Awful Hacker!

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rachelha

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Every time i take my horse out on a hack (we have no choice but to do road work as yard is on a road with no off road hacking until about half a mile walking on busy road) she just completely blows her mind. With or without company, whether she is schooled before or not, lead or ridden - she just loses it! I'd love to be able to take her on adventures and she absolutely loves being out she just gets overly excited and becomes dangerous - I've had her for 3 years and can count on 2 hands the amount of times we've been out.

To explain her behaviour briefly - she jogs nonstop, after a minute or 2 of walking on road she will start spooking at oncoming cars (i say spooking but she is not actually scared of them) and running infront of them causing them to usually do emergency stops (yes she is really that bad). if being lead she trots sideways and bucks at cars coming from behind. sometimes she just starts walking backwards as fast as she can until she is almost sitting on the car bonnet. she spins and bolts when she is faced with slightly narrow roads and oncoming cars (almost like she has claustraphobia.)

I really want to get her to be safe on the roads but I dont know where to start because she is going to end up killing us both. She is fine standing at the bottom of the drive watching all busy traffic going past, even coaches and lorries/trailers etc she doesnt blink. but as soon as shes walking on the road she just flips!

Any suggestions or should i accept that it will never happen?

Can you believe she was sold to me as a confident hacker with or without company?! first time i took her out she threw me into a lamp post
 
Have you tried calmer? This may help. We also have an anglo who gets some sedelin when she comes back into work, just a smidge then a serious lunge then ridden.
If you have trandport have you tried boxing her to some off road hacking? If she never goes out this could be the problem, and she is hoping to just have a really good blast
 
I have has a horse who was a toad to hack, it sounds as though yours is not really scared of the traffic as such so I would try hacking in a safe place where the horse can blow out if need be.

I would then go out on the busier road and repeat if needed you can even get friends to drive past on quiet road just to accustom horse to traffic if need be.
 
I dont have any transport at the minute but am hoping to get some soon so i will be able to do that. Its just the traffic thing thats the big problem, and if i do decide to take her out then we have to walk immediately out onto quite a busy road which is very annoying.

It would be a huge bonus if she'd lunge as she is so highly strug, but she refuses to do that aswell!
 
Oh, and i tried her on a few different calmers last year but they didnt work on her - i tried magnitude, the top spec calmer and equina repax which stopped her bucking and bolting but only when in the school. Do you know of any that work?
 
You are braver than I would be. Lost a horse on the road 31 years ago and am still traumatised by it. We weren't even on the road- stood on the verge waiting to cross and a motorbike went into her leg playing silly beggers. So gutted, still am. Has anyone suggested ACP. I know you can ride on it because I have had to bringing a post surgery horse back into work on it to stop him bucking with excitement and damaging himself when he was only meant to be walking! If you could get her into the habit of being calm on the road, maybe you could gradually reduce the dose. Frankly though, because of my past experiences and the very scary nature of your description :eek: you quite simply could not pay me enough to sit on your horse on the road. Balls of steal and then some! Please be careful though, you don't even have to be on the road to have a car hit you- hope you both wear high Viz gear. Best of luck!
 
Have a search on here for chaste berries they are used for pmt in women as well as horses. I have just put my mare on them 3/4 weeks now and she is a changed horses. Its as if she has taken a huge sigh and relaxed.
Have gone from dreeding getting on to looking forward to riding. They are about £10 from e bay for a huge bag so not a lot of money to "waste" if no difference
 
Sounds like a chicken and egg situation. If you've only been out a handful of times in 3 years then its not enough of a routine for her (not your fault though). Can you get someone who is used to "naughty" horses to hack her out for you? (old fashioned nagsman type). They need to be able to sit there with no tension whilst getting the horse to move forward not sideways. Agree with the Hi Viz post, can't understand why people don't wear it.

Re the calmer, try something like oxyshot - but read the instructions as some of them need to be administered on an "empty stomach" so that they are absorbed into the system.

Good luck, hacking is so important for both horse and rider's sanity, you can't spend your life going around in circles in a school. If your horse really does have an issue with traffic then yes, hire a lorry and go out somewhere to avoid it
 
I can recommend Sedalin. I have had to use it on my boy recently as he had an operation and I had to bring him back into work in walk whilst on box rest. The routine that worked for me was to give him some sedalin and then give it a good hour to get into his system, he was fine to ride having had it. It is a bit of a pain waiting for it to get into the system but there are always other jobs to do at the yard whilst waiting. It may also help to have a safe calm non reacting babysitter whist on the Sedalin.

