Puppy
Well-Known Member
Oh don't worry, you are definitely on the list of racists!
Your ignorance is disgusting,
As is your spelling! All the muslims I know can write in better English than you can! 
BA to serve Halal only meals !
- Thread starter Gingerwitch
- Start date
Oh don't worry, you are definitely on the list of racists!
Your ignorance is disgusting,
As is your spelling! All the muslims I know can write in better English than you can! perfect11s
Well-Known Member
Oh thank you!!! one day you will hopefully be older wiser and not so narrowmided, be better at understanding how the world works and why people hold the views they do and their agendas...how it will affect you and the world you and your family have to live in...Oh don't worry, you are definitely on the list of racists!
Your ignorance is disgusting,
Minxie
Well-Known Member
Okay I'd normally never do this as i'm the worst spelling in the world but it did make me chuckle
.Adultry = adultery
enless = endless
christans = christians
persicuted = persecuted
moslem = muslim
citicens = citizens
inocent = innocent
suzysparkle
Well-Known Member
Seriously?! Seriously?! Did you just quote the BNP website as a source of news...?!
*head explodes*
Someone asked where people heard about this possible change. I had actually seen it on the FT website, but, did a google search to see where else it came up. That was one of the places, amongst others, which I also mentioned.
Jeez................
perfect11s
Well-Known Member
Cheers ...Okay I'd normally never do this as i'm the worst spelling in the world but it did make me chuckle
Adultry = adultery
enless = endless
christans = christians
persicuted = persecuted
moslem = muslim
citicens = citizens
inocent = innocent
martlin
Well-Known Member
hmmm, it is a well known phenomenon... when the discussion is going badly, one side will ALWAYS bring Hitler into it
and when you have nothing to counter somebody's argument, there is always the spelling attack
Classy, very classy.
and when you have nothing to counter somebody's argument, there is always the spelling attack
Classy, very classy.
Jim Moriarty
Well-Known Member
hmmm, it is a well known phenomenon... when the discussion is going badly, one side will ALWAYS bring Hitler into it
and when you have nothing to counter somebody's argument, there is always the spelling attack
Classy, very classy.
Godwin's Law.
Mithras
Well-Known Member
Simply to answer my reasonable questions about the method of slaughter of any meat contained in the meat dishes and to answer any further concerns I put to you. I am always polite and reasonable, but along with many other people with an independent brain, I do know how to question. The fact that you are a little worried about dealing with such questions/possible complaints means that its going to be quite effective.
Writing to large companies is generally a total waste of time. And my time is extremely valuable and not best used in this way. I have no intention of not flying BA, unless a viable alternative is available, but I pay a little extra to fly with them and I do not expect to be subjected to halal meals while doing so. If they do introduce them, I will certainly have to ask questions to verify the source of the meat.
Imagine though the prospect of an aeroplane full of fussy eaters, all asking similar questions, going "Bleurgh, I'm not eating THAT!". And it will filter up to management, and those who make the decisions, much more effectively than any amount of letters. As you rightly point out, its hassle that staff such as yourself really don't need to be dealing with.
Can I also just say that I find it really insulting when posters rely on the ignorance of people's knowledge of the slaughter process and use that ignorance to make sweeping broad brush statements that echo that ignorance, apart from the sarcastic tone employed?
eahotson
Well-Known Member
Perfect 11s you were questioning the Guardians agenda, me the Daily mails which has always seemed to me to have an anti immigrant policy.While I do think that most people who are posting on here are genuine when they say that theirs is not a rascist/religious objection, simply a concern for animal welfare, there are one or two for whom I don't think that is quite true.
Jim Moriarty
Well-Known Member
I suspect more than 'one or two', alas.
suzysparkle
Well-Known Member
FYI Mithras, the quote below is not mine. I did answer to it thus I will have quoted it, but it was not my original post. I don't work for BA (did a few years ago though)
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzysparkle
[/B]
As someone who is cabin staff, could you tell me what you expect me to do at 40,000 feet! The only way to complain is before - write to them and tell them what you think and that yuo won't be flying BA. Then they may sort out the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzysparkle
[/B]
As someone who is cabin staff, could you tell me what you expect me to do at 40,000 feet! The only way to complain is before - write to them and tell them what you think and that yuo won't be flying BA. Then they may sort out the problem.
EAST KENT
Well-Known Member
There is never ever any justification in cruelty on economic grounds,the sheep industry in Australia is as guilty as sin on that point..there is no defence.
brighteyes
Pooh-Bah
So the first video I linked is rubbish? My head is about to go bang, too...
I was under the impression that anyone (or thing) having their throat slit had seconds of consciousness (if that) and exsanguination continues until the heart stops beating? The pain, or lack thereof is dependent on the trueness of the blade and skill of the person weilding it.
