At what point do you give up?

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Sprat

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At what point would you all give up and sell your horse?

I've had my lad a year and a half, had lots of schooling issues, repeated contact struggles coupled with my ill health meaning I can't get into a tug of war...

I have weekly lessons, everything checks wise is up to date and I just feel like I'm getting nowhere.

Any advice? I love the boy to bits but I'm having more bad days than good with him and wander where to draw the line?

Wine and cookies for all
 
I believe it should be enjoyable. Challenging and enjoyable is fine but a constant struggle, not so much. Getting them to where you want them to be can take years but I'd want to see encouraging signs of improvement throughout (even if interspersed with bad days).

If it isn't working for you, it's ok to move on. I'm hoping to have mine for a lifetime but if for any reason it doesn't work out, I'm prepared to accept that.
 
I gave my gelding 12 months. I was gutted to give him back to the previous owner who I don't think really believed all the problems I was having. Six months later she wrote to me and apologised after seeing for herself how he would stand up and throw a strop. I have never looked back since. It was the best decision I ever made. I now have two wonderful rescue horses who make me smile every day. Riding should be fun. Life is too short and it is too expensive a hobby to be stressed and unhappy.
 
Who on earth told you to get into a tug of war?
Perhaps a different instructor and getting the horse in long reins to see exactly where the holes in the scholing truly lie!
 
I've had a couple of instructors, the current one I really like and is great doing jump work. For the flat he has recommended that I keep switching between the loose ring snaffle and Waterford and this should keep him light. But it doesn't, he doesn't go lightly in his snaffle and it's horrible. I love dressage so riding around in a stronger bit isn't an option. When I've spoken to my instructor about contact issues, he says that it is sprat not accepting the bridle and I need to persevere. Unfortunately I have fibromyalgia which causes me severe joint pain and so I can't (and dont want too!) get stronger with him.

I keep thinking that perhaps a different horse with a softer mouth would help. I'm by no means a novice, and I know what I need to do to school the horse but nothing seems to be helping. Though clearly someone more experienced than me would be able to fix my problems!


Sorry, clearly having a bit of a feel sorry for myself evening!
 
I would have a frank discussion with your instructor.

Persevering is one thing as issues won't necessarily be fixed over night but you instructor should be able to give you an estimate on how long he would expect what he has suggested doing will start to achieve a difference. It would be useful for him to say if you do this then in this many weeks I would expect this result.

Does your instructor think this horse will help you fulfill your dressage ambitions and if so how long that would take to get to that point, taking into consideration your health condition.

Are there other activities that you can do with your horse that you both enjoy that is not dressage riding. Some horses are going to find it harder to do dressage than others either due to conformation or temperament or both and if you can find an activity you can both enjoy as well as working towards your dressage goals then it might lift your spirits a bit.

Have you thought about sending your horse to a professional to school it for a while to establish a light contact so that you can then take over once your horse has been better educated? How old is your horse?

It is a very personal decision and only you will how important being able to do dressage is to you, and in what time frame. I think unless you have been in the same situation is very difficult to advise but if you are even thinking about selling your horse then it is obviously a practical solution but who is to say a different horse would be any better, or you might get a light beautifully schooled dressage horse who may sustain an injury and not be able to do dressage again so even if you did sell your horse then there is no guarantee you would be in a better situation.
 
Nope I don't give up! I've had lots of people asking if I ever think about it but there's no way!

recently my very brave instructor got off because he was rearing with her and said she wasn't happy to ride, so I just had to get back on and try myself, changed a few things feed wise and now I seem to be getting somewhere with him! he's gone for being totally ignorant to my leg and having a paddy when I use the whip to actually trotting in the school this week, with no rearing whatsoever!

I might send him away for a couple of weeks of schooling, or hopefully now he's being a bit better behaved my instructor might be willing to start schooling him again for me!
 
I can't ride strong in the hand horses my body can't take it any more .
So I train the horses not to be strong .
However it's not really as simple as that, is it ,the horse has to want to learn and be prepared to be trained it has to give itself up to the training .
If your horse is not want to join the party I would part with him and buy a horse that suits you .
I have to be very careful now only to chose the right type of horses for me .
 
