel so left out. Try and find something safe rather than smart and have some fun, you may not be competing at a high level but you can get a lot of pleasure from getting the best out an average pony.
 
I think I am correct that if a vet carries out a pre purchase vetting on a horse that is the property of one of his/her existing clients he/she is only permitted to do that vetting if the vendors agree to release the full veterinary history to the purchasers and that history must then form part of the vets decision when assessing whether the horse if fit for the job the purchaser requires. If this was not done then that vet has contravened the RCVS guidelines.
 
paddy555 said:
also to add, presumably you have his passport? if he has changed homes in the past the previous owners will be listed. Why not start at the beginning, contact them and see what his real story is? It may give you some ideas
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Not all owners bother to update passports and many issuing bodies actually remove previous owners details when they update with a new owner.
 
Yes, full veterinary history with the practice should have been disclosed but if he was in a different place for sale I guess the vet might not have seen the pony before?

OP bunny hopping is also a sign of PSD in the hind legs. I am not sure if he had had steroid injections into possible KS that will show up on bloods or not?

Essentially as it stands you have a pony you can do nothing with and a lot of money spent. At least if you get him a full work up you may find that there is something treatable so you can have the pony you tried back again and then he is saleable too.

I really would speak to the previous owners, if just to discuss the situation. I do know of some ponies that for some random reason have been much better with boys although I do suspect something physical is going on in this case.
 
applecart14 said:
My thoughts exactly. You are really limited now, unless you are prepared to put a lot of money into diagnostic. Had you had him 5 stage vetted and had bloods, you could have had those analysed given that he started playing up straight away. Hard lesson to learn hun.
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Read the thread, she did have him vetted and blood taken.
 
sport horse said:
I think I am correct that if a vet carries out a pre purchase vetting on a horse that is the property of one of his/her existing clients he/she is only permitted to do that vetting if the vendors agree to release the full veterinary history to the purchasers and that history must then form part of the vets decision when assessing whether the horse if fit for the job the purchaser requires. If this was not done then that vet has contravened the RCVS guidelines.
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In basic terms this is the case and why sometimes it could be in the purchasers best interests to use the vendors vet providing that vet is the only vet involved and that they are not just used for routine jabs, the vet must inform the purchaser of a potential conflict of interest and from the OP it is unclear as to whether this was done.

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/advice-and-g...ng-guidance/equine-pre-purchase-examinations/
 
OP this is a really sorry story, but you have quite a lot of very good advice, particularly concerning the vetting, etc.

Try and be calm about this. You could have bought this animal and then have him go lame with something career ending which was nothing to do with the vetting. This happened to someone I knew, the horse was a write-off, who then loaned my horse for the summer. They were disappointed that my horse was not "team material" but the instructor told the rider to work with what she had and try to improve her and they did do well in dresage and cross country, only not the level she had been before.

I do hope you are able to find out what is wrong with this pony and are able to put it right so it can resume its career.
 
I don't really have anything to add there is some good advice here already. I just wanted to say that you don't sound spoiled at all, in fact I thought your post was very mature. I know you don't want to stress your mum out, but she wouldn't want you dealing with all of this alone. Maybe you could have a talk with her and your instructor and have a list of options to discuss. If the old owner was unpleasant then your mum or instructor should contact them not you.
I really hope you get to the bottom of it.
 
First thing to do is to get your pony referred to a veterinary centre of excellence by your vet such as one of the Equine hospitals in Newmarket such as Rossdales.
They can then carry out various tests and determine exactly what is wrong with him and give you a written report.
Once you know what the issue is you can then decide what to do.
You may have to instruct specialist equine solicitors to take action against the previous owners if you can demonstrate the pony was not as described or had a condition that they would have been aware of.
 
This pony will be well know in the area that he came from. I would post on FB and ask for information on his past history. If you can get hold of previous vet record you can may find if he had treatment from anything to cause him pain. If you can prove that you have been sold a unrideable horse you will get some kind of compensation. You need to do a lot of searching and digging! I hope it can be resolved for you and your mum.
 