If this is accurate, the problem then lies with the guaranteed sharpness of the blade for each animal, the skill of the slaughterer and cooperation of the animal, surely? As all are vulnerable to failure or a rating of less than 100% assurance, then it's not good enough for me.
I think I'd like to be on Mithras' flight when she demands to know the exact details of her meal's last moments... or maybe I'll just read about it in the DM!
Alec Swan
...
brighteyes,
firstly, back to your two previous vids. A clever way of making your point, and on the face of it, difficult to argue with, except that I'm going to try!
To that end, and secondly, I see that you couldn't bring yourself to watch your second offering. You should. It wasn't that bad, and I've witnessed far worse. In it you will see that sheep have been hogged, by tying their legs together, laid in a row, over a drain, and then they've had their throats cut. The man doing the work was reasonably skilled, and in the event that there was no "system" in place, then it seemed quite reasonable, to me. Death was very quickly achieved.
When I've had rams vasectomised, to be used as teasers, then we always tie their legs. It's safer for them, and the vet! Most would consider that to be acceptable. If we prevent an animal from struggling, be it for an operation, or its slaughter, then that has to be the most humane way of doing things.
With the odd possible exception, I really don't believe that animals have any concept of death. The horse, for instance, which will not allow a vet with a needle, within ten yards, will stand quietly whilst a gun is put to its head.
In your second vid, a man kicked a sheep in the face. If you'd asked him why he'd done it, he probably wouldn't have an answer. It was pointless, and it achieved nothing. Generally speaking, I think, that most men, of what ever denomination, have families to go home to, and just as the rest of us, the sooner we reach the end of our working day, the better! Pointless violence, directed at the animal to be killed, would be considered by most, to be a waist of both time and energy.
Alec.
firstly, back to your two previous vids. A clever way of making your point, and on the face of it, difficult to argue with, except that I'm going to try!
To that end, and secondly, I see that you couldn't bring yourself to watch your second offering. You should. It wasn't that bad, and I've witnessed far worse. In it you will see that sheep have been hogged, by tying their legs together, laid in a row, over a drain, and then they've had their throats cut. The man doing the work was reasonably skilled, and in the event that there was no "system" in place, then it seemed quite reasonable, to me. Death was very quickly achieved.
When I've had rams vasectomised, to be used as teasers, then we always tie their legs. It's safer for them, and the vet! Most would consider that to be acceptable. If we prevent an animal from struggling, be it for an operation, or its slaughter, then that has to be the most humane way of doing things.
With the odd possible exception, I really don't believe that animals have any concept of death. The horse, for instance, which will not allow a vet with a needle, within ten yards, will stand quietly whilst a gun is put to its head.
In your second vid, a man kicked a sheep in the face. If you'd asked him why he'd done it, he probably wouldn't have an answer. It was pointless, and it achieved nothing. Generally speaking, I think, that most men, of what ever denomination, have families to go home to, and just as the rest of us, the sooner we reach the end of our working day, the better! Pointless violence, directed at the animal to be killed, would be considered by most, to be a waist of both time and energy.
Alec.
jaypeebee
Well-Known Member
Some of this thread makes very uncomfortable reading. If anyone as a human being cannot see how racist, ignorant and narrow minded some comments are then it is a waste of time trying to offer a different view point. Puppy I give you thanks.
Saucisson
Well-Known Member
The first video cheered me up to be honest - hope it is like that!
As for the second, well, there's plenty of horrible video footage of non-Halal slaughter in this country that's down to some mindless idiot. It didn't seem to have anything to do with the transportation. I'm sure that many Muslims would also find this behaviour distasteful.
As for the second, well, there's plenty of horrible video footage of non-Halal slaughter in this country that's down to some mindless idiot. It didn't seem to have anything to do with the transportation. I'm sure that many Muslims would also find this behaviour distasteful.
nativetyponies
Well-Known Member
racism?..maybe..
a muslim having a pop at the jews...
http://www.albalagh.net/halal/kosher_meat.shtml
a muslim having a pop at the jews...
http://www.albalagh.net/halal/kosher_meat.shtml
brighteyes
Pooh-Bah
Alec
I posted the second vid as a random - it just looked like it might not be so nice as the first, which I did watch!
I'm thinking that apart from stating the obvious connection with Halal slaughter and the dim view I take of the process, I haven't gone racist.
Can anyone tell me why, if it's so kind and quick, that we don't have our pets PTS this way?
I posted the second vid as a random - it just looked like it might not be so nice as the first, which I did watch!
I'm thinking that apart from stating the obvious connection with Halal slaughter and the dim view I take of the process, I haven't gone racist.
Can anyone tell me why, if it's so kind and quick, that we don't have our pets PTS this way?
