Baby horse had a strop... Did I do right?

[Cortez]

What you've described isn't aggressive? :/

Striking with the front leg isn't aggressive? Hello? I'd have given him a right good whack: no horse is going to kick (with whichever end) and not get told what for in my yard.

 

[mandwhy]

Of course they should be able to stand still in a field when being led, its hardly taxing! I would have reacted in a similar way OP although I don't go for join up per se, just a couple of in hand exercises.

 

[HBM1]

Striking with the front leg isn't aggressive? Hello? I'd have given him a right good whack: no horse is going to kick (with whichever end) and not get told what for in my yard.

That wasn't what was first described though. That came later, after budsmum had commented. Mine have never purposely tried to kick me, but have, when younger, pawed the ground near me. They do get a telling off, even an unintentional bop with a hoof can hurt... usually I raise my voice (I don't usually, so when I do they know they're in trouble)..that is usually enough. It isn't a behaviour that should be allowed to continue, true.

However, sorry, but I stand by the fact that he had already stood for a bath - some people do a lot with their babies, so all of that isn't too much by 2 1/2 - some don't, so it could be a big ask - we don't actually know in this case what the youngster is used to.

 

[muckypony]

Sorry, call me stupid, but I expect my yearlings to stand without legs going everywhere. Whether its in a field, on the road, outside the stable... Those are simple manners. And I certainly wouldn't put up with any horse, baby or not, peeing off after being told to stand!

Pawing/scooping or whatever might not be meant in an aggressive way, but with 400kg+ behind it, it can hurt. My little shettie does it sometimes and if he catches you in the wrong place, it really hurts! Nasty or not, impatient behaviour should be stamped out early on.

I would have done the same OP, minus the join up though I think. You're boos in the stable, field, anywhere!

 

[LollyDolly]

I don't think that most people here have a problem with her neccesarily asking him to stand in a field, more the fact that he was just bathed which means that he'd been stood still for goodness knows how long before actually going into the field.
I would expect (if I had one!) a 2.5 year old to stand reasonably still for a bath, I would also expect them to stand still in a field at the end of a lead rope, however I wouldn't expect them to do it all combined in one day, I think that it's just too much waiting around for a baby.

As for the pawing, sadly my horse is a 'pawer' and I hate it, it's not an aggressive behavior with him, more a way of conveying impatience and protesting that he is bored! However although it's not aggressive it still needs to be reprimanded as it's incredibly annoying if nothing else!!

 

[Spring Feather]

Jeez some people have very low expectations of their youngsters I'd expect my foals to do what the OP asked! My 2.5 year olds (who are not baby horses), absolutely, without question should be doing what I ask of them; and no striking out, ever, from any age of horse. I actually can't ever imagine ANY of my 2 year olds to behave in this manner.

Oh and I wouldn't be farting around with taking the youngster to the school to do join up or anything other than expecting them to behave with what it was that I intended doing in the first place. No idea what message you are trying to get over there tbh.

 

[HBM1]

None of mine have ever behaved in that way and all are incredibly well behaved. I think all we were trying to say is that they are not robots..it was incredibly hot here yesterday and if he is not usually badly behaved - and it sounds as though he isn't- then that may be why he behaved as he did. Again..it was not clear in the original post that he was trying to kick his owner..of course that is not acceptable.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Cortez and Spring nailed it on one. And unless the headcollar had barbed wire on it I have no idea what the problem was.

Terri

 

[guido16]

Agree 100% with spring feather here.

My youngsters (1 to 3 year old) were expected to show in hand at county shows and futurity events.

Bathed, plaited, travel, shown, travel and home. And they certainly had to stand still during it.

To ask a rising 3 year old to behave for a bath and walk into a field is hardly taxing.

Manners are manners and horses need to learn from an early age that ******ing off whilst being led is NOT good manners.

 

[Shantara]

Cortez and Spring nailed it on one. And unless the headcollar had barbed wire on it I have no idea what the problem was.

