Attitude of professionals

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Blue Rider

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A question if you please ladies and gents.

I witnessed an interesting and very heated argument today where a so called "expert" or professional person came rather close to getting laid out on a yard.
When if ever have you witnessed a person involved in horse care for which he is paid - take hold of the lead rope - call the horse a little B*****d loudly, turn 180 degress and then spin into a full force open handed slap across the face of the horse. With enough force to cause a rather stocky cob to wobble and stagger sideways.
Anyone?
Anyone think that's reasonable behaviour and acceptable?
I would say yes the horse isn't the most placid when dealing with "experts" unless they take the time to talk to her first, to make aquaintance and re-assure her.
However she isn't malicious, nor dangerous - and in this instance attempted only to pull her leg away and place it back on the ground.

Now it's time for your views - acceptable behaviour?
Normal practise amongst some trained people?

What would you do? How far would you run with it?
The debate the followed was more likely to be a serious upset with injuries between owner and "expert", had it not been for intervention.

Would you allow this from a "pro" ?
Would you report him to the governing body?
Leave accurate and honest feedback when his name is raised ?
 
Saw a very high up bhs instructor who was schooling a woman's horse on a yard when she was on holiday beat the hell out of it. I reported her but heard nothing from the bhs as I had no evidence.
 
It is by no means acceptable.

Its a difficult situation as really who do you report it to, welfare charities would not be interested, BHS (if they are an AI for example) would do nothing and bad mouthing around town could lead to more trouble.

I would certainly not be letting him anywhere near my horse again and if anyone asked me my opinion of him i would tell the truth.

An old friend of mine took her horse to be jumped by a "professional" and when the horse stopped he punched him round the head, hard. This horse had numerous physical problems and was stopping because he hurt. If anyone asks me my opinion of this man i tell them what i know of him and leave it at that.
 
Yes definitely report to governing body - other people need to be protected from getting this extemely UNprofessional behaviour with their horse.

In a perfect world you would also write a letter to the person involved explaining why you will NOT be employing them again. It's the fairest thing to them as well as otherwise they will carry merrily on thinking this sort of thing is OK. Give them a chance to re-think.
 
In my experience some profesionals (not all) ride so many horses in one day they get very short with them by the end of the day. I have seen some awful things in my time but nothing you can really do about it. RSPCA dont seem to respond to serious cases of cruelty let alone somebody just hitting a horse
 
Not sure you could call it "just hitting" tbh.
I would safely say that any slap that knocks nigh on half a ton of horse, is fairly equivalent to a KO in a human.

Does it affect your view of things if I disclose this as a supposedly experienced farrier, early in the morning and highly probable would be his first call and first horse. Therefore wouldn't be using the tired and agitated from many horses reasoning. ?
 
MiCsarah said:
In my experience some profesionals (not all) ride so many horses in one day they get very short with them by the end of the day. I have seen some awful things in my time but nothing you can really do about it. RSPCA dont seem to respond to serious cases of cruelty let alone somebody just hitting a horse
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An instructor was seen by a motorist to hold a horse and proceed to kick it, while a customer was on board and the first we knew of it was when SSCPA called in. Instructor was gone to new unhorsey pastures so unsure if they caught up with said instructor or not.
Not sure if SSPCA are any better than RSPCA but I was surprised that they did actually follow up complaint.

It is disgusting as to what some "experts" will do and another reason VERY few people get to handle my well-mannered ponies.



As to the original question, I'd rather report it than sit back and think there's no point as nothing will be done. A letter to the person in question is also a good idea - there would be too much anger etc to explain it in person.

It doesn't matter how many horses you work with in a day, the one should not be aggrieved just because they're last and your tired. If I had done this on any yard, I'd have been sacked on the spot and was expected to maintain a level of professionalism with every horse I worked with regardless of the time - including the competition horses which arrived back from a show at 3am.
 
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fidleyspromise said:
As to the original question, I'd rather report it than sit back and think there's no point as nothing will be done. A letter to the person in question is also a good idea - there would be too much anger etc to explain it in person.
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It's safe to say that the "discussion" between farrier and owner, would have made it clear that he won't be touching persons horses ever again. He didn't get the opportunity to finish 1 hoof, never mind the horse.
 
A long time ago I witnessed a top level harness trainer beat the living daylights out of a young horse because it hasdn't sped up when asked.

He had driven it off the track at a trot, back to the stables and straight into the wash bay, then taken to it with the chains that are used to tie them up with.

I was horrified and his explanation - that the horse needed to reespect him more and that when he wanted it to move faster it did so immediately. Basically he wanted it to fear him to such an extent that it would bolt for the finish line when asked.

I handed in my notice there and then and left at the end of the day after treating the horses wounds.

While I will slap a muzzle of a biter I would never hit around the head for any other reason. If they force their leg down when it's supposed to be up they may get a slap on their sides and the leg picked straight up again with a growly 'Hold UP'. Mine lift their feet from a tap on the cannon and the command "Hold up".
 
I had one farrier wack a very sensitive (in foal) mare up under her belly with a rasp, he was told in no unsertain terms what i thought of his actions, and i never used him again!
Scarely though he was one of the farriers who train others, and i have heard from one who was with him for a while, some real horrer stories.
 
