At my wits end with mud fever

[teddy_]

below is a reply I put on another thread a while ago about a similar mud fever (or not) query. I got rid of mine. The bit I found important was the "big molecules" bit below. I used silver whinneys and I worked on the basis it may take a year for the "big molecules"

I think putting SOX on open sores may cause problems. I waited till mine were dry. You can use SOX in mud. They apparently dry very well in a drier. (I don't have one)
You do need 2 pairs especially in this weather. If a horse needs to move to avoid stocking up as Hardback said then a yard, school, lunge ring or anything similar would help rather than mud.

This is what I wrote.

"about this time last year I was struggling and nothing I applied for mud fever helped. Eventually got vet out who took one look and said LV. Not surprised as I had worked it out by then. Our practice make up their own cream. Applied this for 2 months and sorted. What I learnt was don't pick the scabs off, just keep applying the cream and deal with sunlight. It was winter so that was OK but I got a pair of sox for horses in case we had snow and I used them this summer as a precaution. If you search on here there is lots about it.

I used hibiscrub once, the legs came up like balloons, my horse was 4 and not cushings. I didn't box rest but kept him out of sunlight but this was Dec. so not really a problem. If you have to box rest to avoid light then you can use sox for horses.

there were lots of posts on here about this and someone wrote to Dr Knottenbelt. I copied his reply for future reference and it is in bold below.
This condition is quite unique in that it is due to a rather unusual immune response we think to pollen and other proteins from yellow flowered plants last summer. A few horses have a 'reaction' between the plant proteins and their own antibodies and these complexes are deposited in the outer layers (not usually the deeper ones) of the skin. Where they form in white skinned areas they are photoactivatable and so when they are exposed to sunlight they react and cause inflammation. This will continue while those complexes remain and because they are big molecules they have to grow / wear out!! That can take months and any flares that occur simply turn the revert clock backwards!!! The downside is that you have to be very careful therefore to avoid flares / management break downs. The upside of putting effort in now is that it seldom if ever recurs once its gone.

It's not immune boosting you need it's immune suppression if you need anything since it is a result of an abnormal antibody response!"


ETA
whilst the big molecules sound like something out of a fairy tale as the author was Dr K I think we can take them seriously.

Thank you

 

[teddy_]

If the 'mud fever' started in dry weather in August then it sounds like the problem is more likely to be photosensitivity (or possibly a reaction to an allergen) than mud fever. Although Dermatophilus congolensis (the mud fever bacteria) can survive in dry soil for sometime it isn't active until the ground becomes wet again. Photosensitivity can present very much like mud fever and is often initially misdiagnosed as such.

Testing for D. Congolensis is easy so the vet could skin scrape to rule it out, but as the hx includes symptoms during dry weather I would be talking to them about treating it as photosensitivity and seeing if that works. This unfortunately means that the horse is likely to need to be kept in not just until the symptoms have stopped, but until the skin has completely healed.

I am not diagnosing anything over the internet, but from the information you have given I think I would be looking into the likelihood of differential diagnosis rather than just treating it as mud fever.

Whether it is mud fever or not, take care when washing the horse's legs not to use pressured water (e.g. a hose turned on full) or rough scrubbing (e.g. using a water or dandy brush) as that can cause micro damage to the skin which will allow bacteria a way in. D. Congolensis only needs tiny skin abrasions to make it's way in and cause mud fever.

I have seen a horse with horrendous legs due to photosensitivity (which was initially treated as mud fever but kept coming back, well into summer), so it can certainly cause a severe problem (the horse made a full recovery when it was correctly diagnosed and treated). I hope that you manage to get to the bottom of it and the horse is free of symptoms soon.

So, I did ask my vet whether it was possibly photosensitivity when this initially flared up at the end of the summer - but the vet advised that this was highly unlikely as only one very small area of one leg was affected and that photosensitivity normally appears in a less localised state (?).

I’ve got the vet out at some point this week to take a skin scrape, so I’ll ask again to see if they would reconsider the possibility!