I agree with the others that if you are only doing it every now and then that will not be helping but you have way more guts than me as I would have given up a long time ago.

If all else fails is there any chance of moving to a yard where you don’t have to do busy road work?

Good luck.
 
I certainly wouldn't hack out a horse that's had sedation of any kind! Unfortunately not all horses are suited to hacking and it can just blow their minds. My mare is very similar allthough, she is fine in traffic, on her own or with other horses except when she spots something, be it a person walking a dog or another horse etc and then she can just explode :-(

You need to go back to basics and have some sort of training method established with your horse that you can apply when out hacking. ie you need to teach your horse to yield to pressure and lower her head when asked and practice practice practice in a safe environment before you venture out again. Lowering her head will help to lower her adrenelin. I find this helps a great deal.

It actually sounds like your mare suffers more from anxiety out hacking and needs to get reassurance from you. However it is certainly not worth endangering yourself trying to hack your horse out as she is at the moment.
 
You haven't said what you are feeding either but I would look at changing that if there is a high protein count. Agree you are in a catch 22. You are not hacking so therefore when you do it blows your mares brain. Even my stalwart old mare blew up big time after not hacking during the snow and she is a lovely hack (normally!). I would look transporting her away from the roads firstly and having as suggested another experienced trainer to hack her at first. Alternatively is there any way you could find a yard where you do not have to negotiate traffic? Sometimes yards do not suit the horse even though it is great for the rider.
 
Out so few times in many years isn't enough. Go back to basics and start again. Long reigning and lunging and walking out in hand to get used to being out.

Is he stabled too much? How much turnout per day?
 
if she's fine standing and watching at the end of the drive that's what you need to do more often to start with, then build up to walking in hand just 20 yards up the road and then back again, but you need to be calm!!! build it up little by little ;) do lots of ground work in the school so that she starts looking to you for instruction and confidence. if you really want to hack it's something you're going to have to work at rather than just go for it and hope she eventually calms down!
 
^^^^^ What Ibblebibble said.


Mine was terrified of traffic- I put him in a paddock next to the road but I appreciate you may not be able to do this.

I spent many hours stood on the verge/driveway end to my yard with him in his bridle just watching.

First hacks were literally minutes down the road and back.....

You do need to do it constantly though...we're talking every day.

Mine hack outs now fine on his own, in company- the only thing that he looks at now is yellow line markings- but he's gone from reversing at speed and spinning round to high stepping over them:D.

You need to be relaxed and calm- not easy I know....but try pretending to be calm- deep breaths- singing.....try turn the fear into a positive.
 
I am sorry that I can't offer you any suggestions except for never, under any circumstances take a horse like that out on the roads. It is not only you and your horse that you risk killing, but other road users too. I have a similar horse who was a pain to hack and I never risked her on the roads. I just had to accept that she wasn't a hacking horse. I could take her out off road, though she was still nutty! Luckily she excelled at show jumping and dressage so it wasn't too bad. My new boy is just the same. We have only hacked out once since I got him and I could have done with a G & T when I returned. As others have suggested, take your horse out in a box to somewhere safe. That is what I plan to do with mine if I am able to ride him again (he's recovering from KS surgery).
 
Have you tried riding at a good, forward trot? I think if she's not scared of the traffic itself there is scope for sorting it but you can't persevere if you can't find a way to keep you both and other road users relatively safe while you are a work in progress.

I would try the trotting, if you haven't already, following another horse if you want to avoid the spooking but alone or in front if you'd rather keep her calmer. Some horses are just too hard to keep settled and behaving in walk when they're wired about a situation and if you are able to ride more forward this could be the solution.

FWIW Flame used to shy and nap all the way out and prance and run sideways all the way home. The solution to both was to keep trotting in any situation where we just needed to keep going in a straight line!

Having said all this, you do need to be realistic about the risks and if you think you are putting yourself , your horse and other people in danger, you can't keep trying. :(
 
rachelha said:
she spins and bolts when she is faced with slightly narrow roads and oncoming cars (almost like she has claustraphobia.)
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Oh, just re-read this bit. She is scared of the traffic - when its narrow and oncoming. I honestly don't think this problem is a sortable one, sorry. :(
 