The described situations are very upseting. The problem is, the people who work with horses gets the routine and sometimes gets very uncareful and lose their emphaty.
Besides, every horsey job is very stressful, tiring (working long hours, even on bank holidays, etc), can be also very frustrating. Not everyone can deal with it. Unfortunately, some people use horses to get rid of their frustration. That's why this is so important to keep a positive atmosphere in the yard. And most of all, when you look for somebody to look after you horses, you need to find a person with positive attitude ;)
 
Not acceptable at all. A word of warning if you want to report a farrier though - unless you can produce at least two witnesses to what happened, don't even bother. FRC are not interested unless you have loads of witnesses, as I know from trying to complain about a farrier taking a rasp to my old horse's face because he moved his head round slightly to see what farrier was doing. The violent farrier I had was never allowed near my horse again, and if anyone asked they were told what a total p***k he was; almost everyone I spoke to had their own horror story, yet his is still a farrier because FRC won't believe anyone about him.
 
fjordhorsefan said:
Not acceptable at all. A word of warning if you want to report a farrier though - unless you can produce at least two witnesses to what happened, don't even bother. FRC are not interested unless you have loads of witnesses, as I know from trying to complain about a farrier taking a rasp to my old horse's face because he moved his head round slightly to see what farrier was doing. The violent farrier I had was never allowed near my horse again, and if anyone asked they were told what a total p***k he was; almost everyone I spoke to had their own horror story, yet his is still a farrier because FRC won't believe anyone about him.
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I don't yet have the full story of what the FRC have said to the owner, who is still raging at what happened.
But I understand that the cctv recording of what went on is apparently not acceptable to the FRC or WCF as it isn't a "true perception of what happened", the reason given I am told - is the FRC said they couldn't view the cctv as they wouldn't be able to hear the horse????????

I wonder if this is yet another setup who just claim money for issuing letters after a name?
I would imagine the guys name being brought up all around the area and the talk of the supposed fight, would be enough to raise attention to the guys poor poor behaviour.

ps some time back in the past I once saw a farrier who did the rasp to the face trick, then I watched the owner let pony go, pick up the rasp forcefully from the farrier, and use it upon the farriers face. I don't think that farrier ever worked again, and I respect the owner for the like 4 like response.
 
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alliebaxter said:
OMG i cant belive that with cctv evidence they wont do anything!
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But if they "Cannot hear the horse", surely it's not a fair case against the farrier? :rolleyes:
After all, maybe the horse said something out of order?
Wondering if it'll make youtube and the like, let the people conclude as they so wish?

(And yes I did it hear it right - hear the horse was actually the words used!)
 
Some of these stories are awful :(

I was recommended a farrier by others at the yard. Everyone seemed to be raving about how good he was etc so i had him come out to do my horse. He gave her a good look over (not sure what he was looking for) and she had a cut high up on her hind leg. I had recently bought the horse and she was having a struggle settling in with the new herd and so was coming in with all sorts of scrapes....anyway- I dont know why but he proceeded to poke his finger into the cut. Well let me tell you he almost got his head knocked off! I've never seen a horse kick so high or squeel so loud :( I really wasnt sure what to say, think my horse said it all :S.......
 
Maybe I'm from a different world, but I always expect my farrier to want to see my own horses walk/trot before going anywhere near them.
Then they spend time taking a close look, and having a good ol feel/look.

This particular "expert" didn't do anything of the like, no watching/looking/touching. He literally pulled out the tools, grabbed the leg and dug in - right or wrong? who knows, but not something I would be paying good money for!
Eye opening how many people have encountered trained people doing what I could only describe as abusing horses for money :(
 
every now and then this kind of treatment results in the horse responding namely,
1 dressage ride who regularly beat her horse fell off, and the horse took the opportunity to give her a good kicking,

and another where a fellow laid into a horse with a shovel, met the horse three years later, with a different owner, the horse recognised him and when the man walked into his yard killed him.
 
My friends had a very promising horse, which was very talented showjumper. Some people told them that they know wonderful rider, who is doing well on the competitions and will get all the best of the horse. After few weeks of training a horse got very frustrated and they could'n find the reason why. They asked the rider about it and he said that the horse is just bad tempered. They were quite concerned about that and they decided to come to the yard next day, a little bit earlier than usual. When they came to the yard they saw the groom cleaning the whip marks on their horse's bum (red of blood) :( That rider never rode their horse again :(
 
I do hope the owner gets a decent response from the professional body. I think they should also talk to the YO. If a YO thought that was acceptable behaviour I wouldn't want my horse in their care...
 
As a professional I do not agree with this at all. Hitting across the face for something that did not involve the head is incorrect and it also sounds as it the correction was far to slow.
 
People in the horsey world are some of the strangest I have ever met, some years ago a back lady (I say lady) was extemely rude to me for no other reason than I asked if could book an appointment, :( needless to say I didn't use her, and she was stopped being recommended by others soon after.
 
Pedantic said:
I didn't use her, and she was stopped being recommended by others soon after.
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And this is, what proffesionals should ALWAYS remember! There is a very important rule: 1 happy customer = 2 customers more, 1 unhappy customer = 7 customers less. Horsey world is very hermetic and if you screw anything up, it will be very hard to recover.

By the way, don't forget that not all the proffesionals are like this. I know many horsey people, who put all their heart into work and horses and they are very reliable.
This is so easy to complain about the others, but not many people would deal with such a hard job.
 
I went down to look after five stallion show jumpers , the previous groom had been threatening them with the fork, it was very obvious from all their behaviours.
I was not allowed to muck out the youngest one because he had "savaged" said groom, it took me three days to get on his side, and I thought he was the sweetest of the lot. But when the vet came to jab him, the vet said "I 'll give him a right belting if he plays up, I said, "well that'll be after you've laid me out!"
 
darkhorse123 said:
disgusting - i would have slapped him right back no matter how "famous " he was if he did that to my horse - omg!!!! :mad:
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i agree with this i would have knocked the pompous sh** on his a**!:mad:
imo some people get like this when working with them all day they become arrogant and up their own a** believing they are above evryone else:mad::mad::mad:
 
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