At my wits end with saddles! Hit me with your saddles for those flat backed wider horses!

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Stenners

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I'm done in with saddles and losing the will! I'm on my 4th saddle in 2 years and got fitted last April with a new one and got it adjusted for the 6th time last Friday (6 times in 9 months) to be told it hasn't fitted for a while and never will fit now he's muscled up (I'm fuming why the person flocking it never told me this especially as they know he's very sensitive and anxious type with previous saddle related issues)

I had a saddle fitting and tried an Arena which I hated as my knees hung out over the front, 2 Harrys Dabs which were awful as well for us. Albion K2 CC jump which was nice but 2 sizes too narrow for him and they didn't have anything wider so the only option was an Albion K2 CC GP. (They don't have masses of stock either)
I didn't love it (I absolutely loved the jump but wasn't really a fair test as wasn't right for him as too narrow). I'm going back to my old fitter this Friday who has lots of stock and many brands but just intrigued as apparently he's very hard to fit. He's not even a heavy cob - he's a cob x TB type in around an XW or XXW depending on the brand.
What saddles are you all using on those Wider, flat backed horses?

My current saddle is the K&M Flat Backed GP which they don't make anymore which no longer fits him.
 
Im back to a thorrowgood T4 tried to change it but she made it clear she liked it (I think she likes shorter flaps rather than something long on her sides) I would get a T8 but again discontinued so luck of finding one on the market. If I were going for a change Id be going straight to chunky monkey but couldnt afford it at the time, chatted with Sam she was very knowledgable, friend is doing well with hers, though it set her back £1800 with fittings. Alot on our yard rate the saddle company (for flatbacked cobs), but my girl hated it overnight.
 
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When I spoke to Sam, the shape of the tree of most saddles is like /\, which is great if they have a wither, but alot of flat backs actually need C shape , so look for "S"-Type systems. Made complete sense to me !
 
When the fitter comes to try, make sure you get a good trial, and try them in all 3 gaits on both reins, and get a few videos took, had I done this I would have saved myself a fit headache last year!
 
Stenners said:
I had a saddle fitting and tried an Arena which I hated as my knees hung out over the front,
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This may help, it's the seat shape, not just the flap cut, and it can be tricky to get the right shape to allow the knee to drop without adversely affecting the very wide horse:

stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk

The Search for Knee Room

Knee space chair seat and in saddles, causes, and how to improve how the rider sits.
stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk
 
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Black Country have a tree that works well on those types that work on some of their jump saddles. I’m a real fan of BC for a more performance type saddle on the flatter backed wider types.
 
sbloom said:
This may help, it's the seat shape, not just the flap cut, and it can be tricky to get the right shape to allow the knee drops without adversely affecting the very wide horse:

stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk

The Search for Knee Room

Knee space chair seat and in saddles, causes, and how to improve how the rider sits.
stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk
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Oof, that meta title needs editing 😆
 
sbloom said:
This may help, it's the seat shape, not just the flap cut, and it can be tricky to get the right shape to allow the knee drops without adversely affecting the very wide horse:

stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk

The Search for Knee Room

Knee space chair seat and in saddles, causes, and how to improve how the rider sits.
stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk
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So she said he needs a 17" but for my legs I need a 17.5"!
 
TheMule said:
AH saddles sorted out my flat- backed wide event horse with a dressage saddle. He jumps in a lovely little Ideal saddle (they have a couple of models designed for this sort of horse) as the AH ones weren’t quite forward cut enough for me
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Of all the "mainstream" brands I also had greatest success with Ideal. They are nice saddles and easy to find second hand, but there are so many variants you just need to be careful you have found one that's designed for the wider flatter shape. If you can do that it's probably the easiest way to get a suitable nice quality saddle without blowing the bank.

However that said I still wasn't comfy enough in mine - I did consider AH to get that extra leg room but the specialist fitter I was interested in then started stocking Ghosts, so after much agonising I bought one of those in the end (brand new, to exactly the spec I and my horse needed) and have been very happy with it. A slightly "alternative" option, but they do also make some very conventional looking forward cut GP style saddles. Personally I liked the look of their more Western style models.
 
Stenners said:
So she said he needs a 17" but for my legs I need a 17.5"!
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Did you read the blog post? Seat size should never be about leg length, but, really, it shouldn't even be about hip measurement. There is so much more to rider fit than even adding a more forward flap for a long femur...hence the link :)
 
I've always had chunky monkeys and my Ideal Event has fitted them all, same for my friend and her two. We've both managed to keep the same saddle even though we've had new (albeit very similarly built) horses.
 
sbloom said:
Did you read the blog post? Seat size should never be about leg length, but, really, it shouldn't even be about hip measurement. There is so much more to rider fit than even adding a more forward flap for a long femur...hence the link :)
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Yes i did - definitely makes sense now but they just told me I need a bigger seat!
 