AJ & Kiz
Well-Known Member
Sorry if this annoys anyone but I tend to agree with all the people that are saying if u don't like it be a veggie!! At the end of the day the poor animals are gonna get killed no matter what once they are dead that's it.. Yes I'm a veggie because I believe that if u can't kill it and skin it urself then u shouldn't be eating it! x
YorksG
Over the hill and far awa
If I was going to kill my own meat, I would do it in the most humane way available to me at the time. I am sure that Halal and Kosher both started out as that, however methods have improved over time, it is unfortunate that the religeous leaders have insisted that the ritual methods of slaughter have remained. I do not see that objecting to eating halal or kosher meat equates to racism, or that it should lead to one eating no meat. If there are standards of slaughter set down by statute, then they should be adhered to by everyone, or perhaps those who insist on meat being slaughtered in a less humane manner, for their beliefs, then they could decline to eat meat.
Any law which allows different levels of adherence is an innately bad law IMO. Or would people consider it would be allowable for an employer to refuse to employ women or gay people on religeous grounds?
Any law which allows different levels of adherence is an innately bad law IMO. Or would people consider it would be allowable for an employer to refuse to employ women or gay people on religeous grounds?
Alec Swan
...
Without question, valid points yorksG. I'm rapidly reaching the stage, where I think, that with the odd exception perhaps, then everyone's views are legitimate, even though this thread has split into two, more or less parallel arguments, one dealing with the ethics of slaughter, and the other arguing about the rights and wrongs of how we treat our fellow man.
Is there anybody on here who's open minded enough to have their view changed? Probably not, is the answer, and if I wont then, why should anyone else?
Another small whiskey, then I'm off to my bed!
Alec.
perfect11s
Well-Known Member
I strongly agree that everyone's intitled to there view as long as it is their view!!! and not what they think they are suposed to think... and can weigh the aguments on both sides and put a point forward sadly there are a more than a few who dont seem to be able think for themselves dont offer a counter argument and just shout down other opinions...
eahotson
Well-Known Member
Actually I have or am in the process of, changing my mind.I still think that Halal/Kosher is as good as it gets when there was/is no stun gun etc. available but where there is I think it should be used.So long as the animal is brain dead I don't supose it much matters what happens next.Funnily enough, it would seem that in the western world at least THE MAJORITY of Halal is stunned first, its going to be the Kosher crowd that will be hardest to convince.I do think that the Halal/Kosher rules were put into place as a humane solution to animal slaughter but times have moved on and better ways are now available.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
P.S These are my views and not some form of political correctness.All the views I have expressed on this post have been my own.
gekko
Well-Known Member
Why don't we use exanguination to put down our pets? Cos it's messy and upsets delicate petals like yourself... same reason some bunny huggers will protest shooting a horse instead of the green dream (which in my very experienced opinion is slower and has much more potential for suffering!)
I personally HAVE used exanguination to put down animals, and was infact trained to put down horses via internal exanguination via rectum in "visible" public situations where shooting was not possible and drugs were unavailable in a timely manner.... ANY quick death is prefferable to a slow and painful one.
I personally HAVE used exanguination to put down animals, and was infact trained to put down horses via internal exanguination via rectum in "visible" public situations where shooting was not possible and drugs were unavailable in a timely manner.... ANY quick death is prefferable to a slow and painful one.
martlin
Well-Known Member
Gekko,
as much as your argument has a lot of valid points, you come across as very angry and extremely patronising, you assume that other posters have no experience, knowledge or sense.
Where in fact, believing a lovely piece of government propaganda and dismissing opposing pictures of a practice shows IMO a certain degree of naivety on your part.
I have been ever so slightly offended by your posts, even though they have not been directed at me personally.
I don't like the Halal slaughter, I like Kosher even less, therefore make my choice and a) don't eat it and b) ensure none of my livestock are slaughtered that way.
PS. As much as you can ensure animals' welfare in transit, you can't possibly regulate what the buyers will chose as a method of slaughter in their own country - you simply don't have such authority and the only way would be not to sell the livestock to them.
as much as your argument has a lot of valid points, you come across as very angry and extremely patronising, you assume that other posters have no experience, knowledge or sense.
Where in fact, believing a lovely piece of government propaganda and dismissing opposing pictures of a practice shows IMO a certain degree of naivety on your part.
I have been ever so slightly offended by your posts, even though they have not been directed at me personally.
I don't like the Halal slaughter, I like Kosher even less, therefore make my choice and a) don't eat it and b) ensure none of my livestock are slaughtered that way.
PS. As much as you can ensure animals' welfare in transit, you can't possibly regulate what the buyers will chose as a method of slaughter in their own country - you simply don't have such authority and the only way would be not to sell the livestock to them.