Does he go softly for your instructor? it is all very well people saying keep going, find another job to do with him, try different bits etc but at the end of the day if you are struggling and have a physical reason that means riding this horse is too hard, that you are going round in circles and getting no further forward then it probably is best for you to sell him and find something that is softer and more suited to you, it is not giving in it is being sensible and realistic, it costs far too much in money and effort to keep going just because some people think it is showing weakness in some way.

The only other suggestion I would make is to, if you like the horse and feel it worthwhile, send him away to a decent trainer, have a few lessons while he is there and ask for a frank opinion of whether it is worth continuing, it may be useful even if you sell at the end as he will be tuned up and may be easier to sell for a decent price.
 
Thanks for the response all.

The horse is 7, so still only young and unbalanced which i'm sure has a lot to do with the issues I've been having. We don't just hammer out schooling everyday, he has quite a varied workload including hacking and jumping.

I had a chat to my instructor about the horse, he believes that he can come lighter but it will take a fair amount of work. He suggested a lot of groundwork - I've been looking into Straightness Training and wondering if this would help? Has anyone had any success stories?

Charlie007 yes I had been looking at a Micklem. I need to see if anyone I know has one I could borrow as they are not cheap and don't want to potentially waste the money if the horse hates it!
 
FfionWinnie said:
Does he enrich your life. If not moving him on to someone who would enjoy him and allow you to get something you can enjoy, is not giving up!
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I agree. Whilst he may come better at schooling you may need to be aware that, equally, he may not. It may just not come naturally to him, and for the sake of the horse you may need to step back and rethink what suits him best ridden wise and then you will need to decide if you are willing to change what you want to do in order to keep him, or sell him to a home where he doesn't need to be schooled and you can then get something that is happy to work in the school.
 
Talk to your instructor and gather hard facts. Be honest with yourself and only you will know the answer. Horses - the care , looking after, the riding even a the few odd bad days should be fun. Afterall they all, suitable and unsuitable horses cost time, money and heartache in buckets and you should look forward to seeing your horse and not think 'Here we go again '

Its ok to be honest and move on if the partnership isnt working ..... 'one mans junk, is another mans treasure ... '
 
Tug of war sounds bad, tbh if it's escalated to that, there's either been a miscommunication with the instructor or you need a new instructor? I would definitely try that route before you get rid of the horse. I have had many times wanting to give up with one of mine (he is complex ;) ) but we power through and each time the work pays off, and I feel I am a better rider for it.

Does he tank off? Or just not fancy having his head cranked in?

With my huge IDx, he learned to be soft very quickly. If they lean it tends to be because they are on the forehand, and the answer to that is more leg, not more rein.

A good exercise is work on forwards and back in trot. This really worked for us. Get a good working trot, and do a half halt with the outside rein, asking for as slow a trot as he can manage. Sometimes a lifting hh works better than a backwards one. Tbh you need to hh strong enough that it works (don't yank, just close the rein slowly and think about bringing him back with your seat, try and keep everything soft, and relax as soon as he slows) but you should be able to de-escalate throughout the session, so it gets to the stage where he slows down just by seat. Doesn't matter about where the head is, and it doesn't need to be a collected trot, just a slow one. Make sure once he is at the speed you want, leave him be. Do a few strides of slow trot before asking for forwards again. Do forward for maybe 6 strides, and repeat the exercise. Please try this, I promise even after only 10 minutes it works on any strong horse! If you're genuinely worried about him tanking off, do it on the lunge!
 
Pigeon said:
Tug of war sounds bad, tbh if it's escalated to that, there's either been a miscommunication with the instructor or you need a new instructor? I would definitely try that route before you get rid of the horse. I have had many times wanting to give up with one of mine (he is complex ;) ) but we power through and each time the work pays off, and I feel I am a better rider for it.

Does he tank off? Or just not fancy having his head cranked in?

With my huge IDx, he learned to be soft very quickly. If they lean it tends to be because they are on the forehand, and the answer to that is more leg, not more rein.

A good exercise is work on forwards and back in trot. This really worked for us. Get a good working trot, and do a half halt with the outside rein, asking for as slow a trot as he can manage. Sometimes a lifting hh works better than a backwards one. Tbh you need to hh strong enough that it works (don't yank, just close the rein slowly and think about bringing him back with your seat, try and keep everything soft, and relax as soon as he slows) but you should be able to de-escalate throughout the session, so it gets to the stage where he slows down just by seat. Doesn't matter about where the head is, and it doesn't need to be a collected trot, just a slow one. Make sure once he is at the speed you want, leave him be. Do a few strides of slow trot before asking for forwards again. Do forward for maybe 6 strides, and repeat the exercise. Please try this, I promise even after only 10 minutes it works on any strong horse! If you're genuinely worried about him tanking off, do it on the lunge!
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Thanks, I will give that exercise a go.

