Australia Ban Live Exports To Indonesia

The live shipping export is just horrendous - as mentioned in the article, exporting sheep to the middle east continues. Trouble is, cattle as in cloven hooved animals are just not suited to australia - they destroy the lanscape - which is poor enough already, the only reason they can produce that much is because they have that much space. They would be better farming kangaroos and camels I think! (and then exporting a high quality product on the hook).

There was a story a few years ago of a ship with sheep on and a disease broke out on the ship. The country they were intended for wouldn't take them, australia wouldn't take them back and the poor animals were out at sea for weeks on end, slowly dying. I think something like a million (could be a wrong number there - but a lot!) sheep ended up dying on board and were then thrown overboard :(
 
This upset me so much when i heard about it.
I really hope this ban is continued on these particular slaughter houses. I hope this also sends a message to the rest of the 'industry' that this sort of treatment of animals can not be tolerated.
Kx
 
Stencilface said:
There was a story a few years ago of a ship with sheep on and a disease broke out on the ship. The country they were intended for wouldn't take them, australia wouldn't take them back and the poor animals were out at sea for weeks on end, slowly dying. I think something like a million (could be a wrong number there - but a lot!) sheep ended up dying on board and were then thrown overboard :(
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Very wrong on numbers - no-one knows exactly how many died after Saudi Arabia refused to let them in, but it would have been an absolute maximum of 40,000 ('cos that's about as many as they can jam into one shipment!)

The live export trade from Australia is pretty horrendous - with deaths in transit of cattle increasing over the past few years - less sheep dyding - but only because less re being exported!
 
JanetGeorge said:
Very wrong on numbers - no-one knows exactly how many died after Saudi Arabia refused to let them in, but it would have been an absolute maximum of 40,000 ('cos that's about as many as they can jam into one shipment!)

The live export trade from Australia is pretty horrendous - with deaths in transit of cattle increasing over the past few years - less sheep dyding - but only because less re being exported!
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See, I knew the numbers were wrong!

Even 10 000 sheep would be a massive amount though :(
 
I think this is the case you mean?

Australia

Australia exports around four million live sheep every year, mostly to the Middle East every year. They may have travelled up to 50 hours by road to get to the sea port. This is followed by a journey of up to three weeks by sea and a further journey by road at the other end. Shockingly, around 40,000 sheep die every year before they reach their destination.
....
When things go wrong

In 2003 the Cormo Express carried 58,000 sheep from Australia to Saudi Arabia but was not allowed to unload. The sheep remained on board for three months in appalling and deteriorating conditions. Over 5,000 died.

Fire, delays or sinking of livestock ships result in the suffering and death of large numbers of animals. In December 2009 more than 17,000 cattle and 10,500 sheep were reported drowned when the Danny F II ship transporting them from Uruguay to Syria capsized in a storm off the coast of Tripoli, with the loss of the Captain and several crew. In March 2010 263 of the several thousand cattle on the Ocean Shearer died, possibly due to the ship being delayed en route from Australia to Egypt.
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http://www.ciwf.org.uk/what_we_do/live_transport/main_concerns.aspx

It's unforgiveable - I am not a veggie, I happily eat meat - local whenever I can - but no animal should have to go through this before they end up on our plates.:mad:

I want one day to have a smallholding so I can supply my own meat - at least then I can be sure it's had a good life. And I want a short, finite journey limit for animals travelling to slaughter.
 
The whole Australian live export business stinks,it is to their shame it continues.I buy nothing from that source as my own pathetic protest,and was one of many thousands writing letters to the minister responsible in Australia.
They need to clean up and show some degree of compassion towardss farm stock.Just google "sheep ships" or "mulesing" to see just why it makes me feel ill for those animals.
Obviously then they think the treatment prior to slaughter in Saudi is just fine..be brave..watch it and see for yourselves.
 
So far only transportation to a couple of abattoirs have been temporairily ceased, ( 11 I think ) as they were mistreating ( tortouring) the animals once they arrived.
If anyone is interested, WSPA is running a campaign to stop live exports of animal for slaughter.
Kx
 
Oh ..so the Saudi treatment,where anyone can buy a sheep,stuff it in the boot of the car and "home slaughter" it is ok? Someone needs to wake up and join the rest of the Western world in humane animal treatment.
 
