Audi A4 petrol estate and single Trailer

[Captain Lad]

We have an Audi A4 estate 2.0 petrol with these specifications below....checked with Audi and it can tow a breaked weight of 1500k. I have been looking at an i403 single trailer. My horse is around 650k - he was weight taped as 560k but is a heavy cob so could be up to 650k - trailer around 760k - 1410k....so pretty close to the max.

Does anyone tow close to the braked weight and would this estate with this weight be fit for the job? I am gutted that we have two company cars and no chance to change until 2026 and cant afford a box right now

Is anyone in a similar situation and having a successful experience? this would be for getting out locally and I cannot foresee us coming across any heavy terrain or hills....although would want to ensure we are safe if we were to!

Any insight would be much appreciated

 

[Widgeon]

I would check your manual to find out torque and braked horsepower (BHP). The Caravan Club, for what that's worth, recommend 40BHP per tonne towed.

Personally I wouldn't go quite so close to the max weight though, I tow a 401 with one horse and wouldn't really want to go below my current 1800kg capacity. I might consider it if it was only going to be doing 30mph on flat local lanes to get out and do a bit more hacking, but for dual carriageways, hills, or anything where you'd be going faster than about 35mph I'm not sure I'd fancy it.

 

[Widgeon]

Have a read of this and hopefully it will help you understand what's going on and why

What are horsepower, bhp and torque in a car? | AutoTrader

If you’re not already confused by terms like horsepower and torque, then acronyms like HP, BHP, PS and Nm might see you off. So, what do they all mean?

www.autotrader.co.uk

 

[Captain Lad]

Thank you for your replies @Widgeon. Prob should have mentioned it is automatic which cant help the situation. I will do some more research really looking forward to getting out and about on my lad

 

[Widgeon]

Prob should have mentioned it is automatic which cant help the situation.

I think you'll find people will argue that one both ways to be honest - just Google something like "do automatics tow less" and you'll see both sides straight away! I do tow with an automatic and I quite like having one less thing to think about.

ETA If I really had to keep weight down I'd think about a Bateson Derby if your horse will fit in one, they don't weigh anything!

Derby Lightweight Horse Trailer | Bateson Trailers

 

[Captain Lad]

I think you'll find people will argue that one both ways to be honest - just Google something like "do automatics tow less" and you'll see both sides straight away! I do tow with an automatic and I quite like having one less thing to think about.

ETA If I really had to keep weight down I'd think about a Bateson Derby if your horse will fit in one, they don't weigh anything!

Derby Lightweight Horse Trailer | Bateson Trailers

thanks for this will take a look!

 

[ihatework]

Don’t do it.
Too much risk for your horse and will knacker the car

 

[HopOnTrot]

As I said on the other thread about towing with an underpowered vehicle, one fart and you’ll be snaking down the road.

Spend your money on hiring a box when needed and when you can buy a suitable safe towing vehicle.

 

[Suncat]

Practically - years ago I towed (lightweight trailer and one cob) withy a diesel A4 estate but back then the model was a bit heavier and had a 1.8 or 2tn towing capacity I believe. It towed fine but struggled noticeably in reverse when maneuverering - the clutch did not last this sort of use though and really it was never built to I realise now. I learned the lesson and was luckily in the position to swap it for the bigger heavier quad A6. I did have an indecent (sudden tyre loss on the trailer) with that set up that ended very safely - that brought home the key aspect of towing - the vehicle must always be significantly heavier that the trailer to be able to [a] stop it at road speed and to anchor it and pull it straight if you get instability and (worse case) the trailer snaking.
Probably been said else where - by car towing capacities are worked out on a simple measure of how much weight it can get started on a gradient - to tow horses safely you'll need to look at a lot more factors (weight, braking capability, is the vehicle really built/engineering to tow weight) to make a safe assessment

 

[Tiddlypom]

A gutless auto is even worse at towing than an equivalent gutless manual.

Don’t risk it.

I have, in the past, towed with a car that wasn’t really up to the job . Never again.

 

[Annagain]

This is probably a good example of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should". You will be within the towing capacity and Audi will not risk their reputation or being sued by putting a capacity that the car isn't capable of towing on the spec. so you will be legal and safe if driven correctly. However, the wear and tear on your vehicle from towing that sort of weight regularly really wouldn't be what you'd want particularly at any speed or on difficult terrain. If it was, for example, a Defender towing close to the limit, I'd be less bothered as they're designed specifically with towing in mind whereas towing will be an afterthought on something like an A4 estate.

If you can, I'd get your horse weighed on a weighbridge so you know exactly what he weighs (and get the weightape on him on the same day so you can use that as a benchmark for any changes.) so you have a clear idea of what you're dealing with. Depending on his height, I think, even as a heavy cob, 650kg is possibly over generous. My last 4 horses (and my friend's maxi cob) have all been big strong chunky boys between 16.1 and 17hh and they've weighed between 604kg and 700g (the 17hh at his absolute heaviest). The maxi cob is 16.2 and at his heaviest weighs 630kg. You're right to overestimate in these circumstances (and the difference between 1300kg and 1400kg here is probably negligible) but it's always handy to have a more accurate idea of weight for all sorts of reasons.