Stenners said:
Yes i did - definitely makes sense now but they just told me I need a bigger seat!
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Yep, because that's as far as rider fit saddle fit training generally goes. I find that getting rails that are flat/wide enough for very wide backs (and bear in mind I'm talking about the second quarter of the saddle, not the first quarter where the pommel is, and backs can be WIIIDE here even if the points don't need to be that wide) AND allowing the rider to sit in comfort and decent alignment is very difficult.

I've certainly found treeless can help a lot, but you do need to lift the rider a little in order to give that "space" for the rider to drop their knee, a "close contact" fit on very wide backs means anything other than the widest riders (pelvis and/or hip articulation) will not be able to sit with the heel anywhere near the line from their hip, and/or they'll be sat with significant external rotation which transfers weight from where it should be, across the whole pelvis and inner thigh, to the seatbones. None of this helps the horse OR the rider.
 
15.2hh leg in each corner cob, backside like a cook.

Has recently been fitted with a Bliss saddle.
Eye-watering cost, but she's happy and going much better.

But is adjustable, so hopefully will fit if she changes
 
One of my Arab's has a back like a very wide cob tried loads of different options and I would say the best one was a Lavinia Mitchell Dressage saddle, second best was a black country working hunter saddle.

The Lavinia Mitchell saddles are fitted slightly wider and a shim numnah can be used if needed, normally if the horses has muscle damage that needs to come good.

I also used a flexigirth and it stayed put no slipping unlike all the other saddles I tried.

Honestly with wide horses get a saddle that specialises in the shape and a fitter that knows how to fit a wide horse, I had years and multiple saddle fitters that just fitted everything too narrow.
 
sbloom said:
Yep, because that's as far as rider fit saddle fit training generally goes. I find that getting rails that are flat/wide enough for very wide backs (and bear in mind I'm talking about the second quarter of the saddle, not the first quarter where the pommel is, and backs can be WIIIDE here even if the points don't need to be that wide) AND allowing the rider to sit in comfort and decent alignment is very difficult.

I've certainly found treeless can help a lot, but you do need to lift the rider a little in order to give that "space" for the rider to drop their knee, a "close contact" fit on very wide backs means anything other than the widest riders (pelvis and/or hip articulation) will not be able to sit with the heel anywhere near the line from their hip, and/or they'll be sat with significant external rotation which transfers weight from where it should be, across the whole pelvis and inner thigh, to the seatbones. None of this helps the horse OR the rider.
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Thank you so much for this explanation of 'why' my Fell (and the Sec D before him) with wide backs have gone better with what seems like almost 'too much' padding under their saddles rather than close contact.
 
My Westphalian Kaltblut (similar build to Belgian Draft) had 4 saddles before we tried a Solution. That was the answer! She went well in it and I found it comfortable to ride in.
 
Another vote for Ideal - mine was actually badged as an Origins, from Nathanial Underwood, it was a Grandee. It fitted both of my lightweight cobs with little wither, and I liked the square cantle. I’ve put in photos of the first horse of mine it was fitted to, although he had been retired a few years here - you can still see that he was big barrelled, his wither became more prominent with age.
 

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catkin said:
Thank you so much for this explanation of 'why' my Fell (and the Sec D before him) with wide backs have gone better with what seems like almost 'too much' padding under their saddles rather than close contact.
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Yep, because it probably sits you better. Obviously you can't randomly pad things up, too much padding down under the rider's thigh can make the issue worse.

I would agree that finding a fitter who really knows wide horses, and offers brands that work for these shapes (which tend not to be standard brands stocked by many local saddle fitters) is key. See who covers your area from the specialist brands and also look for a really great fitter with lots of experience of wider horses...then extra knowledge on rider fit is a great bonus (wishing it wasn't a "bonus"...).

If you are considering treeless then a remote fitting may be possible, fitters are few and far between, but getting expert help is of course critical (and I think the reason treeless can seem to have a bad name is because so many are never fitted by a skilled person and many will be low in front especially).
 
The only saddle that worked for my big shouldered, low withered, short, flat backed ISH was a made to measure prestige Roma. We tried every brand and I was open to spending many thousands on the right one but this fitted us both really well.
 
Spotherisk said:
Another vote for Ideal - mine was actually badged as an Origins, from Nathanial Underwood, it was a Grandee. It fitted both of my lightweight cobs with little wither, and I liked the square cantle. I’ve put in photos of the first horse of mine it was fitted to, although he had been retired a few years here - you can still see that he was big barrelled, his wither became more prominent with age.
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He's lovely! Mine is similar to yours but not quite as chunky
 
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