Quote:

Indonesia reacts

Indonesia's vice minister of agriculture, Bayu Krisnamurthi, has warned against an overreaction to the report in Australia, noting the importance of the live cattle trade to both countries.

"Please respond to the video proportionally," Bayu told reporters before the ban was announced, in comments published in the Jakarta Globe today.



Words fail me! :mad::mad:

The Four Corners video was beyond horrific, those poor animals having to endure a gruesome painful death.

Australia should hang its head in shame!


Do not watch if easily upset, it is very graphic!

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/special_eds/20110530/cattle/
 
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Well obviously if no ban is mentioned in relation to Saudi..and the other is just "tempory" ..then your agriculture minister must think it is? :rolleyes:
 
EAST KENT said:
Oh ..so the Saudi treatment,where anyone can buy a sheep,stuff it in the boot of the car and "home slaughter" it is ok? Someone needs to wake up and join the rest of the Western world in humane animal treatment.
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I don't think we should be criticising the Saudis too much over this - it was the Indonesian slaughterhouses that were found to be appalling. The Saudis refused entry for sheep with health problems (which obviously got worse when they were stuck on board for weeks.)
 
All live exports for slaughter should be banned, its unfair on the animals, and uneconomic.

No animal of any description should be put through this barbaric trade.
 
applecart14 said:
Totally despicable behaviour from so called humans that are meant to be intelligent species.
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No - we're talking about Indonesians! Remember what they did in East Timor? Remember the 5 Australian and 1 British journalists the Indonesian forces murdered - because the journalists would have exposed some of their dreadful excesses!! And the lies and cover-ups that followed! They treat humans worse than WE treat animals - what hope have animals got there!

(And if you're ever tempted to smuggle a few ounces of cannabis with you when you holiday in Bali, don't! They treat foreign prisoners JUST as badly as they do animals!
 
JanetGeorge said:
No - we're talking about Indonesians! Remember what they did in East Timor? Remember the 5 Australian and 1 British journalists the Indonesian forces murdered - because the journalists would have exposed some of their dreadful excesses!! And the lies and cover-ups that followed! They treat humans worse than WE treat animals - what hope have animals got there!

(And if you're ever tempted to smuggle a few ounces of cannabis with you when you holiday in Bali, don't! They treat foreign prisoners JUST as badly as they do animals!
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Oh JG you are so right again!

Too short of time to punch in anything more................
 
OMG.. I could only watch a short bit my eyes are still streaming.

My niece is a researcher involved with this report and she told me about the graffic scenes she had to watch. I can only be grateful for her and others who have the guts to challenge the government & open up peoples eyes to the horrible things we as so called intelligent higher beings inflict on poor animals.
Cheers Anne for your research and work involved in getting this out in the open and better treatment for animals.
 
i can remember seeing footage of australians shooting wild horses from helecopters, utterly disgraceful, and seeing how they treat the kangaroos, not to mention the abo's.

do they seriously think they have the right to call the indonesians cruel when they are so barbaric themselves, they should put their own house in order first, then ban all live exports, there is no justifiable reason for live export for meat anywhere on this planet.

what infuriates me most is all these things go on and on, and no governments seem to ever stop it all, in a way that takes animal welfare forwards, what sort of people are these politiciens what do they really know about the real world as it is, and where is their courage and concience? or are they simply oblivous to it all, or just plain thick?
 
I'm absolutely fuming!

Has anyone in this thread been to australia? Lived out there? Because I have!!!!!

I have mulesed lambs. And you know what? I was glad to be doing it. Because finding a yearling ewe who when I touched her, her skin fell off in my hands to reveal a second skin of maggots due to fly strike and her pitiful dying moans because I had nothing to hand I could put her out of her misery with... Dear lord, do you really want to condemn more of these beautiful animals to that?

We lost hundreds in the year I was out there. I would go home and shower and the stench of death, flystrike and rotting flesh wouldn't leave no matter how hard I scrubbed. The image of one yearling ewe with maggots crawling out of her eye sockets whilst they ingested her brain (fortunately we were able to euthanise her) is one that I will never forget.

Mulesing is bloody, messy, but the lambs get up and run off. They were also tagged, vacc'd, drenched and castrated and it was still nothing like flystrike.