I had similar to this with my horse when I first got him. He was a swine hacking, wouldn't go past anything, would spin and charge off. I couldn't even get him off the yard on his own. He would smear me into walls, trees etc. He wasn't actually scared of traffic as such but had issues that manifested themselves in that way. Calmer never worked.
He is now a brilliant hack but I had to make radical changes in his routine. It got to the point where I could either sell him or try something new. Here are the things that helped with mine -
Moved yards to a farm. Had to sacrifice having an arena! Increased turnout from 1 hour per day winter and 12 hours a day summer to 12 hours a day winter and 24 hours summer.
Swapped haylage for hay.
Cut feed right down to a handful of low calorie chaff.
Hacked out with another very calm horse avoiding the really busy roads at first.
Walked out in hand alone so he could see the traffic - LOTS of times!
Worked on my own breathing, confidence, assertiveness as a rider and learned how to calm the horse down while riding.
Made sure we went somewhere every week or so where we could have a good blast to blow out the cobwebs, and made an effort to lunge him when he feels frisky - to get the bucking out of his system!
It took 6 months at the farm, hacking out only with his companion a couple of times a week, before I was confident enough to take him out alone. Then I would only go out for 10 mins or something, and ALWAYS dismounted when something scary appeared. I had a strap to grab across my saddle when he spun so I didn't come off. Eventually after nearly a year I felt I had cracked it and he accepted hacking - and we can now go pretty much anywhere and he is not bothered by anything much.

Hope that helps! Stay safe though!
 
Seeing this thread, I think I should change my name!
One of mine is an utter nightmare on roads - even quiet roads, where a small dog at a gate will render him apoplectic! e is happy with cars, tractors, trucks, anything that we can throw at him around the yard, but EVERYTHING he sees on a road is a monster.

I've come to the conclusion that it's not worth the risk, and any hacking needs to be in fields, roads are off the menu. It's not all bad though, as there are always things to do with them in the school or even in the paddocks.

Overall, I think the OP and I should both stay off the roads with our particular "awful hackers"... sometimes the cake is just not worth the candle and I think this seems to be one of those instances. It's not easy to accept, though, really. Putting it another way, if a horse goes ballistic, even the best of riders will be unlikely to have the pure physical strength to keep him safe as he hurtles towards a car or truck, or anything else for that matter.
 
Several problems here:

1. Horse is dangerous to hack because either it is scared of hacking/traffic or because it has no confidence in rider and is picking up rider's nerves or because it is being bolshy and trying it on with rider.
2. Rider is probably, understandably, nervous at repeated failures, so gives off vibes of nervousness to the horse.

so vicious circle.

Depending on cause of (1), I might:

1. Ask a confident-hacking professional to take her out and see how her behaviour is. If she's perfect, then her behaviour is changeable with the right rider. But, how many professionals will risk their lives to ride her and find out?

2. if she is well-behaved with professional, then the rider needs to address her nerves/problems so that she can ride like the professional, and give off the same confidence vibes that the professional does.

Also:
1. Ditch the feed. Put the horse on forage - hay and grass.

2. Tack appropriately for safety and ensure she's comfy in her tack.

3. Dress rider appropriately for safety so she feels 100pc before she gets on board.

If she's frightened of traffic, you could go down the route of always hacking with a safe partner but if the mare's that scared, then will it work? Or will you just end up putting 2 horses and 2 riders into conflict with innocent passing road users? Esp as your initial road is always a busy road.

Some horses are nightmares to hack, whether it's with one particular rider/owner or with anyone who gets on them. In this case, it's just not worth the risk to horse, rider or innocent passing public, to take them onto roads, ever. If that's the case and hacking is what you want to do, you'll have to rehome her and find a safe hack. If you want to keep her, then if that's the case, you'll have to do without hacking or move to a yard where there is direct off-road, fenced hacking.
 
Can you get a good instructor to help you? I think if it were me I would first get them to work on her lunging with me - that way you can give her a good lunge to settle her down before you get on. Once she's better to lunge the same instructor could help you trying to get her out and about - even if they conclude she's just not safe to take out I do think it would be worth it because at least you know, and it may be something they can help you to solve.

Good luck, and stay safe :)
 
have you had her eyes checked? could be that she's wary of cars coming at her because she struggles to see them properly?
just a thought, im afraid i cant really offer any other advise :(
best of luck and hope you manage to get her problems sorted.
 
I think that you need pro help too. It sounds as though the mare is part scared, part bolshy - and more than anything not getting the reassurance and boundries from you. The lunging was the biggest indication. I've never met a horse that can't be lunged.. I've met plenty that the owners couldn't lunge and that came in at you or ran and ran, but once they were lunged properly they soon calmed down. Perhaps I've just been lucky.

