Pictures Back feet of a potential buy

[splashgirl45]

i didnt think it was as bad as the ops pic

 

[Tiddlypom]

Horsequest ad ref #204636

 

[ycbm]

i didnt think it was as bad as the ops pic

No it's not but it's definitely there, and on three separate photos, two of them taken at different times weeks apart. And on the advert, the lack of fat makes the shape of the croup very obvious.

Put together with the time it's taken to sell a pretty, good-natured and capable little mare, there's something not right.

 

[tanitabellon]

i found the ad and she is quite a bit fatter in your photo. the side on in the ad doesnt look like she is standing under with her hinds so maybe something has happened in the 5 months that they have had her..

i remember seeing this ad a long time ago and wondering why she hadnt sold as she sounded good..

yes definitely put on weight

 

[tanitabellon]

I can't find the ad, which section did you find it in please? Of course in 5 months she could have been sold and then returned to the dealer, just a possibility.

Ref #: 204636

 

[tanitabellon]

I'm afraid she does. In photo 6, the only side on shot, her cannon bones are not verticle in he hind legs, they are sloping backwards.

Her tuber sacrale -highest point on the bum - are raised and her croup drops away sharply.

Unless what we have seen in the photos is unrepresentative, she looks a shoe-in for either SI injury, PSD or both, one caused by the other.

I suspect she hunted too much in Ireland too young, maybe carrying too much weight for a 14.3 baby. I wouldn't want a five year old to be being advertised as having done 'a lot of hunting'.

I'm so sorry TB, but from the three photos I've seen, I think you'll be wasting your money to vet this horse; shouldn't buy it without a five stage vet from a vet unknown to the seller, and even if it passes, be prepared to find performance issues needing investigation within weeks or months, so please insure her with a good company.

wow, ok, thank you, I don't understand everything you wrote but will be googling it for the next horse, its a shame, she seemed such a cracker

 

[TPO]

If you like her I'd speak to the dealer again and see if you can get to the bottom of why she was roughed off and turned away.

If you are comfortable with the answer given then go back for a second viewing armed with the new info from this thread.

After that if you still want her then brief the vet (not one dealer mentioned) about your specific issues and ask them to pay special attention to that.

I'm not a vet but I dont think the wee mare looks that bad. No horse is perfect! You need one that is fit for purpose and vet will assess the horse in line with your requirements ie different vetting for a hack to that of a 3 day eventer.

The roughing her off is definitely worth investigating as she looks a useful and popular type

 

[tanitabellon]

No it's not but it's definitely there, and on three separate photos, two of them taken at different times weeks apart. And on the advert, the lack of fat makes the shape of the croup very obvious.

Put together with the time it's taken to sell a pretty, good-natured and capable little mare, there's something not right.

You mentioned the slope off her croup, but isnt that more to do with her topline? is that something separate to the leg issue?

 

[tanitabellon]

If you like her I'd speak to the dealer again and see if you can get to the bottom of why she was roughed off and turned away.

If you are comfortable with the answer given then go back for a second viewing armed with the new info from this thread.

After that if you still want her then brief the vet (not one dealer mentioned) about your specific issues and ask them to pay special attention to that.

I'm not a vet but I dont think the wee mare looks that bad. No horse is perfect! You need one that is fit for purpose and vet will assess the horse in line with your requirements ie different vetting for a hack to that of a 3 day eventer.

The roughing her off is definitely worth investigating as she looks a useful and popular type

roughed off? do you mean having her back shoes removed?

 

[TPO]

roughed off? do you mean having her back shoes removed?

Yeah and turned away...guessing that's what has happened when he shoes have been pulled, hooves not maintained and shes put on weight.

 

[ycbm]

You mentioned the slope off her croup, but isnt that more to do with her topline? is that something separate to the leg issue?

No, it's to do with the height of her tuber sacrale, the two points at the very top off her bum, and the angle of the bones that run from there down to the back of her legs. The angles are wrong, which is why she is standing camped under. Her current fatter state is hiding it, but it's still there.

There are horses who don't stand under built with similar angles at the bum and they are reputed to be good jumpers with a 'jumpers bum', but with the camped under stance, and bull nosed hind feet to match, there is more than a suggestion of an SI/PSD issue.

I've looked closely at the videos and they don't show more than a few strides of her in walk side on. In those few frames, I think I can see that she's takes a much longer stride with one hind leg than the other, but only in walk. That is something else you should take a good look at if you view her again.

She is a lovely little mare, but the videos of her on the cross country look stuffy and in the arena look hurried and do nothing to reassure me. If she is sound and passes a five stage vetting, you could do a lot worse.

.