The symptoms sound very similar to a pony we had in for a client. They bought him as unbroken, but when we started him it was obvious he had already had someone attempt to break him in. He had explosive episodes, and could not canter without going disunited and bunny hopping. It was diagnosed as sacriliac problems, the vet treated with injections and rehab. It is thought he had an accident in his previous home and that is why he was sold on. Hope you get to the bottom of it x
 
paddy555 said:
I appreciate he is dangerous but what would happen if you just took him for a ride, no jumping, no lunging, no school. Either led off another horse to start with and then just ridden, slowly, calmly, with another horse and mooching around the lanes/tracks letting him just chill out, eat off the banks and see if he enjoys himself. The reactions you describe are violent but could he simply be so very sour after a long time being made to compete? (obviously don't get hurt) Is there a YouTube link to the videos?
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I'd be wary of this unless OP can find somewhere enclosed, eg a large field with tracks/woods etc?. This pony has bolted in several situations already and OP doesn't have insurance. I'm concerned that if he bolted again and got loose causing injury to someone then the OP, with knowing his behaviour, could potentially be liable. Which won't help her financial situation at all.
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
I'd be wary of this unless OP can find somewhere enclosed, eg a large field with tracks/woods etc?. This pony has bolted in several situations already and OP doesn't have insurance. I'm concerned that if he bolted again and got loose causing injury to someone then the OP, with knowing his behaviour, could potentially be liable. Which won't help her financial situation at all.
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I have never seen a house insurance policy which doesn't have third party liability on it (though some exclude hunting) . If her mum's got house insurance she will probably be covered.
 
Don't ride him OP, plus you're afraid of him now in terms of riding, which is totally understandable. His policy of bolting has worked very well and now he's just going to do that; there's no need to be hospitalised and that's not going to help this situation.

The only person for that horse now is a pro, in terms of sorting him out. There is no need for heroics and your mother's insurance won't be much to good to you if you're left with life changing injuries. I think you've been very brave to have kept riding him after the incidents you've had. This is a bad enough situation, without making it worse.
 
serena2005 said:
Have a good read up on your buyers rights, the seller, be it a dealer or private has responsibilities to sell a horse as described and fit for purpose.

Don't be afraid and get your parents involved this should be dealt with properly.
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Your mother bought the horse and now should take responsibility for sorting the situation out. I feel sorry for you and your mother but most sorry for the horse. It needs to see a vet before it is ridden again. Tbh I feel that it is irresponsible to allow anyone to risk their safety by getting on it until you know what is wrong. And of course you could be worsening any condition that may be foiund. It seems to me that you have kept the horse too long to send it back now. Please hand this over to your mother immediately.
 
Just wanted to edit but couldn't;

I doubt that your mum would wantbyou to try to sort this out by yourself, not least because eventually she will have to get involved, as you are not old enough to take legal responsibility foir any of this. She will become more stressed if she thinks that you are worrying about this on your own with no way forward. I know you feel like a grown up but you really need to get your mum fully involved
 
I agree with Pearlsasinger; the pony must see a vet and should not be ridden by anyone until a full diagnostics is done. X-rays are not that expensive, around £300 for a set of spinal x-rays at the most. A lameness work up, even including blocks should be a similar amount at the very most. If you have spent this much on buying a horse, then this is a drop in the ocean and also a welfare issue for the horse.
 
That's my take on it, a 10k+ pony + 1k vets fees but well, safe and jumping is worth a lot more than a 10k+ pony unrideable.
 
Great advice and I do feel for you. Do talk to your mum and don't take this all one on your own. Speak to your vet and get a broad idea of how much it will cost to run the initial diagnosis. Also do be aware that there is a cost attached to getting bloods tested so ask how much this is as well. I would contact the old owner before trying to find out on FB etc as she will probably be quite miffed if word gets back to her you are asking questions and you didn't go to her first. As for your concerns that the previous owner will accuse you of ruining "her" pony..don't be. She saw you ride and perfectly happy for you to proceed and buy said pony.
 
Just to update everyone who kindly replied

Spoke to my own vet yesterday who thinks it is more likely to be a hindlimb problem most likely a problem in his hocks. He wouldn't rule out a back injury/ problem either but is going to do a work up on him next week and watch him lunge and go from there. He was really helpful and reassuring. He also said that there could be a chance that he was previously treated for something before as the worsening of the condition has happened so quickly. We're going to get the bloods checked purely for peace of mind. And then next week bring him to the practice and try and get to the bottom of it. I spoke to my mum and the cost is very reasonable so she's willing to go ahead with it.

Thank you to everyone for your advice and views, it's helped give me that push to finally try and sort the situation out.
 
That sounds like a very sensible plan you have decided on between you, hopefully something conclusive will be found and it can be treated, it would be very interesting if you could update with the findings after the workup.
 
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