As an aside, a while ago we had a weighbridge to my riding club so we did a guess the weight for 10 horses beforehand and turned it into a bit of a competition. I got photos of the horses, did a little profile of them and people had to guess their weight. Then when they were weighed we revealed their true weights. People overestimated the cobs and the TBs and massively underestimated the hunter types. It was really interesting.

 

[Captain Lad]

Just called Audi and the exact tow weight for my specific car is 1,700k breaked. This is making me feel a little better but still interested in opinion re: estate towing and if anyone is in my exact position

 

[Captain Lad]

This is probably a good example of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should". You will be within the towing capacity and Audi will not risk their reputation or being sued by putting a capacity that the car isn't capable of towing on the spec. so you will be legal and safe if driven correctly. However, the wear and tear on your vehicle from towing that sort of weight regularly really wouldn't be what you'd want particularly at any speed or on difficult terrain. If it was, for example, a Defender towing close to the limit, I'd be less bothered as they're designed specifically with towing in mind whereas towing will be an afterthought on something like an A4 estate.

If you can, I'd get your horse weighed on a weighbridge so you know exactly what he weighs (and get the weightape on him on the same day so you can use that as a benchmark for any changes.) so you have a clear idea of what you're dealing with. Depending on his height, I think, even as a heavy cob, 650kg is possibly over generous. My last 4 horses (and my friend's maxi cob) have all been big strong chunky boys between 16.1 and 17hh and they've weighed between 604kg and 700g (the 17hh at his absolute heaviest). The maxi cob is 16.2 and at his heaviest weighs 630kg. You're right to overestimate in these circumstances (and the difference between 1300kg and 1400kg here is probably negligible) but it's always handy to have a more accurate idea of weight for all sorts of reasons.

As an aside, a while ago we had a weighbridge to my riding club so we did a guess the weight for 10 horses beforehand and turned it into a bit of a competition. I got photos of the horses, did a little profile of them and people had to guess their weight. Then when they were weighed we revealed their true weights. People overestimated the cobs and the TBs and massively underestimated the hunter types. It was really interesting.

Thank you for this detailed response. Hes 15'3 heavy cob, def better to over estimate i would say but ideally will try to get him weighed. Hes only 4 too so will bulk out in coming years I am sure.

 

[Kaylum]

Are you allowed to tow using a company car? I presume its on lease. Just check first.

 

[Annagain]

The fact that it's an estate isn't an issue in itself as long as the towing capacity is correct. You can check it here but make sure you have the exact model and year as, as you will see from the lit there are dozens of possible matches, with very different capacities

Audi A4 - Towing Capacity & Weight Limit Information

Quickly search for the correct model and year to find the braked and unbraked towing capacity for your vehicle.

www.towingcapacity.co.uk

 

[Captain Lad]

Are you allowed to tow using a company car? I presume its on lease. Just check first.

Yes already checked this and asked if they can provide a supplier for the tow bar - as that I believe can invalidate the insurance if we dont use one of their suppliers.

 

[Captain Lad]

The fact that it's an estate isn't an issue in itself as long as the towing capacity is correct. You can check it here but make sure you have the exact model and year as, as you will see from the lit there are dozens of possible matches, with very different capacities

Audi A4 - Towing Capacity & Weight Limit Information

Quickly search for the correct model and year to find the braked and unbraked towing capacity for your vehicle.

www.towingcapacity.co.uk

I called Audi this morning to triple check as it was quite vague in the handbook itself even. They checked on their system 'elsa' (i think that was what he said) and used to specific weight, bps etc and was 1700k breaked

 

[teapot]

I called Audi this morning to triple check as it was quite vague in the handbook itself even. They checked on their system 'elsa' (i think that was what he said) and used to specific weight, bps etc and was 1700k breaked

Still not a lot of spare capacity frankly.

Have you driven this car yet? Or an equivalent to see how it feels generally?

Towing with autos is fine IF the car spec is up to it (hence why something like the VW Touareg is so popular). If this is a company car, surely you have a list to choose from or value to be within, are they all estates?

 

[Annagain]

This is a guide to another way to check if you want to be 100% sure. https://www.towingcapacity.co.uk/car-make-model/audi/audi-a4/

 

[ihatework]

I called Audi this morning to triple check as it was quite vague in the handbook itself even. They checked on their system 'elsa' (i think that was what he said) and used to specific weight, bps etc and was 1700k breaked

I’d want 2k minimum for a chunky cob. If he were to start throwing his weight around I’d be worried. An Audi A4 is in no way designed for horse towing

 

[Annagain]

Still not a lot of spare capacity frankly. Have you factored in the weight of the kit you’d be carrying? Water, tack, nets all adds up!

Have you driven this car yet? Or an equivalent to see how it feels generally?

Most of that can go in the car so won't need to be counted in the trailer weight. I'm not sure I'd want to do it from a car longevity point of view (if it's a company car OP might not care about that) but it is legal.

 

[teapot]

Most of that can go in the car so won't need to be counted in the trailer weight. I'm not sure I'd want to do it from a car longevity point of view (if it's a company car OP might not care about that) but it is legal.