As for the ships, I've worked with sheep destined for them but never went to the yards. The vaccination process for the ships is strict, all ewes are scanned and any pregnant ewes are left behind. All sheep are sheared so they're carrying minimal weight. It's not ideal, but believe you me it's nothing like you picture it in your heads!!!!

As for how they treat wildlife... most australian's refuse to eat Kangeroo because it's their national embelam.

The only thing I'll agree on is their treatment of Aborigionals... And even then I don't think most the users on here have any idea on that situation either!!!
 
We are not all as ignorant as you think;Before you leap in and defend ,how about YOU travel to Saudi in the BOTTOM deck where all the poop and pee ends up.And incidently where at least one lamb was born,with just it`s shoulders showing above the slurry.
There are many good Australians just as mortified at this trade as the rest of the world,good friends in fact. What is done there to a breed of sheep basically unsuitable for the extreme climate..i.e. mulesing and now skin tacking..would in UK gain a prosecution.
Our country is far from perfect,but out and out deliberate cruelty does almost cause a rabid riot here.
 
Merino's were bred in the mediterranean!! How much more suitble for a desert do you want a sheep to be?

They cope remarkably well with the environment. It's the flies that are the killers.

Okay, they were misbred into having more wrinkled skin than is healthy and it's absolutely a priority to breed out these folds!! But until then they need removing and it doesn't look like the AWB is going to ban mulesing any time soon!

In the UK, leaving the dead bodies of sheep for carrion is illegal. In australia, collecting up all the corpses across 9,000 acres when you have over 3,000 sheep is impractical.

They're different countries and you cannot compare.

Also, Australian's suffer the same townie versus cocky problems we have in the UK. Just because you live can live in the same state (that happens to be the size of europe...) as a sheep farmer does NOT mean you know what goes on there!!
 
tristar said:
i can remember seeing footage of australians shooting wild horses from helecopters, utterly disgraceful, and seeing how they treat the kangaroos, not to mention the abo's.

do they seriously think they have the right to call the indonesians cruel when they are so barbaric themselves, they should put their own house in order first, then ban all live exports, there is no justifiable reason for live export for meat anywhere on this planet.
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And how would YOU suggest brumbies are culled. We're talking VERY wild feral animals that can run the average stock horse off its legs 3 times over, often in terrain where using off-road vehicles is impossible at the speed brumbies travel.

And if they're not culled, they die of starvation - having destroyed the local environment in the meantime.

And 'roos are shot to control numbers - using high powered rifles. Unpleasant part of life in the outback - but better than starvation.

The outback of Australia is very harsh indeed - even BIG stations have no mains water, no mains electricity, and certainly no corner shop!

A bit like much of Indonesia - the reason for live export is that a large proportion of the population there - and in other countries too - don't have the luxury of a fridge. They buy meat fresh killed - and use it in 24 hours before it goes rotten in excessively humid climates, Meat that has been transported chilled/frozen has to be used even quicker! Now that's no excuse for inhumane slaughter - but it IS a reason for live export.
 
Serenity - you do make me laugh :)

Yes, I have lived in Australia - that doesn't change the fact the live export should be stopped does it?

They don't eat kangaroos because most don't value it as meat, which is why it is usually used as dog food, they have no problem in shooting their national emblem for that do they?

Aboriginals - yes I know how they treat them, I have worked there ;)
 
There are many aspects of the Live Animal Export Trade, which I don't understand.

Whilst in the report, it's been stated that in Indonesia the average home doesn't have refrigeration or freezing capabilities, I fail to see how that can influence the supply, when slaughter houses sell it fresh, but would still have chilling capabilities, themselves.

The cost of transporting live animals, if worked out at the $ to the kilo rate, must be astronomic, when compared with the cost of shipping processed meats.

Would it be so difficult for Australia to supply inspectors at the points of entry, and at the point of killing? If the industry, to Australia, is that important, then the cost of the inspectors should be acceptable.

If the Governments on both sides were to sharpen up their acts, as well as their knives, I'd have thought that the trade could continue, but with safe guards, in place.

Alec.
 
According to news reports today the trade will continue, it is only suspended. Once they have some safe guards in place it will start again. I can say that the cattle industry were just as dismayed as the general population. But the economy cannot afford for the cancellation of live exports.

