At my wits end with nutty pony to travel

[Auslander]

Have you thought about speaking to Tarrsteps? She's very good at figuring out this sort of thing, and I would imagine, a lot cheaper that RM.
She's on y FB friends list - happy to put you in touch with her

 

[FfionWinnie]

I'll sell you the companion for 250. Bargain.

 

[WelshD]

Are you in the Midlands, if so how about Micky Gavin? he does home visits and is flipping good

Have you tried a trailer or forward facing box (or could you try tying in yours facing forward) my little section A rears and kicks like mad in a rear facing box but is a complete gem in my forward facing one he isnt anywhere near as bad as yours but he is a complete changed pony for it

 

[ester]

Have you thought about speaking to Tarrsteps? She's very good at figuring out this sort of thing, and I would imagine, a lot cheaper that RM.
She's on y FB friends list - happy to put you in touch with her

That was my suggestion a bit back great minds and all

I have concluded that Michen has electric knicker syndrome but on the floor, somehow

 

[meesha]

I never leave mine tied up or in horsebox without a haynet, rightly or wrongly he never tries to break free and will stand on lorry or tied up to side of lorry for hours on his own calmly. He does get fidgety if farrier takes too long and no haynet, this is helped by letting dog loose to entertain him!!

Travelling issues are a menace, hope you get it sorted.

 

[Orangehorse]

No suggestions other than Rescue Remedy!

I find this really strange though, as any horse or pony that I have known that has had a long journey - from Ireland or from far away parts of the country - has always travelled perfectly, as though they realised they had to stand and adapt. It has been the home bred one that have been a problem.

What a problem - keep us updated!

 

[Michen]

So do I. What I find even stranger is his happiness to load. He never taken a step back off the ramp and walks up with real enthusiasm. He's certainly quirky!

No suggestions other than Rescue Remedy!

I find this really strange though, as any horse or pony that I have known that has had a long journey - from Ireland or from far away parts of the country - has always travelled perfectly, as though they realised they had to stand and adapt. It has been the home bred one that have been a problem.

What a problem - keep us updated!

 

[ester]

Because he can't wait to entertain you

 

[DabDab]

Also worth considering that it's not unheard of for transporters to leave a horses on a lorry for the night with hay and water rather than unloading.
I agree with Auslander, it does sound like there is more that just quirky personality going on. If he's fine to be left alone in general, and doesn't completely flip out in any other situation that you've come across then there must be something about being left alone in that space for any period of time

 

[spacefaer]

I would wonder if there are two things going on - the first being that he doesn't like being in there by himself.

When he travelled over, he was obviously in a lorry with several others - travelled in your lorry back to the new yard, and wasn't asked to stand still on it, just to come off and go in a stable.

We have one who has been with a family (think dad's horse, with teenage kids and mother who also rides) who has obviously never been in a trailer by himself. He is a liability - losing his footing and crashing about. - by himself. Put another horse in with him, and he travels without moving.

The second being, that he doesn't understand why he should stand there and is throwing his toys out of the pram (lorry!) in a teenage strop. You are reinforcing that behaviour by taking him off when he does it.... he is getting his own way.

Having seen the pictures of him when he first came over, I bet you he has done very little travelling in his life, and I would put money on the fact that he will never have learnt to travel by himself

 

[Michen]

Oh I agree, but it's how to fix it. Before, when he reared he was getting a leg over breast bar and I would have to then go to him so it reinforced the bad behaviour. Now I've had the lorry modified he can slide off the anticlimb bar if he likes but I *thought* there wasn't much damage he could do to himself though he still managed it. So until today, since my lorry returned he has definitely not had bad behaviour re inforced but this is only day three of practice.

I am so torn between uprooting him and sending him to pro to deal with as whole situation is just stressing me out or just going right back to basics and building up the time he spends on the lorry minute by minute, removing him before he kicks off but I'll have to be spot on with my timing.

I would wonder if there are two things going on - the first being that he doesn't like being in there by himself.

When he travelled over, he was obviously in a lorry with several others - travelled in your lorry back to the new yard, and wasn't asked to stand still on it, just to come off and go in a stable.

We have one who has been with a family (think dad's horse, with teenage kids and mother who also rides) who has obviously never been in a trailer by himself. He is a liability - losing his footing and crashing about. - by himself. Put another horse in with him, and he travels without moving.

The second being, that he doesn't understand why he should stand there and is throwing his toys out of the pram (lorry!) in a teenage strop. You are reinforcing that behaviour by taking him off when he does it.... he is getting his own way.

Having seen the pictures of him when he first came over, I bet you he has done very little travelling in his life, and I would put money on the fact that he will never have learnt to travel by himself

 

[ester]

Honestly if it is stressing you out I think sending him elsewhere is not a bad idea, as however much you hide it from him he will know.

