Back and joints. Older horse. Video and x-rays.

Shelest

Shelest

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Hello,

My name is Alesya, I live in Kiev, Ukraine.
I the owner of the senior horse (the gelding of 18 years). Very much I need veterinary council about a back and joints. The Ukrainian veterinary surgeons unfortunately aren't qualified enough.
2.5 years, I know this horse. All the while, his back legs work serfdom.
3.5 months ago, he limped after the jump to the right hind leg. He became my own.
The vet did the blockade of analgesic and determined that the cause of lameness right rear hock. X-ray done. Diagnosis - Arthritis.
We did a lot of procedures aimed at treatment of arthritis. Steroid anti-inflammatory agent in the joint, homeopathy, Adequan, not steroid anti-inflammatory drugs taken orally.The result - a stable state, without a pronounced limp. But the horse pulls up his hind legs and right strongly. Gait incomprehensible.
Looking at his gait seems that the problem is not in a joint problem in his back.
Invited masseur. He said that it probably bite the sciatic nerve. But after the massage the horse did not become better. On the contrary, it seems more began to pull the injured leg.
This is a step
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2uZ35RUhJM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ4BVbpeHj0

Trot Hard Ground
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA6dGZoYBiw

Trot Right Arena
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEEg0CQtX2o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZd5clqtpsA

Trot Left Arena
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX0X_NVm2Ho
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhKFZKx-XtM

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I really need a dedicated board.
Maybe someone with such experienced. Maybe someone knows where to get online consultation vet.
Thanks in advance!
 
Is there a specialist equine vet hospital you could take him to?

I am rubbish telling where lameness is but it does look like leg to me. If there is back pain, it might be secondary to the problems in the leg. How much painkiller is he getting?

Really hope you can get him sorted, he's a lovely horse.
 
Your horse is showing similar lamenes to my horse who has Sacriliac dyfunction/problem.

I am looking to get a McTimmoney chiropractor out to realign my horse's sacral area/pelvis. Then I will use a physio to massage and give me exercises to build the correct muscle to support the SI joint.

Good luck! :)
 
YasandCrystal said:
I am looking to get a McTimmoney chiropractor out to realign my horse's sacral area/pelvis. Then I will use a physio to massage and give me exercises to build the correct muscle to support the SI joint.
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I'm sorry but any chiro who tells you that they can "realign" your horse's pelvis is talking rubbish. They can manipulate the muscles around the area which may be making it look as though something is wonky, but bones can't be bent or out of place. The amount of force that would be needed to effect a change on the bones of a half tonne animal are immense, and certainly can't be produced by a 10st person.
 
chestnut cob said:
I'm sorry but any chiro who tells you that they can "realign" your horse's pelvis is talking rubbish. They can manipulate the muscles around the area which may be making it look as though something is wonky, but bones can't be bent or out of place. The amount of force that would be needed to effect a change on the bones of a half tonne animal are immense, and certainly can't be produced by a 10st person.
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Agree! It takes 2 people to put my pelvis back so how can one person put a horse's back?
 
Thanks to all who responded!
Just want to apologize for my English, unfortunately I do not really know him well. If possible, please write simple sentences. I struggled trying to understand every word. I'm afraid to miss something important.
chestnut cob, You asked about the possibility to take a horse to a specialized clinic, is not it? Unfortunately, in Ukraine it is not developed. We can to Use the services of private veterinary medicine. Their options are limited.
Perhaps the pain in his leg. I do not know. But I think that somewhere in the thigh, not in hock.
The horse does not take a painkiller. About 5 days we were given NSAIDs in the powder. But it was somewhere a month before the video.
YasandCrystal, I believe in physical education. But with the horses is difficult. It is unfortunate that the horse can not tell where and how he hurts: (
Now, while I do not know what to do I started doing it with a human massage ointment. I'm trying to teach him how to make bows. Bend the horse in hand.
 
chestnut cob said:
I'm sorry but any chiro who tells you that they can "realign" your horse's pelvis is talking rubbish. They can manipulate the muscles around the area which may be making it look as though something is wonky, but bones can't be bent or out of place. The amount of force that would be needed to effect a change on the bones of a half tonne animal are immense, and certainly can't be produced by a 10st person.
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When these pratctitioners quote #realignment# I reckon they mean movement via stretching the cramped and spasmed muscles. So deep muscle stretching. They must be affecting something as it works for so many back problems with horses, but I agree the horses structure is massive and would be hard to move things about.
 
How frustrating for you, he is a lovely horse and he is lucky to have you to care for him.
It sounds as though the vets in Ukraine have done all they are able to with their level of expertise, it sounds as though they have done what would have been done here in the UK though to a point.
Is the horse ok when you give him NSAIDs? Perhaps you might have to consider maintaining him on a low dose to keep him sound and comfortable. It is not ideal even for an 18 year old horse to do this but if you have no other options it may mean he is happy and you can still work him.
Stretching him will help, as this will help any horse, there are some good books you can get to help with this too:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stretch-Exe...8606/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1309955986&sr=8-1

Good luck with your horse. :)
 
seoirse said:
How frustrating for you, he is a lovely horse and he is lucky to have you to care for him.
It sounds as though the vets in Ukraine have done all they are able to with their level of expertise, it sounds as though they have done what would have been done here in the UK though to a point.
Is the horse ok when you give him NSAIDs? Perhaps you might have to consider maintaining him on a low dose to keep him sound and comfortable. It is not ideal even for an 18 year old horse to do this but if you have no other options it may mean he is happy and you can still work him.
Stretching him will help, as this will help any horse, there are some good books you can get to help with this too:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stretch-Exe...8606/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1309955986&sr=8-1

Good luck with your horse. :)
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I do agree with this but before starting a stretching programme, I think I would want to make sure there is nothing going on which could be aggravated by it. You're right though, I don't think UK vets would have done much more.