He doesn't tank off (unless spooked, and tbh it really doesn't bother me as it doesn't happen that often) he just objects to carrying himself for any amount of time and is happy to lean and fall further onto his forehand.

I have been practicing slowing and speeding up the trot on the lunge so the basics are there.

I really don't want to give up on him as he is quite a talented little chap underneath it all!
 
Being able to sustain self carriage takes a lot of effort for some horses, but it is achievable for any horse. They have to build both muscle, strength and stamina and this takes time. In your position with a lack of strength you really don't want to get into a tugging match and to be honest even without your health issues its pointless anyway as the horse is always going to win even if you've got arms like pop eye.

Sometimes having a stronger bit is simply a means to an end it doesn't mean your horse will always be in it but it just means that it gives you a bit more say and can be clearer in your guidance to the horse. This is particularly the case when you've engaged the back end to lift the front end if horse leans like crazy when you've got going and applied more oooph it basically means that potentially you are driving it more on to its forehand and then this becomes a vicious circle. Doing "on and back" within the pace is a great exercise but again only if you can stop neddy from diving onto their forehand during the "on" bits. Kind of like a tube of toothpaste if you squeeze the bottom you've got to be able to prevent it all escaping out the top.

Using something like a NS Universal will give you a bit more lift I would avoid a Pelham or similar as often neddy will just learn to tuck behind the contact. No its not dressage legal but if you use it for schooling and then use a dressage legal bit for competitions it should work well and once neddy understands what you're asking this should eventually become its normal way of going. Its better in my view to use something a little stronger so you can be a bit clearer to neddy about what is required than to be constantly pulling on its mouth as again this is basically teaching it to lean and ignore the contact and become numb. Any bit is only as harsh as the hands on the other end of the reins.

For top heavy neddies pole work is useful especially canter poles, shoulder in is good as are turns on the forehand especially when combined with an immediate upward transition to a faster gear, also millions and millions of acute transitions (trot halt - halt trot, canter walk - walk canter), and rein back to a faster pace anything that gets their hocks underneath them also combining a jump in the schooling can be helpful so sessions aren't either flatwork or jumping but do both as one should improve the other. Also don't be afraid to throw the contact at them if they are leaning its very easy to get into the habit of trying to carry the horse and some horses are quite happy to let you, so test out who is carrying who by giving the reins forward and back.

Keep in mind though neddy will find this hard work and once they get tired you are literally flogging a dead horse, tired muscles lead to discomfort. So lots of short sharp bursts that insist on proper work not endless trotting around the outside track that allow neddy to become heavier and heavier.

In answer to your original question though my advice is if the ironing looks like a more attractive activity than riding then yes its probably time to call it a day, but otherwise keep going its not about the destination its about enjoying the journey.
 
FfionWinnie said:
Does he enrich your life. If not moving him on to someone who would enjoy him and allow you to get something you can enjoy, is not giving up!
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I struggled on with a horse that really didn't want to do the same as I did, eventually I sold him to a home where he is really loved and appreciated and I now have a horse I look forward to riding. I wish I'd made the decision sooner.
 
i had a huge back operation a few years ago .and took it very hard that things wernt the same anymore .(was almost in a wheelchair) it took me a long time but i sold all my unsuitable horses and accepted the fact that if i was going to ride it was going to be on a different horse that was suitable so i bought a sensible but not boring older been there done it type -hes an ex eventer so is safe to go anywhere and do anything but still has spicy moments . we potter and its enough for me now to know that i can just sit on a beautiful smart horse thats quite quirky and not everyones cup of tea but suits me fine .
 