 

[teddy_]

They recommend using Woof Wear Mud Socks/boots over the top of the whinneys

Along with a high spec supp (progressive earth Pro Balance + would be my go to) try some oily herbs.

I feed a mix of oregano, thyme and rosemary as the base then mix through others depending on needs. I added Milk Thistle when I had an ill horse and added various respiratory herbs.

I had a chestnut Arab mare with a big white blaze and socks. She used to get awful MF and was photosensitive. Everything was tested and there was no liver damage etc.

I used FAL silver stable wraps and they made a big difference. I'd only wash legs once a week with warm water and THOROUGHLY dryeith blue paper. That made it easy to see that the legs were dry.

I can't remember exactly what I used for her but I had powders and creams. I feel like I tried everything too.

When she came in at night I'd scrape off the worst of the mud and leave her legs to dry in the straw while she had her dinner. I'd brush off the dry bits and then put the boots on.

In the morning I'd brush all the mud off then put on barrier cream. I know I used nappy cream but can't remember what other horse potions I tried.

I did manage to break the MF cycle with her and once I was on top of it, it was never an issue again.

My current horse has a touch of MF for the first time in my care. He arrived with it as a neglected and malnourished 2yr old and is now 11. He's been really ill this year so I'm assuming it linked to his battered immune system. I've been highly recommended Lincolns magic mud kure cream. Ebay was the cheapest place I found it. You've probably tried it already.

Good luck

Thank you !

 

[Landcruiser]

I was at a yard ten yrs ago where several of the horses, including my then two all had persistent mud fever. One of mine got infected and had to have several courses of ABs, and got very angry about any touching of his legs. I totally cured both of them by using Superdrug baby oil with Flowers of Sulphur shaken into a suspension to form a thin paste, slathered onto dry legs, then reapplied every day or two. The scabs softened and just massaged off within about a week, leaving clean pink skin. This was after multiple attempts with other products including the vet's own recipe, and Flamizine (which my horse reacted to very badly). I moved from that yard and have never had to deal with MF again.

 

[Hackback]

I was at a yard ten yrs ago where several of the horses, including my then two all had persistent mud fever. One of mine got infected and had to have several courses of ABs, and got very angry about any touching of his legs. I totally cured both of them by using Superdrug baby oil with Flowers of Sulphur shaken into a suspension to form a thin paste, slathered onto dry legs, then reapplied every day or two. The scabs softened and just massaged off within about a week, leaving clean pink skin. This was after multiple attempts with other products including the vet's own recipe, and Flamizine (which my horse reacted to very badly). I moved from that yard and have never had to deal with MF again.

I'm finding the sulphur cream is bringing loads of little scabs away, like they crumble off in my hand as I'm massaging it in. Don't know if it's just the consistency of the ointment though - it's early days.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

This time last year my cob had what looked like mud fever, for the first time ever. I gave her extra linseed on top of what she was getting in her FP winter balancer, as advised by FP. And her legs got worse! I stopped the linseed and it started to clear up. There were several setbacks, some I think caused by passersby feeding her and some caused by her rubbing as her skin was itchy as it was healing. Our new fencing seems to have finally put a stop to people feeding our horses and I am delighted that 12 months later, I think she is finally over it.
I don't know what your feed contains but I would look at it very careully and consider if something in it could be contributing to her problems.

We now feed oily herbs, rather than a balancer.

 

[Birker2020]

Willing to try anything at this stage, so will give it a go!

I second the Keratex mud shield powder.

As she's not ridden and no boots, you might like to try an old trick we used in the 90's. Buy a block of lard, mix in a bowl with 'flowers of sulphur' it's a green or yellow powder (not sure what the difference is) from the garden centre. Apply to dry washed legs. The lard prevents water and the FOS has an anti bacterial affect.

It lasts a week. Wash off with washing up liquid, dry legs and reapply for another week.

Or you can just buy this https://lincolnhorsecare.com/care/s...horses only.&text=Avoid contact with the eyes.

 

[Hackback]

I second the Keratex mud shield powder.