No, but it’s still extra weight a potentially underpowered not designed for towing car will need to move.

 

[holeymoley]

Without sounding abrupt, I don't think you're really taking in to consideration the advice you're being given. I would do it with a small light 11/12.2hh pony for the sake of going along to a few lessons/pony club then it wouldn't really pose a problem. You're looking at transporting something bigger and heavier though. The car isn't up to it and in the long run as said you will put more wear and tear on everything- gearbox, brakes etc. Honestly, it's so much more relaxing knowing you have a car up to the job and you're not worrying about any time you could be diverted up a road with steep up or down hill gradients. I have towed with an estate car before, but with a pony and it's okay in the short-term for short main road journeys. Anything else, absolutely not.

 

[Captain Lad]

Still not a lot of spare capacity frankly.

Have you driven this car yet? Or an equivalent to see how it feels generally?

Towing with autos is fine IF the car spec is up to it (hence why something like the VW Touareg is so popular). If this is a company car, surely you have a list to choose from or value to be within, are they all estates?

This is our current company car we have had since June 2021, I have one too absolutely not even close to being up to the job. The list is very limited and they update them every 5 years. This is a 2021 model so next update will be 2026.

I am concerned also that the wiggle room isnt enough, Thanks for responding

 

[Captain Lad]

Without sounding abrupt, I don't think you're really taking in to consideration the advice you're being given. I would do it with a small light 11/12.2hh pony for the sake of going along to a few lessons/pony club then it wouldn't really pose a problem. You're looking at transporting something bigger and heavier though. The car isn't up to it and in the long run as said you will put more wear and tear on everything- gearbox, brakes etc. Honestly, it's so much more relaxing knowing you have a car up to the job and you're not worrying about any time you could be diverted up a road with steep up or down hill gradients. I have towed with an estate car before, but with a pony and it's okay in the short-term for short main road journeys. Anything else, absolutely not.

I dont understand your response. I have been taking in the responses and digesting. I have not confirmed I am moving forwards with this option only updated the information to reflect Audi advised they would say this is up to the job and can tow 1700k breaked. However I am asking on her for rounded advice given Audi are not specialists and only see this as a dead weight move and not moving precious cargo of a horse. I agree with above comments that 'just because you can doesn't mean you should' however also have friends saying this is a good idea. I really appreciate the responses and I am taking the advice in.

Thanks

 

[holeymoley]

I dont understand your response. I have been taking in the responses and digesting. I have not confirmed I am moving forwards with this option only updated the information to reflect Audi advised they would say this is up to the job and can tow 1700k breaked. However I am asking on her for rounded advice given Audi are not specialists and only see this as a dead weight move and not moving precious cargo of a horse. I agree with above comments that 'just because you can doesn't mean you should' however also have friends saying this is a good idea. I really appreciate the responses and I am taking the advice in.

Thanks

My apologies, there seems to be another thread about someone towing with an A4 too, I thought it was a second thread by the same person.

 

[Captain Lad]

My apologies, there seems to be another thread about someone towing with an A4 too, I thought it was a second thread by the same person.

Ahh No this is my first Thread on here today I have owned my new horse since May last year and feel its time we get out....for both our benefits as he is young and needs exposure to new situations. I have been lurking on this forum for sometime and getting some great tips Thought it was time I asked my own questions and set myself up

 

[abbijay]

I saw your post on insta and have replied there first.
Also, as an aside, we have a heavyweight cob on our yard about 16.1 that previously weighbridged at 780kg - more than my heavy horse! SO definitely worth seeing if you can get him on a weighbridge to give you a better idea.

 

[Captain Lad]

I saw your post on insta and have replied there first.
Also, as an aside, we have a heavyweight cob on our yard about 16.1 that previously weighbridged at 780kg - more than my heavy horse! SO definitely worth seeing if you can get him on a weighbridge to give you a better idea.

Oh wowzer! I bet that was a surprise! He is quite a heavy set boy and will bulk out in the coming years x

 

[phizz4]

Audi A4 - Towing Capacity & Weight Limit Information

Quickly search for the correct model and year to find the braked and unbraked towing capacity for your vehicle.

www.towingcapacity.co.uk

This will allow you to find your specific model. All of the current A4 Avant 2 litre petrol engines seem to be 1700kg maximum towing weight. In theory it should be possible, and the brakes would certainly cope (you should always try to brake very slowly and gently towing a horse trailer anyway). However, petrol engines don't tend to have the low down 'grunt' that diesels have so will need more revving, which is harder with an automatic. Having said that, my auto diesel Audi Avant has the option of manual changes by flicking the changer to the left, so you may have the same option. However, my advice based on towing with big old Volvo petrol cars in the past is don't risk it. The rear suspension is probably not up to the job, especially with that weight moving backwards and forward a little in the trailer, and you would have very little in reserve. I know that people on here argue about the Caravan Club towing recommendations of no more that 85% of the towing vehicles weight, but it is a useful guide. A quick search suggests that the car weighs around 1500 kg. 85% of that is 1275 kg. way below your proposed towing weight. The cost of having a tow bar fitted, with electrics, would pay for several days lorry hire.