It is not something i am in favour of, and I think there has to be more inspection and follow up of these o/s abbatoirs.


Culling
With regards to culling the middle of australia has millions of feral animals including horses, (approx 400 000), donkeys (in excess of a million) camels (500 000), buffalos, goats and they do cull these animals with guns from helicoptors etc.It is necesary.

Aussies eat pretty much anything and emu, cocodile, kanagaroo, rabbit and goat are pretty readily available. We occasionally have kangaroo - can't say I am mad keen on it myself but I don't eat much meat. (I prefer casseroles where you cannot recognise what it is you are eating or mince sauces.) The only time I had it was when OH told me it was steak. All my kids have tried all the above animals they are not sqeamish at all. Kangaroo is stocked in local supermarkets for human consumption.
 
Ah Serenity. Once again you are here to share the enormous experience that you have on any given subject anyone may care to mention. Thank goodness. A day without one of your lectures is like a day without sunshine. Had it occurred to you that you might not be alone in having experience in some of these matters?
 
I live in Aus and work for the Dept of Ag and this is MHO... ;)

If you can access it (and have a very strong stomach) watch the 4 Corners report (www.abc.net.au/iview then search or link above) I managed about a third.
Within the industry there has been objections to the live export for a long time, but this report has finally recieved enough public exposure (it was being discucced in the hairdressers on Wed in Sydney!) to finally generate the political pressure to get some action which will hopefully result in some positive results.
Should it happen? No. not nessecary Aus has the facilities to process the meat and would create some much needed jobs in the 'top end' Slaughter houses nationally have been going out of buisness due to lack of demand. Often whole towns relied on the abottoir to keep it alive. The 'fresh' argumant shouldn't hold any sway as given its proximity beef could be slaughtered, packaged and shipped in a week - about the same time it takes to get to the shelf of your local shop (not entierly sure about all butchers). We have approvaed 'halal' abbotoirs and procedures. Will it casue fincial loss? Yes, temporarily. Unfortunately all the 'loud' voices are the corporate stations (there are exceptions). The family owned busnisses (well only some to be fair) are and have been looking for alternative markets/options for a while.

The other aspect to consider is that part of the problem is general lack of education in Indonesia. A lot of the people working in the abbottoirs in Indonesia will have been beated and by our standards, mistreated all their lives. So while their actions shock us it is not so far from the 'norm' for them. I'm not excusing their behavoir (which is frowned on by their own church) just trying to paint the big picture. So the best solution is like for so many problems is EDUCATION. SO if you really want to help the cattle write a letter to the embassy expressing your outrage at the treatment and your support for either stopping the live trade entierly (ideal but unlikely) or any program educating the locals. Better planned than the last....

Musling - as Serenity described is better than fly-strike. However there are lines of quality Merinos that don't have the excess skin (1/2 of NZ's sheep), and in Aus. The quality of wool is not affected and people are going to have to let go of the 'bloodline they've used for generations' and make the swap. The govenment will never enforce it but the fashion market is pushing the change slowly.

Yes we should eat kangaroo and camel. Camel is easy to farm, Kangaroo is harder as they haven't been domesticated for the last 1000 yrs and even if hand reared still get stressed around humans very easily. Stress releases chemicals into the blood/meat making it taste unpleasant. It also has to be cooked carefully or ends up tough as dried out old leather boots (found out the hard way).

On the shooting of the horses - it is less stressful for them (scientific evidence to back up) than coralling them and shipping to a slaughter house or seperating into small groups and being shot by a licensed killer. They are naturally fligt animals The shooters in the choppers have to under go special training and are some of the best shots in the country. There is also a time limit on how long they can persue a group. The horses also learn pretty damm quick that if they hide under bushes the choopers can't find them!!! :cool:

I'm not going to get into the whole Aborigine debarcle, becasue it is a total failure on both sides.

This is totally my opinion.
Overall Australia, while it would like to claim otherwise, is a shocking country if you look at its human rights, animal cruelty, and environmental record. Narrow minded and incredibly racist for all its multi-cultural claims and as a nation ignorant.
Having said that there are a lot of good things about living here, it has some incredibly beautiful and unique landscapes and wildlife, and there are lots of lovely people.
 
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