As she's not ridden and no boots, you might like to try an old trick we used in the 90's. Buy a block of lard, mix in a bowl with 'flowers of sulphur' it's a green or yellow powder (not sure what the difference is) from the garden centre. Apply to dry washed legs. The lard prevents water and the FOS has an anti bacterial affect.

It lasts a week. Wash off with washing up liquid, dry legs and reapply for another week.

Or you can just buy this https://lincolnhorsecare.com/care/s...horses only.&text=Avoid contact with the eyes.

I am using Gold Label sulphur ointment. My vet rang today and said the specialist dermatologist thinks it is vasculitis. I declined the skin biopsy as she said it doesn't always show anything up and my treatment options are the same whatever, so we're back on with a longer course of antibiotics and steroids. I sent her up to date pics and she agrees the legs look better with the sulphur ointment so she's going to discuss that with the dermatologist too. I'm pretty sure it's doing some good.

 

[TheMule]

Every year my horse gets photosensitive on his white socks. The tiniest little cut or nick can trigger it and it just spreads and spreads. It's very difficult to sort out but Silver Whinnys have helped him a lot this year. Thankfully, his has always cleared up before winter strikes and he doesn’t then subsequently get mud fever

This is how nice and tidy the socks keep it

 

[Bob notacob]

E 45 mixed with Bicarbonate of soda , A dash of betnovate wouldnt hurt but wear gloves (no not wooly mittens ffs BoB) 5 days apply and do not touch , brush or "clean" Bicarb is old fashioned so vets dont think of it . It is alkaline (so the bugs hate it) Astringent(reduces inflamation) and antiseptic(well you know that one)Betnovate is prescription stuff but promotes the growth of epidermal layers (skin formation) AGAIN BETNOVATE IS A HAZARD AND WEAR GLOVES.

 

[Jim bob]

This sounds like LV. Not Mud Fever!!!!

 

[Orangehorse]

Certainly change the feed to a Balancer or the Progressive Earth minerals.
Don't wash the legs.
I used plain Vaseline on dry legs before turnout and if there was any infection the Equine America topical ointment worked well.

Some soils are worse than others. There is a notorious covert where any horse that goes into has mud fever and several riders won't take their horse anywhere near. There was a fun ride in that area I went on in the autumn and guess what, my horse had a leg infection afterwards, along with lots of others according to the vet.

 

[teddy_]

We stopped washing her legs after I started this thread and seen a tremendous improvement doing that in conjunction with applying a product called 'Meddi-Mud' in the AM before she goes out - so, think I might have found what works for her !

I do think it could be the soil as earlier on this year when we were at a different place, she was out in a muddy field and didn't pick any mud-fever up...

 

[Kiki1923]

Sudocream for nappy rash and manuka honey - worked for me :0)

 

[Mfh999]

I'm finding the sulphur cream is bringing loads of little scabs away, like they crumble off in my hand as I'm massaging it in. Don't know if it's just the consistency of the ointment though - it's early days.

Sulphur is a huge skin conditioner and I have never had MF not improve by using it. As you've found, massaging it in is by far better than any picking at the scabs as it also helps the circulation; wait until they roll off because the skin will have healed much better/quicker than ripping a scab off.

 

[MrsMyope]

My white legged Arabs were prone to both mud fever and LV. Mud fever wise, many years ago we had very deep snow which stayed for 2 weeks. Horses were knee deep in snow and the mud fever cleared up. My theory was that it was too cold for the bacteria, not their optimum temperature anymore. After that I would put on cold boots in the stable if I noticed anything starting. I also had success once with athletes foot powder however I had to rotate around several different pharmacies to buy the stuff!

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I've had my old horse for nearly 20 years now. He has always been susceptible to mudfever on his white hind. I learnt early on that less is more. Both times I tried to clean scabs etc I had to get vet out for antibiotics. I have learnt to leave well alone. He gets scabs which I keep an eye on but there are no break outs or flare ups. I hope you find a resolution.