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with giving an 18yo a daily dose of NSAIDS. Again, I would want to know *why* I was giving a painkiller/ anti-inflammatory first though, so as not to mask anything (else).

I guess you could think about medicating the hock again, see if helps. My big horse has hock spavins and it took a long time to get him right after his first treatment - his back (lumbar, SI mainly) was so sore from compensating for the hock pain that it took several sessions with a good physio to sort him out, plus the sort of stretching and exercise plan you mention above.
 
chestnut cob said:
I do agree with this but before starting a stretching programme, I think I would want to make sure there is nothing going on which could be aggravated by it. You're right though, I don't think UK vets would have done much more.

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with giving an 18yo a daily dose of NSAIDS. Again, I would want to know *why* I was giving a painkiller/ anti-inflammatory first though, so as not to mask anything (else).

I guess you could think about medicating the hock again, see if helps. My big horse has hock spavins and it took a long time to get him right after his first treatment - his back (lumbar, SI mainly) was so sore from compensating for the hock pain that it took several sessions with a good physio to sort him out, plus the sort of stretching and exercise plan you mention above.
Click to expand...

The only thing I think my vet might have done as well is referred to an approved physiotherapist, which doesn't sound like an option here sadly.
But yes, I agree, it would be nice to know, if the NSAIDs worked, exactly what they were working on so nothing was being masked.

We are very lucky here in the UK to have access to so many fantastic equine medical experts!
 
Thanks for the link to the book! I already have a book of American "Equine fitness". Unfortunately I bought it just before the problems with my horse. Even did not have time to read. Perhaps it is time to turn to these books.
Unfortunately, our vets do not recognize these methods. So the only option is to try gently on my horse. How he will react.
NSAID use fear. Particularly long. Many side effects. For example gastritis or gastric ulcer. When used NSAIDs apparent improvement was not. So do not apply.
How do you treat a back massage ointments for arthritis / rheumatism?
How do you feel about dressing with chondroitin and glucosamine?
Should I try on my horse?
Thanks in advance!
 
OK, so the NSAIDs didn't make much difference then, which means it is more likely to be mechanical than just pain related, though its probably a bit of both. The stretches may help, though it will take some time before you are likely to see if it makes an difference. You really need to get a good physiotherapist to see him if you are able to?
I am not sure about ointments for massage, but you can get several machines for massage, some are very expensive and I have not used them but I know people who have with different results, some very good, some no difference at all.
http://www.equilibriumproducts.com/equilibrium_therapy/massage_therapy_massage_pad/

or maybe a TENS machine, lots of people swear by these for back/muscle problems and they are not expensive:
http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_7901928_use-tens-machine-horses.html

I feed chondroitin and glucosamine to my old (25 years) pony, I started to give it to her about 5 years ago when she started to show signs of stiffening up, it has made a dramatic difference, though some people find it makes no difference. I also feed it to my younger horse as advised by my vet as he suffered a knee injury which will make him more likely to develop arthritis in the future.

Unfortunately though without the help of a muscluloskeletal expert to come and look at your horse you have to just try things and see what works/help him. If you can find a good physiotherapist though I would highly reccommend getting them to take a look.
Good luck.
 
Tell me please, is there any side effects from prolonged use of dressings (chondroitin, glucosamine)? What do you use?
If it is possible to show the horse a good specialist, I will definitely take advantage of it!
Thank you for answers and for the links!
 
Hi, no I don’t believe there are any side effects from prolonged use of chondroitin and glucosamine. It is standard practise in the UK to feed it long term and my 12 year old horse will have it for the rest of his life and our 25 year old horse has been having it for over 5 years now.
The two I use are:
http://www.feedmark.com/Product.asp?Product=ExtraFlex+HA

http://www.naf-uk.com/products/detail.php?id=1

I don’t know if you can get these sent to Ukraine?

Here are some others you could see if they will deliver to you:
http://www.equine-america.co.uk/cortaflex-for-healthy-joints.php

http://www.nutrecare.co.uk/Category-164/Horse-Joint-Supplements

:)
 
Of the suggested you find only in Ukraine Cortaflex.
What do you think is better liquid or powder? And how long do I have to give the horse to see improved? I understand that this is very individual, but on average how long?
 
Great you can get cortaflex there. It is supposed to be the best one. Some people say liquid is absorbed quicker and better so I would go for that, to start with at least, to get it into his system as fast as possible.

As for how long you will see a difference, I am not sure, but in my old horse, overnight she was much better, we could not believe the difference in her, but I think that is an exceptional case. I would say 2 weeks, perhaps a month on average before you see a difference, and I don't know how many cases it does make a difference to.

I do hope it makes a difference to your horse. My vet certainly thinks that all horses that are at risk of, or already suffering from joint damage should be on a supplement, and its helped our old horse and I hope it will protect our younger horse for the future.
 
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