I have Fibromyalgia too so can totally sympathise....it's really not nice and I think that it's tricky for non sufferers to really identify with the struggle.
I sold my big horse this year as I simply didn't have the strength or the energy to be completely consistent with a big young horse. Broke my heart BUT he is doing so well in his new home.
I bought a smaller cob that is a bit older and we are still very much in the adjustment phase just now as I find it hard with him being smaller. However I really think your gut instinct is the one to go with...no-one wants or needs a battle every time they ride, particularly with an illness that makes it 5 x the hassle!!!
 
oldie48 said:
I struggled on with a horse that really didn't want to do the same as I did, eventually I sold him to a home where he is really loved and appreciated and I now have a horse I look forward to riding. I wish I'd made the decision sooner.
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I don't have any health issues but I did have a TB x for years which really didn't suit my lifestyle. Op the joy I feel about riding my wonderful cob is incomparable to the hassle of riding the TB. Every day is brilliant! The TB is in a home where they think she is brilliant so everyone is happy (and safe!).
 
I had inconsistent contact with my welsh d, she'd go heavy & fix her neck & toss her head. I then watched a webinar about contact & realised that it was my doing, I wasn't carrying my hands in the right place and my fingers were loose holding the rein rather than gently closed in a fist around the reins. My mare responded almost immediately to the changes & is now quiet in the contact. The webinar described as stand in front of wall as though sat on horse, put hand in fist with thumb on top and gently press fingers on the wall in front of you which gives you the feeling you are after on horseback.
 
The time is now, its no use struggling on. You will both be better off if he is in a more suitable home.
Really, having lessons is a good idea to tweak things and make things progress, but not to sort out the basics, after all this time.
 
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When I had contact issues with my horse and had a different instructor look at me he instantly pin pointed the problem to me. My hands moved to much, slack-tight the reins went and every time they went right I jabbed the horse in the mouth, no wonder the poor horse had contact problems, it wasn't really noticeable I was doing it but if I look closely at old vids I can see it now. To fix my new instructor did a lot of long reining with the horse in a mouthing bit to soften her again, and taught me to use my hands better. He focuses on my hands being still and half halts coming from a relaxed wrist and me having relaxed elbows and shoulders. I feel like a div sometime when he has me trotting round rolling my head from side to side as I've tensed my shoulders but it works and my horse is a lot softer. Sometimes we just need a different perspective.
 
Myloubylou said:
I had inconsistent contact with my welsh d, she'd go heavy & fix her neck & toss her head. I then watched a webinar about contact & realised that it was my doing, I wasn't carrying my hands in the right place and my fingers were loose holding the rein rather than gently closed in a fist around the reins. My mare responded almost immediately to the changes & is now quiet in the contact. The webinar described as stand in front of wall as though sat on horse, put hand in fist with thumb on top and gently press fingers on the wall in front of you which gives you the feeling you are after on horseback.
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Do you have the link to the webinar? It sounds interesting, and certainly can't hurt to watch!
 
Sprat said:
Thanks, I will give that exercise a go.

He doesn't tank off (unless spooked, and tbh it really doesn't bother me as it doesn't happen that often) he just objects to carrying himself for any amount of time and is happy to lean and fall further onto his forehand.

I have been practicing slowing and speeding up the trot on the lunge so the basics are there.

I really don't want to give up on him as he is quite a talented little chap underneath it all!
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That is because his muscles haven't yet developed enough for him to allow him to carry himself properly. A strong contact isn't going to help that, which your RI should know! Before selling the horse, I would find a good instructor. I know you like this one but s/he honestly doesn't sound very knowledgeable.
 
ossy said:
When I had contact issues with my horse and had a different instructor look at me he instantly pin pointed the problem to me. My hands moved to much, slack-tight the reins went and every time they went right I jabbed the horse in the mouth, no wonder the poor horse had contact problems, it wasn't really noticeable I was doing it but if I look closely at old vids I can see it now. To fix my new instructor did a lot of long reining with the horse in a mouthing bit to soften her again, and taught me to use my hands better. He focuses on my hands being still and half halts coming from a relaxed wrist and me having relaxed elbows and shoulders. I feel like a div sometime when he has me trotting round rolling my head from side to side as I've tensed my shoulders but it works and my horse is a lot softer. Sometimes we just need a different perspective.
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That sounds very similar to the problems I am having - A lot of the contact issues stem from me (though instructor has ridden nag and he has agreed that nag is difficult in the contact)

Any specific exercises that you would advise helps?

I long reined sprat last night (highly scary to begin with, I don't think he has ever been long reined before) and all in walk just concentrating on serpentines and figures of 8. The contact was much better through the long reins which leads me to believe that I am doing my poor boy no good by being on his back :(
 
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