Last edited:
jaypeebee
Well-Known Member
Not yet may be, but some are trying hard to improve standards with Brunei taking a stand and trying to lead the field. Rome wasnt conquered in a day and your own methods are not fail sure either. Its something every one has to work for because we have the same wishes that animals do not suffer. Stunning has mostly been accepted for halal killings and it is a step in the right direction.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/596846-gso-failing-to-standardise-halal-meat-production
http://www.halaljournal.com/article/4768/vendors-in-se-asia-have-faith-in-brunei-halal-logo
martlin
Well-Known Member
I never said they were.
ucmeicu
Well-Known Member
Muslim issues are not race issues... it is a religion
Heres a video of halal and western slaughter methods.
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQOKQ__3vQw
The Koran/Quran... Mohamed wants all the Jews dead and the hate preachers say they respect the Nazis for all they did to the Jews. Having watched numerous videos of christians being burnt alive all over the world its obvious christians are suffering the same fate now.
Lets also not forget that all you women posting on here would have no rights whatsoever, not even be allowed out with a man on your own unless its your husband, you'd be stoned to death.
If you think there is no muslim threat to this country just remember demographics
Demographics when one group reproduces in greater numbers than another group over years they outpopulate the population that in turn increases voting power they then become entitled to a greater proportion of resources housing schooling healthcare education employment the increase in voting numbers will allow them to v...ote in their councillors their politicians local and national to pressure for their schools their places of worship their laws
Nearly 100 sharia courts already in this country. Muslim councils, muslim police.
.
Dar al-Islam and dar al-harb: the House of Islam and the House of War
The following is one chapter of Islam 101:
The violent injunctions of the Quran and the violent precedents set by Muhammad set the tone for the Islamic view of politics and of world history. Islamic scholarship divides the world into two spheres of influence, the House of Islam (dar al-Islam) and the House of War (dar al-harb).
Islam means submission, and so the House of Islam includes those nations that have submitted to Islamic rule, which is to say those nations ruled by Sharia law. The rest of the world, which has not accepted Sharia law and so is not in a state of submission, exists in a state of rebellion or war with the will of Allah.
It is incumbent on dar al-Islam to make war upon dar al-harb until such time that all nations submit to the will of Allah and accept Sharia law. Islam's message to the non-Muslim world is the same now as it was in the time of Muhammad and throughout history: submit or be conquered.
Heres a video of halal and western slaughter methods.
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQOKQ__3vQw
The Koran/Quran... Mohamed wants all the Jews dead and the hate preachers say they respect the Nazis for all they did to the Jews. Having watched numerous videos of christians being burnt alive all over the world its obvious christians are suffering the same fate now.
Lets also not forget that all you women posting on here would have no rights whatsoever, not even be allowed out with a man on your own unless its your husband, you'd be stoned to death.
If you think there is no muslim threat to this country just remember demographics
Demographics when one group reproduces in greater numbers than another group over years they outpopulate the population that in turn increases voting power they then become entitled to a greater proportion of resources housing schooling healthcare education employment the increase in voting numbers will allow them to v...ote in their councillors their politicians local and national to pressure for their schools their places of worship their laws
Nearly 100 sharia courts already in this country. Muslim councils, muslim police.
.
Dar al-Islam and dar al-harb: the House of Islam and the House of War
The following is one chapter of Islam 101:
The violent injunctions of the Quran and the violent precedents set by Muhammad set the tone for the Islamic view of politics and of world history. Islamic scholarship divides the world into two spheres of influence, the House of Islam (dar al-Islam) and the House of War (dar al-harb).
Islam means submission, and so the House of Islam includes those nations that have submitted to Islamic rule, which is to say those nations ruled by Sharia law. The rest of the world, which has not accepted Sharia law and so is not in a state of submission, exists in a state of rebellion or war with the will of Allah.
It is incumbent on dar al-Islam to make war upon dar al-harb until such time that all nations submit to the will of Allah and accept Sharia law. Islam's message to the non-Muslim world is the same now as it was in the time of Muhammad and throughout history: submit or be conquered.
EAST KENT
Well-Known Member
Gekko is just a typical resident from Down Under..extremely prickley about any possible criticism regarding their country`s less humane attitude to farm animal welfare than us "bunny huggers" care to tolerate. Ask him about "crutching"..another extreme farming practice ,totally unacceptable to us here..Dare You!
One of my weird theories is that maybe we go into re-incarnation as the species we were nastiest to..in which case Gekko you will be a merino in the "paddocks" And possibly get lucky and go on a cruise even.
One of my weird theories is that maybe we go into re-incarnation as the species we were nastiest to..in which case Gekko you will be a merino in the "paddocks"
And possibly get lucky and go on a cruise even.