Get another opinion, get them to start him off, come home with homework you can continue with confidence.

 

[WelshD]

If he is ok when you are with him could you maybe rig up a handsfree phone at your end and stay connected to a spare phone in the back or use camera with audio (camera pointed towards a passenger who can see how he reacts) so that you can constantly speak to him on the move and see if that helps, would help you pin things down a bit further maybe?

 

[alainax]

No, he travels perfectly with someone in the back with him.

i am not asking him to stand on a moving lorry at the moment I am merely asking him to stand quietly on it without kicking off when he feels he's had enough.

I had one who wouldn't stand in a still trailer. As soon as he was loaded it was ramp up and go go go. Once it was moving he had to concentrate on balancing. When we stopped at the other side, we would gradually increase the length of time it took us to unload him, so he got used to standing still on it a bit longer.

But you say he still does it when it's moving? Since he's fine with company I'd be trying either a companion pony or maybe a radio? Put the pony in first, some really tasty haylage. Load him second, just give him long enough to see pony and start enjoying haylage, then take him off again. Do it a few more times, then take him round the corner, unload pony, put him back on with the haylage, take him back off again before he starts. Keep repeating a different day until he stands alone happily munching, a wee bit longer each time.

 

[Spiritedly]

I'm reading this thread with interest as I have one who won't travel too! He loads like a dream but as soon as the ramp goes up he's throwing himself about and rearing over the breast bar, even when we're moving he manages to rear! The next step with him is to try him with a companion....luckily his best friend is brilliant traveller....however I don't have a trailer of my own and people are ....understandably....reluctant to let me try and risk their trailer being trashed I'm pretty sure in my ones case he's got a bit of claustrophobia as he does similar when I had to stable him overnight. I would try shutting him in a stable and letting him get on with it but we don't actually have stables at my yard.

 

[Red-1]

I have dealt with a few like this.

One was naughty when he got on too, great to actually travel, then naughty at the venue. Happily I had a big HGV at the time, so for a few times loaded and let him play out. He did put a sunroof in (! - but only the inner lining not the actual roof - it was an 8ft headroom too!!) but other than that the big HGV was solid enough to take it. We would box up and wait for him to settle then unload. He was only unloaded once he was eating his net in a pleasant fashion. It was every single day until he was reliable. It was possibly a week? At first the jostling around was for an hour, but the subsequent ones were just a 'test' then relax.

We then took him to the show venue over the road (about 150 yds) but if he was a pratt we would wait for him to relax then drive him straight home. The first time at a venue we had sun roof no 2!

He made a FAB horse after a month or so, no worries to load or travel. He was a bit extreme as he had always been a quirky horse, and when I got him he had been turned out 24/7 for 3 years, and I believe he thought he ruled his world.

I now don't think this is the best method at all, but at the time it was all I knew how to do, and it did work with no injuries other than a damaged head lining.

I have also had one with an issue since having a 3.5 tonne box. That was tricky as the box is just not as sturdy and solid as a HGV, and the mare was rather large. We did work in our field shelter on how to cope with being shut in, and lot of ground work so she would move around OK. She was big and bolshy so it took some work to have her listen. There is an old saying about whispering, "You have to whisper loud enough that they can hear you, and that may be louder than you want." The main work was done on the school, so not connected with the box.

She was put on to eat her net every day, first of all not even with the ramp up, then with the ramp up, then left for 5 mins etc. That mostly went very well as she had absorbed her lessons, but if she decided to be a pratt I would sit in the living part and when she moved smacked the bars with a whip to break her out of it. She only took a week to be reliable, but we worked twice a day.

The third one with an issue was OH's horse. He had travelled with us for 10 years no issue, then he did not. He too would eagerly jump on, then initially he was just troublesome travelling, then he started to do it before the box even started. It was heartbreaking and we simply stopped travelling him. He owed us nothing. The travelling looked as if he was climbing the partition on one side. The part where he would start was just panic. It became apparent after 2 more years of him being hack and local show horse that the issue was a ringbone starting. It was in a place on his joint where in normal motion it was not on the surface that was in use, but when travelling sideways under braking it would touch the rough area, causing great pain. I am glad we stopped travelling him.

The 4th was a horse who had travelled extensively, and stopped, throwing himself around in transit. Many efforts were made, he was better with a double partition, but it all came to light when he was later diagnosed with a bone spavin. When that was treated and he was sound then he travelled perfectly.

I would be very careful if the bars are round, round bars can sometimes guide a fot through a surprisingly small gap, as the hoof is triangular with a pointy leading edge. Sadly, if the foot does go through then the back edge of the wedge shaped foot is the blunt edge, so the horse cannot extricate itself.

