At my wits end...

[druid]

Quick back story for those who didn't see my earlier thread- have a spaniel for three weeks now. He is about a year old, was a rescue of sorts. Not walked/trained at all in his previous home.

He only gets walked on a long line as not only does he have no recall once his head is down after a scent he ignores you totally. Dog whistle, food (including hot chicken and liver) and shouting be damned. Today he slipped his halti (pulls like a freight train). Gone. It took me over an hour to get him back and it was only after I drove away for 5 mins to drop my other dogs home that he reappeared when I came back to continue my search.

I couldn't see him, couldn't hear him in the forest, and he ignored my calls totally.

His recall on the longline was improving - he had been coming back to the chicken/liver intermittently.

After today I feel disheartened he'll ever be good off the leash. Ideas, suggestions and Hughes are all welcome.

 

[CAYLA]

3 weeks is ery early days for a dog with no recall esp given age and background and breed, it has taken me up to 6 months of on lead work to then get perfect recall from the most difficult dogs, one being my wire haired pointer. Obs you can't do alot if he slips lead just make sure he is super tagged up and chipped so you get him back when he decides to go to someone.
In the mean time, carry on with recall in the home using primula (my fave)/high reward goods. (introduce a whistle)
I generally when using the long line only allow them so far (neer to the end) and keep recalling to me to keep them on their toes, I also do the same when letting them off eventually, I call them constantly so they get the gist of "for gods sake im only here", then I am "yes and know and thats as far as you will get" to many people let them run to far on the initial let offs and to far to the end of the long line without constant recall.
But be prepared to keep him on for a long while to come (obs you could not stop what happened today)

 

[Spudlet]

With the halti, you need a double ended lead or a separate lead on the collar for security.

Chin up, as Cayla says three weeks is nothing. It took Henry months! But now he is very good off lead.

 

[Alec Swan]

.......

. Gone. It took me over an hour to get him back and it was only after I drove away for 5 mins to drop my other dogs home that he reappeared when I came back to continue my search.

.......

What does that tell you? As soon as you stopped calling him, and as soon as he didn't know, or wasn't sure of where you were, then he came to look for you. Think about it, and you will see that the dog is taking the p***, and for you to have a faithful and obedient servant and friend, and one which puts your needs before his own, then it's time for a change of tactics. That's probably not what you want to hear.

Rather like the Spiked Check Collar thread, which I haven't joined in with, and as another on there will assure you, as I can, training aids will not train a dog. Bribing the dog with food rewards, will prove equally as useless. The dog needs to learn that you will be obeyed and that he will listen to you. You start the process in a confined space, firstly the kitchen and then out into the garden. "You will have total obedience", and if you don't then you go after him. Teach him to walk to heal OFF the lead. Once you've mastered that, then the long line, the Halti and the food inducements can be relegated to the bin!!

Just consider this;

When you were calling for your dog, and he could hear you, so he ignored you, because he had "contact". Yes?

OK, so with a lead or a line or a spiked or an e/collar, then the dog also has "Contact" with you. Yes?

If you remove the contact, if you are insistent upon discipline, then the dog wont be quite so sure of himself, he will have to start to consider you, and what you want. It's the basis of a compliant and willing and pleasurable companion. It's do-able.

Alec.

 

[Maesfen]

Such good sense Alec.

It is damn annoying when they go off (believe me, Border Terriers can be notorious for it especially if squirrels, rabbits or foxes are involved) but we learnt that the less noise we made for them the quicker they returned.

 

[druid]

I don't think that's true - I was by stood the car for a good 15 minutes making no noise while I tried to get hold of someone at home to come pick up the other dogs and there was no sign of him.

 

[Maesfen]

It sounds like yours is wired up differently then Dru' and doesn't feel he 'needs' you, very frustrating.

 

[piebaldsparkle]

I don't think that's true - I was by stood the car for a good 15 minutes making no noise while I tried to get hold of someone at home to come pick up the other dogs and there was no sign of him.

I suspect you are right, I think the whole 'abandon' think works only if they recalll and are taking the 'P' - Hell I drove away (200yrds) from my JRT when he was 4months and flatly refused to get back in the car at the end of 3 walks in a row. That was enough to convince him that I WOULD leave him. I'm also not one to call the whole walk, and expect the dogs to watch to see I have changed direction. If I call it means return immediately at speed! Other than that the dogs are expected to 'check-in' regularly. However I can't see how this would work with a dog which has no recall at all.

 

[Spudlet]

I don't think that's true - I was by stood the car for a good 15 minutes making no noise while I tried to get hold of someone at home to come pick up the other dogs and there was no sign of him.

If he was properly, full on hunting, he probably didn't even notice you'd gone. Everything would have been centred on his nose and what he was doing.

Don't despair - keep going. One thing you might want to try out. At home, hide something good - a special toy, or food - and send him to find it. At first, you will need to guide him so he learns what you want. So have him on the lead and take him to the place. When he is sniffing about, say 'find it', praise him and reveal the reward. The next stage is to first take him to a dummy location, then on to the real spot. He will learn that 'find it' means to hunt things out, and more importantly, that this is a game he plays with you.

You can then take this outdoors - on the lead of course! It will work his mind and it will help him to focus on you.

If he is mad keen on pheasants get some training scent and apply it to an old sock, and keep that for these games only.

 

[Booboos]

Recall problems are really, really frustrating, I feel your pain! However, as above it's early days yet. The abandonment trick works very well with puppies, who tend to have a much smaller safety space anyway, but is unlikely to work with a more confident, adult dog, or a dog that is very motivated by scents. I think you are doing the right thing with rewarding the right behaviour and percevering with the long line. Make sure you reward every time the dog is anywhere near you and keep practicing the recall on the long line. In a safe, enclosed space it's also worth playing the recall game - you need two people for this, stay relatively close to each other and practice calling and rewarding from one person to the other and back again.

 

[druid]

Cheers guys.... Sometimes coming on here and having a bit of a whine is all that's needed to make yourself feel better. I'll try and dig out a double ended lead for him so we have no more escape incidents.

 

[Adopter]

3 weeks is no time at all. We have been working on recall with our rescued border collie for 18 months, and he is just starting to trust us enough to come in when called from our fenced garden. We use a very long recall lead and half choke when out as he is a very strong dog.

I think it will be years not weeks or months before we can risk him off lead in unfamilar places, he is a very loving dog and great companion, and it is not his fault life has made him reluctant to come when called.

 

[weaselwords]

I'm another one who says give it time. The bitch in my avatar is quite screwed up and has taken well over a year to get to reliable recall off things she chases if no other dogs around. She's still a ****** if destracted by dogs. We've made her work for us in an enclosed space, as she will run for miles for the joy of it and I'd never catch a long line quick enough. Then moved into more open spaces. Lots and lots of retrieval. Whilst I do agree with Alex's point about obedience, I don't know how to do it and so use bribery gladly. End result is that my bitch is still quite neurotic and hair triggered, but she will come back 90% of the time.