 

[Caski]

In your situation I'd be looking at moving. Would also look at nutrition as a preventative/providing the body with what it needs to be healthy from the inside. Is she on a balancer, and if so which one?
My mare came to me with mud fever and I'm so worried she's going to get it again. She's out 24/7, which is the lifestyle I want for her, and she's very happy and settled, but I can't help but be worried about what I'll do if she gets it again. I'm actually going to bring her in tomorrow morning and wash her legs, let them dry in a makeshift stable (field shelter with gate), and go back at lunchtime to slather with barrier cream and turn out again. If the others she's out with go over the brow of the hill, she won't be able to see any other horses, and I'm just not sure whether she will turn herself inside out as a result, or if she'll be ok.
The barrier powder I have previously used doesn't seem to be doing anything, it's just so wet in our fields she's on Forageplus hoof & skin balancer, but she's still on the summer one as I had lots left, so it doesn't have vit E in it... I'm worrying/wondering whether I need to add in vit E, or if I should stop panicking for no good reason (yet!) and wait until she's eaten all the summer one, and buy the winter one (which has vit E added already!).

Do make sure that the skin is completely dry before applying barrier cream, might need a hairdryer!! I used to wrap with straw and bandage after washing off and it took hours to dry properly.

 

[ponyparty]

I regularly dry her legs with a towel, and/or use towels to brush the mud off without damaging the skin underneath (My poor washing machine ).

The barrier cream I bought originally said you can just do that and reapply - I did so with no problems, so not sure your comment is strictly correct. It would be impossible to dry her legs completely every day, she lives out.

I thought I felt scabs a few weeks ago but I found upon washing, it was just mud, so I’m a bit more relaxed about it now. Since then I have just been slapping some udder cream on her pasterns when the mud has been at its worst, in case.

In any case, my worst fears haven’t come to fruition yet, she’s mud fever clear so far. Touch wood. Bet I’ve jinxed it now

 

[Highmileagecob]

Entirely possible you may have heel mites on the pasture or in the stable environment. Notoriously difficult to find on skin scrapes, but will cause intense itching and eventual skin breaks and infection. A good shampoo containing selenium with kill mites and remove the dead skin that provides their food source. Wash thoroughly on day 1, day 5 and day 10 to break the life cycle. Rinse well. If preparations containing oil and lard appear to work, then mites would definitely be on my radar.

 

[Pidgeon]

Horses for courses as different things work for some and not others. Pidge suffers in the mud as he has 3 white socks and is a sensitive ginger. Thermatex leg wraps to dry legs, brush mud out wben dry, apply sudocrem, gently rubbing in circular motion if any scabs. Don't wash legs or rub dry. If you have to clean off, I can highly recommend blue package Tesco babywipes as they are fragrance free. Good luck MF is not good to deal with.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

We stopped washing her legs after I started this thread and seen a tremendous improvement doing that in conjunction with applying a product called 'Meddi-Mud' in the AM before she goes out - so, think I might have found what works for her !

I do think it could be the soil as earlier on this year when we were at a different place, she was out in a muddy field and didn't pick any mud-fever up...

I think the washing makes it worse I never wash mud fever now, I've been using the Lincoln mud powder this year and so far they have been ok.

Glad yours cleared up.

 

[Velcrobum]

Another vote for Sudocream did not try to wash leg (white sock) just gently applied Sudocream and it seems to have worked. Will be washing legs tomorrow AM as farrier is coming and it would be rude to present the amount of mud he is wearing on his legs

 

[Honey08]

One of mine is really bad for mud rash. I find that I have to get him off the mud/wet for a while. Building our hard standing was a life saver. Once you’ve got a bad case of mud rash I think you need to not turn out in the field for quite a while until the rash has dried out properly and the skin has had chance to renew and get strong.

Once you’re on top of it, I find a few days on the hard standing inbetween days in the field helps.

Interestingly I’ve not had much mud rash since we sprayed the rushes and got rid of them. Even in this dreadful wet weather when we’ve got a broken drain and a lot of wet in the field.