Terri

Yes!
We had a rather tricky youngster on the yard (before he was sold). He was big and he knew it! A growl, a yank, a smack...whatever would stop him doing what he was doing! He once reared up full height at someone and got a kick in the chest. Never did that again! Had they not told him who's boss, he wouldn't have sold and would be a very dangerous young horse.

 

[Gypley]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll take on board all the comments and suggestions and will leave out the join up next time and just do a few minuets of in hand work.
I have to agree with others though that I don't think what I asked was too much. He wasn't made to stand still in the field, he was allowed to graze. Although I call him my baby horse, I defiantly try not to treat him like a baby and expect him to behave as any of my other horses would in that situation.

 

[Shantara]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll take on board all the comments and suggestions and will leave out the join up next time and just do a few minuets of in hand work.
I have to agree with others though that I don't think what I asked was too much. He wasn't made to stand still in the field, he was allowed to graze. Although I call him my baby horse, I defiantly try not to treat him like a baby and expect him to behave as any of my other horses would in that situation.

You didn't expect too much at all! I think training starts from day 1. I'm sure you'll get there with him Sounds like you're doing the right thing though!

 

[Alyth]

With youngsters especially you need to be able to concentrate on them, not trust them to graze quietly while you are chatting and not concentrating on the horse....a bit like kids, they can get into trouble in a nano moment!! Also you need to be calm, not angry or emotional!! That is really hard!! So you need to be at the top of your game not racing to catch up and punish or get even or even assert your authority!! You need to be able to do less sooner rather than more later....you are developing what we all hope will be a great riding horse, and what you put in now is what you will sow later!!! So in this particular case imo you should have turned the horse out before going and chatting to your friend, however you didn't, so you did what you thought was the right thing and it didn't turn out too bad, so don't beat yourself up! Just think next time before making any assumptions!!! 2 1/2 is like a young teenager - they are still learning what they can and can't do, testing the boundaries.....but the boundaries need to be appropriate!! Good luck!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Scooping as you have described it, "pawing with his front foot", does not sound as though he was "striking out" - it sounds like he was bored. He had stood for a bath, which was good enough I think for a horse of that age (you don't say how big he is, but I know when my big boy was this age last year that was all I could have expected out of him). To ask him to then stand in a field as well, was probably just too much for him baby brain wise.

At least you didn't beat him, but I am not sure what he will have learned by having a session of "join up" in the school. Try not to put him into situations whereby he can fail again, ie don't expect him to stand around, especially as it was so freakin hot today, beyond his boredom threshold. You don't want him to associate having a bath as a precursor to long periods of boredom and a negative ending?

I'm with you

I don't have low expectations of my youngsters, my expectations of them are based on what they've done previously. Since most of mine have come either semi feral off the moors or having been kept in a group of colts until they are 3, my expectations are based on that.

 

[ShadowFlame]

Actually cannot believe that some people think leading a 2yro into a field and not immediately letting it go, somehow makes it ok for the horse to strike out at you with legs going everywhere?

Agreed. Grazing in hand after a bath is hardly a big ask.

Of course youngsters will try it on, but surely that's an opportunity to "nip in the bud"?

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

Agreed. Grazing in hand after a bath is hardly a big ask.

Of course youngsters will try it on, but surely that's an opportunity to "nip in the bud"?

Agree. Much kinder to say 'no' gently at this age (which is hardly a baby) than to have to deal with a badly behaved bigger older horse.

OP wasn't asking the horse to do anything other than eat grass and not muck about. At that age horse is quite capable even after a bath of doing a few minutes of that.