I would also have caution with tying to bars in the stable. I knew a horse who was tied on string, but he reared up when tied and the string went up the rail, tightened, and when he came down it actually fractured a vertebrae before the string broke. The horse was OK, but I always get a screw in tie ring in a stable where there are bars for a horse that is a fidget.

From what you say I think you may be right to get a pro, but I would take the horse for livery, with your box so it is your specific box that the horse learns to stand in.

In the mean time I would teach the horse to park up, as a ground work exercise in the school. I would lengthen the time he can stand until standing still for 20 minutes while you leave him firstly to the end of the rope (even running away to leave him) and then loose so you can do a dance round him but when he is parked he knows to stand.

You could also have a play with clicker training as this gets them seeking to please. You initially click when they look away from you so they don't mug you for treats, then click for standing still. You could use than then in the box, so the reward is a click and treat rather than having to offload. That way you can accelerate the speed of training as a wait then click and treat can be done after 30 seconds, ready to start again. The time can then be extended and you can be more generous with the rewards as they are quick and instant.

 

[lilly1]

If you being there is comforting to him you could try and see how he responds to a walkie talkie / child monitor type set up where he can hear your voice. I used a set of Tommys baby monitors many years ago for a horse that went into panic mode (not to the extend of yours mind) and they worked really well.

Personally I'd be tempted to get professional help though as he sounds a danger to himself and others.

 

[tickety_boo]

We had the same thing with one of ours. My husband figured that the pony just didn't want to travel alone and would like a friend. So in a moment of madness, he decided to order a large, acrylic safety mirror (which I scoffed at as I was convinced it wouldn't work). We stuck it up using industrial strength velcro, and had a transformed pony from the day we put it up. Stands like a lamb at shows (which previously we couldn't do as he would climb the tack lockers and wave out the window). We never hear a peep out of him while he's travelling and we now go all over the country. He just stands there nomming his hay while his 'new best mate' stands next to him, also nomming his hay.

 

[chestnut cob]

You could try a Kelly Marks RA. I used one for a bad loader who also wouldn't stand in lorry or trailer. He would try to shoot off and nearly broke my ankle once in the process. I was sceptical but honestly it was as though she worked miracles. Only cost about £50 a session so worth a try.

 

[Barlow]

Reading this with interest as I have one that has developed having temper tantrum once he is loaded. I have to be really quick in doing the partitions and ramp as he is trying to rear and kick out in the box. He's fine once I start the engine.
The stable mirror sounds like a great plan, sounds odd but where did you put it so horse could see it?

 

[Irish gal]

I'm inclined to think this lad is just trying it on with you when he's bored, like you say. I would let him freak out and leave him to it til he learns he won't be rewarded and will have to stand in the lorry instead. Of course ensure it's safe for him to do so. He won't go out of his way to hurt himself.

The reason I say it's poor behaviour is because he travelled fine from Ireland - a long trip with plenty of standing round on the ferry. You have to ask, what's changed. He was happy to stand on the ferry for a couple of hours but now he won't do that for you. Also I would call his old owner and tell them, they know him better than you and may be able to advise you. Sounds like he's just playing up tbh.

And are you travelling him with another, being alone could be a factor.

 

[tickety_boo]

The stable mirror sounds like a great plan, sounds odd but where did you put it so horse could see it?

Right next to his face, on the wall at the back of the lorry, at a right angle to the window. So he had window infront of him, haynet sat on top of the tack locker, then immediately to his right was the mirror, just as if he had a horse stood right next to him. We have since sold the lorry and have gone back to a trailer while we look for a newer one. The mirror is in the trailer in the nosecone between the ramp and the jockey door. There was no where to put the velcro in the trailer so I drilled a hole in each corner and hung it up with cable ties.

 

[Mrs.G]

Mine has always had an issue with being left in a lorry even for more that a few minutes. Kicking and banging around. I used to get so worried about it and tried everything. In the end I got her on and like yours she went on no problems, got a friend to put up the ramp and I drove for 10 mins, kept an eye on the cctv and she was just standing there, got home and took her straight off. Had no problems with getting her anywhere even long drives since I realised I don't need her to actually stand and wait on the lorry. I HAVE to have someone to help me load so I can get away quick, I can't load her and forget something and I can't leave her waiting too long the other end. Luckily she'll wait for a few mins so traffic lights and traffic aren't a problem. It's a pain but it's our way of managing it after a few years of trying everything including experts - no one could put their finger on why.

 

[Michen]

Thanks all for the suggestions. I have considered them all and will try a few things! I did pack him off to travelling boot camp for a few days today after much mind changing. Feel a bit bad as he's so happy and settled but I think it will do us both some good and hopefully I can work on things from when he returns.