It sounds as though this is not the horse for you. I would be tempted to send her off for some schooling where they can assess her and work towards selling her for you. This is your hobby - it should be fun, not putting yours and other lives in danger..
 
TicTac said:
I certainly wouldn't hack out a horse that's had sedation of any kind!
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Actually the vet suggested it and supplied the ACP with his blessings! It was that or going down the road flybucking in walk- not great post op and frankly exactly the kind of strain we were trying to avoid.


Secondly haven't read entire thread but people have asked how you are feeling-CRUCIAL- to do this you have got to be totally clam and transmitting total calm to the horse. Was at one yard where a horse was meant to be nuts on the road. One brave child well teenager insisted on riding it out so I went out with her and 2 others. We boxed it in- one infront, one at the side and one behind slowing traffic - so it couldn't move out of the box we had created- teenager was totally calm- kept telling her no matter what she was feeling she had to transmitt calm to that horse- suddenly horse was cool as a cuecumber. Don't ask me to ride it though- it's not your horse that scares me it's the traffic and I know I can't find that sort of calm on the road unless I have to because it's my horse. When it's my horse, my problem I can find anythig required but I wouldn't take the risk for someone else now.
 
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Just another thought but if, god forbid, you took your mare out and caused an accident, your insurance would not cover you as you knowingly risked yourself, horse and other road users...

End of the day, this is your hobby, not a cross to bear!
 
Have you been out with another horse? I think id be looking for another yard with off road hacking or very quiet lanes.
I use global herbs super calm, thats good stuff. It may help.
 
Luci07 said:
Just another thought but if, god forbid, you took your mare out and caused an accident, your insurance would not cover you as you knowingly risked yourself, horse and other road users...

End of the day, this is your hobby, not a cross to bear!
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Why would her insurance not cover her? TBH we all knowingly risk ourselves, horse and other road users when we hack out.....no horse is 100% safe hacking.....
 
Bionic Boy said:
I can recommend Sedalin. I have had to use it on my boy recently as he had an operation and I had to bring him back into work in walk whilst on box rest. The routine that worked for me was to give him some sedalin and then give it a good hour to get into his system, he was fine to ride having had it. It is a bit of a pain waiting for it to get into the system but there are always other jobs to do at the yard whilst waiting. It may also help to have a safe calm non reacting babysitter whist on the Sedalin.

I agree with the others that if you are only doing it every now and then that will not be helping but you have way more guts than me as I would have given up a long time ago.

If all else fails is there any chance of moving to a yard where you don’t have to do busy road work?

Good luck.
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I'd be very wary on riding on sedation without vet advice and the vet and you knowing your horse very well. (This is not me saying I don't agree as think is down to you, the horse and the vet and sounds like yours was necessary and worked).

My little mare goes barmy on sedalin, she absolutely fights it until it's worn off. Was horrible watching her on it and would never use the stuff on her again. (We do use it on other horses and works wonders)
Can't remember the name but our vet swore by another type which was meant to work faster and stronger and had a huge amount of backing, with his advice we gradually got to double the dose with absolutely no reaction from her. (luckily not the sedalin reaction) but my mare is cool as a cucumber 90% of the time and learned the hard way that your average sedation is not the way to go with her.

OP I would honestly call it a day on roads personally - get a professional to work her possibly, but don't put yourself and others in danger. Having seen a horse that should never have been out on the road with it's rider (From the moment she left the yard it was rearing and spinning and rider terrified) carreer into my friends trailer and livestock I wouldn't take the risk. All that you need is a kid on a bike or her to go through a windscreen and how many lives would be ruined. Sorry to say it but that's my honest opinion, just like a car, if a horse is not fit for a road it shouldn't be on a road.

Pan x
 
Hippona said:
Why would her insurance not cover her? TBH we all knowingly risk ourselves, horse and other road users when we hack out.....no horse is 100% safe hacking.....
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Mainly because you are required to be in control of your horse on a road. No-one can account for an accident out of the blue, but an accident due to negligence (unfit to be on road, wrong tack etc) is entirely different.

Worse than the insurance not paying out though, could you truly live with knowing that you were riding a horse out that you have reasonable doubt over it's safety? I couldn't. (This isn't meant nastily at all).

Pan
 
Sounds a difficult one.

I wondered whether you could find a situation (that you might have to travel to) where you could simulate a 'road' situation, but in a private location so all of the drivers, obsticles etc were actually positioned by you, so danger would be minimised? Would need to be cordoned off from actual roads securely in case she got loose...

I would usually suggest leading in hand, but you have tried that unsucessfuly.
 
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