 

[Queenbee]

The yanking on the headcollar I would , in hindsight have never done. It was a spur of the moment thing that I wouldn't normally have done.
My personal thoughts are that anywhere I walk, with him on the other end of the lead rope , I expect him to be reasonably sensible and act with respect towards me. Wether we are walking through his field, standing for the farrier or strolling down the road.
I do expect on occasion for him to test me, which I feel I dealt with in my own way, that works for me.
But I won't deliberately avoid a situation (within reason) just because he's a baby. And I felt that strolling into a field to quietly dry off was not too much of a big ask considering he had done it on numerous times.

I don't think you did anything majorly wrong, however with hindsight I would say I would not be asking a horse to stand still in the field he plays in, not at that age. Babies like to play, and they play in their field. You say that you will not deliberately avoid a situation (within reason) my personal approach would be to not allow a situation to inflame into habit or issue, in my personal opinion that can be far more dangerous.

Say for example I had walked my boy into the field and got this response, I would have walked him out of the field, taken him in hand and got a crop (not for use but as a visible back up) I would then have done a lot of repetative in hand walking, backing up and standing practice (till it became boring) with lots of praise. I would then have walked back into the field and if I felt any tension on the end of the rope I would have walked out and repeated the ground work. On walking into the field I would only expect a couple of steps in, stand for a second nicely and then I would have patted, praised and released. I would far rather it not be a battle of wills and an argument they focus on... that way they forget it. Following that, I would actually focus on something else for a week, and try again (more ground work followed by a couple more steps into the field before releasing) that way I would hope it would have reverted back to a non-event.

Im not saying that a horse shouldn't be reprimanded (and fwiw in that moment I would have and see no problem in a couple of tugs on a leadrope to reprimand and gain focus). I am saying that I would pick my battles more carefully, and prioritising my safety and success. Trying to hold onto/reprimand and win a battle against a horse in a headcollar on the end of a short leadrope in a large field is not an example of this. The very best approach is to set the horse up to succeed, giving it every opportunity to not mess up in the first place, but ensuring that physically and environmentally you are prepared if he doesnt.

It is my personal opinion that if you make this a 'non-issue' 9/10 horses at this age will grow out of it, and really, how important is it that your horse learns to stand in the middle of his field at the end of a leadrope? Ben was always a saint in other fields and a git in his own... now he is four and he is good as gold in his own. We all have different approaches and expectations but the key thing is reading the situation and picking our battles appropriately.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Striking with the front leg isn't aggressive? Hello? I'd have given him a right good whack: no horse is going to kick (with whichever end) and not get told what for in my yard.

Aye just exactly. For gods sake if I want my horse to stand still at any age, I'd expect it to do it without having a tantrum. I wouldn't have done join up personally, I'd have done in hand work to enforce standing still walking calmly etc.

 

[ebyewtree]

Yes, in my opinion, you did the right thing. He perhaps got bored just standing around in the field, and clearly thought he could get away with being naughty after you repremanded him. I see nothing wrong in anything you did, and the join-up was the right idea, and will make him think twice about doing something similar again.
By the same token, you should always be ultra aware of your baby whenever you are with him, loose or on a rein. Keep him aware that you are the herd leader at all times. If on a lead rein he tries to walk forward faster than you, then stop him and back him up a pace or two, and keep doing this until he learns to walk at your pace, is just one example. The more you handle him, the more he will learn to respect you.
Babies are such fun, but like children, they will test the limits occasionally. The trick is to control the antics while still keeping the fun and the interest.

 

[freckles22uk]

Yes you did the right thing, I would of done similar

 

[scarymare]

It's a baby. Why did you put him in that position???

Agree with this - I'd be kicking myself that I'd set him up to fail.

 

[ebyewtree]

Just a short follow up to message just posted. Watch what mum does to her baby when he is naughty in the field. She will do her own version of sending him away just as we do during join up, so I do not think that a short session of join-up would have done him the slightest harm at all. Agree with all the other postings, that the more you handle him, the better he will be.

 

[_MizElz_]

This is not in direct response to any single person, but...

