back feet - Issues!!

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Jezzabell

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Having had my mare 3 weeks she is coming on leaps and bounds now :)

just one issue - her back feet

ive had the farrier check them (hard task) he cannot find any problems
She is gettin worse..to the point where i cant run my hand down her leg without a very fast hard cow kick!!
Ive tried being a meany i.e kicking her back when she kicks me (didnt work)
Patience - the more i try the faster the kicks get!!
i have no idea what to try next?
 
Sorry my bad grammer..

He did have trouble (major) but he fought with her literally had he squished to the wall (not how i want it to be of course)

I don't know what to do next..
 
I's use advance and retreat (pressure and release) for this I think but of course you need to get your timing right and stay safe. This is an approach where you begin by putting a small amount of pressure on (this can be in any way, moving closer or even a touch) and as soon as there is the desired or no negative reaction release that pressure immediately. Progress in this way very slowly using a hand/arm extension (false hand aka covered stick, plastic tube, feather duster etc.) so you can keep out of the kick zone (wear a hat and gloves too). The arm extension enables you to keep the 'pressure' on until the horse calms and then removing the 'pressure' is the signal that tells the horse 'yes, that's what I'm asking for' so getting your timing right is important to teach what you want, it's easy to inadvertantly to teach more kicking if your timing is out. Do look into how to keep safe as it's most important and get clear what you are doing.
Details of this technique are in this book by Sarah Weston 'No fear, no force.' http://www.logicalhorsemanship.co.uk/publications.html
It may be advisable to have a handler hold the horse as you work. By the way, hitting/kicking back will only make your horse cross, confused and as you found probably want to kick you more.

Hope that's some help. It's really worth learning about advance and retreat as it's very useful to adapt for all sorts of training/learning.
 
Jezzabell said:
Sorry my bad grammer..

He did have trouble (major) but he fought with her literally had he squished to the wall (not how i want it to be of course)

I don't know what to do next..
Click to expand...

You said she is getting worse and this may be part of the problem.....

I taught my rescue to pick up her feet using clicker training. Previous owners had roped and thrown her, which of course caused all sorts of problems.

Then a farrier came along and smacked her in the face (one that is sometimes recommended on this forum!) which set her right back. She still remembers the sound of his voice to this day and it stresses her right out.

But the clicker training worked its magic and she is now fine.

However her original issues with her hinds from way back stemmed from PAIN. She had muscle pain from a metabolic disorder which was never diagnosed and this made it very hard for her to pick up her hinds.

So give your horse the benefit of the doubt, assume she is hurting, only ask for very small things and reward her for even the slightest 'give'.
 
LucyPriory said:
Then a farrier came along and smacked her in the face (one that is sometimes recommended on this forum!)
Click to expand...
This makes me so cross - there is no need ever for a farrier to smack a horse in the face. Unfortunately, we have one around this way that has a reputation for that kind of thing.

However her original issues with her hinds from way back stemmed from PAIN. She had muscle pain from a metabolic disorder which was never diagnosed and this made it very hard for her to pick up her hinds.
Click to expand...

Ditto this - some horses may have a condition called 'shivers' or 'EPSM' that makes it uncomfortable for them to hold their hind feet up for the farrier. You need to work out exactly WHY your mare is objecting - is it nervousness or pain/discomfort? Obviously, you need to pinpoint the cause to work out the best course of action.

If she is easy to handle in most respects and good with her front feet, then I would give strong consideration to the fact that she might have a shiver or EPSM. There are many things that can help this - a low sugar/low starch diet, plentiful exercise/turnout, care taken in exactly what position the leg is lifted in, sometimes positioning horse against a wall for support etc.
 
Thanks..

Im going to try the sponge on a stick etc.. see how the goes.

In all honesty my farrier was quite patient with her, after about 30mins of trying i think it became his only option..

what is the clicker training? :confused:

Thanks guys
 
i have to agree with some people what have said on here . rule out any underlining problems to the possible reason for why she is kicking out , so back check, hips , and any problems such as shivers that has also be menshioned . if there is no problems then try with a lead rope , or a broom stick try to encorage her to pick her legs up with the help of a lead rope or broom stick you are at a safe distance so you getting kicked is near inpossible , when she does pick up nicely reward her and just start off with little bits do expect to much to soon even if she just picks it up then put it down reward , carry on till you can replace the aids with human contact but as i say dont expect to much to soon
 
http://www.clickertraining.com/horsetraining

It's a technique using positive reinforcement (treats in this case) along with a marker (click) to shape behaviour. Again timing is an important factor. If you tend towards/prefer using no pressure this may be the way for you.

Mta... of course checking for physical problems/reasons is always a first thing to check. Keeping the hoof low when you can pick it up sometimes helps
 
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What we do is obviously make sure no underlying problem. Then get a long handled soft brush and brush her back legs still she stops reacting. Do this at least twice a day but preferably more. Must admit I do this with them backed up to a wall so if they do lash out they hit the wall. Then get a lead rope and pass this around fetlock and use this to pull leg up. Not too far at first but just get it up and make sure YOU put it down not her. Keep doing this, again, at least twice a day. Then progress to holding leg once you have it up with rope. If you do keep doing this you will find after about a week / 10 days you should be able to get them up. Wear hat !!
 
Good advice from Ditchjumper. My mare also had this problem. The only thing I did differently was to use an old walking stick around the fetlock instead of the leadrope. This was so I could stay at a safe distance having got a kick in the face earlier this year - please be careful.
 
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