Having read through a lot of the replies here, all I can say is that I now understand why there are so many badly behaved adult horses out there! If people are reticent to discipline or lay down boundaries with a 2 and a half year old (or younger) horse, how on earth can you expect them to suddenly develop proper manners in their adulthood? I'm all for letting youngsters have freedom to mature into themselves, but that does not mean you let them walk all over you. I don't think the OP did anything wrong - even if you do not intend to work your horse in its field, I still think you need to establish the fact that the field is not always a place where they can just buzz off and kick their heels at you. You have to be safe, and I think laying down the ground rules in a humane and firm way is a necessity with any young horse.

 

[Cheiro1]

This is not in direct response to any single person, but...

Having read through a lot of the replies here, all I can say is that I now understand why there are so many badly behaved adult horses out there! If people are reticent to discipline or lay down boundaries with a 2 and a half year old (or younger) horse, how on earth can you expect them to suddenly develop proper manners in their adulthood? I'm all for letting youngsters have freedom to mature into themselves, but that does not mean you let them walk all over you. I don't think the OP did anything wrong - even if you do not intend to work your horse in its field, I still think you need to establish the fact that the field is not always a place where they can just buzz off and kick their heels at you. You have to be safe, and I think laying down the ground rules in a humane and firm way is a necessity with any young horse.

This! I cannot believe some people believe a nearly 3 year old horse should not be reprimanded for throwing itself around! I expect yearlings to stand still!

OP I don't think you did anything wrong, that said I personally would have stayed in the field and done some walk/halt/back up/walk on type work making sure he was properly listening as opposed to taking him out of the field to do join up. That doesn't really solve the field situation.

 

[MissMistletoe]

I would have done what you did, but minus the Join Up.

Just treat it as a training session; he had a junior moment.... you acted...end of really!

You can now forget and move on

 

[Persephone]

He'd just been bathed......he probably wanted a good roll....

This !

 

[Marydoll]

Agree with this.

Actually cannot believe that some people think leading a 2yro into a field and not immediately letting it go, somehow makes it ok for the horse to strike out at you with legs going everywhere?

OP, you were much more polite to your horse that I would have been in the same situation if a youngster had struck out at me and then pi$$ed off when reprimanded.

However, I wouldn't have done join up to make my point clear, just some simple in hand work so he realises I am not another horse to play with or intimidate and if I want us to stand or I want us to walk somewhere we will do so with no fuss, no anger and no tantrums.

^^^^^^ this, start as you mean to go on, as will the horse if you dont nip it in the bud

 

[Goldenstar]

Striking with the front leg isn't aggressive? Hello? I'd have given him a right good whack: no horse is going to kick (with whichever end) and not get told what for in my yard.

I agree with this striking out at humans should never be tolerated it's not apporiate behaviour they need to learn this from babies .

 

[fburton]

I didn't want him to think he had 'won' by taking him straight back onto the yard so I walked him back over to friend. En route he turned to scoop me again and I'd had enough! It was downright rude! We about turned and I took him straight into the school, where we did join up to reinstate my position as 'boss' . Did I do the right thing? And is this to be expected from a horse of his age? I'm learning on the job here as I've never had a youngster, but I will NOT be intimidated by my own horse.

I find it is more effective to concentrate on modifying specific behaviours (by rewarding wanted ones and punishing or ignoring unwanted ones) than trying to impress the horse with 'boss' impressions in the hope that the supposedly instilled attitude will make the unwanted behaviours go away, just like that. I don't think you did wrong per se, but you may find yourself needing to address rude behaviour again in the future. In general, I don't think it's helpful to think in terms of you or the horse 'winning' over each other. Sorry to be blunt in expressing this opinion - it is intended constructively.

 

[fburton]

Not sure what you men by scooping either but IMO you did the right thing by restablishing your boundaries.

The question is: does a single session of join up do this, and then the horse knows exactly where the boundary between what you consider acceptable and what you don't lies? Or do you still need to teach the horse that? I rather think the latter!