 

[tanitabellon]

yup that makes sense, and so now my question would be why would you do this with a horse you are trying to sell...

 

[ycbm]

Do what?

 

[TPO]

yup that makes sense, and so now my question would be why would you do this with a horse you are trying to sell...

That's what you need to ask the seller. Just phone to make a second viewing (if that's what you want to do and you're still interested in her) and ask if her feet were in that condition and the weight gain was because she was turned away.

Heck seller might just be lax with shoeing regimes and mare put in weight because summer grass is through. There might be no sinister reasons at all 🤷🏼‍♀️

If you do pursue the sale then get 5 stage vet and strangles test

 

[tanitabellon]

No, it's to do with the height of her tuber sacrale, the two points at the very top off her bum, and the angle of the bones that run from there down to the back of her legs. The angles are wrong, which is why she is standing camped under. Her current fatter state is hiding it, but it's still there.

There are horses who don't stand under built with similar angles at the bum and they are reputed to be good jumpers with a 'jumpers bum', but with the camped under stance, and bull nosed hind feet to match, there is more than a suggestion of an SI/PSD issue.

I've looked closely at the videos and they don't show more than a few strides of her in walk side on. In those few frames, I think I can see that she's takes a much longer stride with one hind leg than the other, but only in walk. That is something else you should take a good look at if you view her again.

She is a lovely little mare, but the videos of her on the cross country look stuffy and in the arena look hurried and do nothing to reassure me. If she is sound and passes a five stage vetting, you could do a lot worse.

.

Ok, I thought maybe I noticed something in the video when she is walking on the road and she turns into the lane, there is a bit where you can see her walk past quite close and I wondered about her left back leg, at 4:16 in the first video her placement just seemed a wee bit odd but i wasn't sure.

 

[tanitabellon]

That's what you need to ask the seller. Just phone to make a second viewing (if that's what you want to do and you're still interested in her) and ask if her feet were in that condition and the weight gain was because she was turned away.

Heck seller might just be lax with shoeing regimes and mare put in weight because summer grass is through. There might be no sinister reasons at all 🤷🏼‍♀️

If you do pursue the sale then get 5 stage vet and strangles test

yes, true, will call tomorrow and take it from there and then decide whether to go ahead to next stage of vet check

 

[ycbm]

Ok, I thought maybe I noticed something in the video when she is walking on the road and she turns into the lane, there is a bit where you can see her walk past quite close and I wondered about her left back leg, at 4:16 in the first video her placement just seemed a wee bit odd but i wasn't sure.

You've got it, and it's clear she's taking a much longer stride with the left white leg than the right black one.

 

[tanitabellon]

ok, i see what you mean now

 

[paddy555]

OP, I am afraid you have been given very, very good advice by YCBM on the hind end aspect. Whatever the seller might say the problem is potentially still there. It is not just the feet were unshod, the hind feet were a bit of a giveaway to make you look further. Some of us on here ride barefoot horses and trim them ourselves, that is why one look at the feet raised a question.

Very sad and from both the pics and the videos I can see why you liked her and what a lovely and capable little mare she would be. However the thing that jumped out at her advert was that she had done so much at such a young age. It made her seem a nice, calm very capable horse but at what cost to her body. There is no way I would even consider a horse that had worked so much so young.

The other question is that such a lovely little horse should have been sold very quickly. Why is she still there, or back there, 5 months on? It doesn't make sense. Was she unsound and they turned her out, was she sold and returned. A dealer doesn't sit with such a nice 3k horse and leave it in a field.
It may show a change of owner in the last 5 months on the passport.
If you do go ahead get some insurance if possible. (if she passes the vet)

 

[be positive]

You've got it, and it's clear she's taking a much longer stride with the left white leg than the right black one.

The black leg looks wrong in all paces to me but until I saw the bit of her walking on the road I was unsure if it was an optical illusion or not, that one black leg would drive me mad as it is so eyecatching it may look wrong even in a perfectly sound horse.
I would suspect she failed the vet earlier this year and has been turned away for a rest in the hope she would strengthen up, if you go ahead ensure you are there for the vetting but my instinct would be walk away without wasting money on vetting, there is bound to be some reason she has not sold by now and as you are already unsure it is best to move on.

 

[Red-1]

I agree that when she turns into the lane she is a bit mincey, but can also see other reasons why she may not have sold.

In the February video she is a lot greener than OP describes, not a child's ride at that stage. She is also an awkward height, at 5yo and 14,3 she will likely end up too small for adults and too large for kids.

The other video is April, she looks reasonably fit, so was presumably in work and she also looks more educated which would back up that she was worked Feb to April.

So, most likely, she may indeed have been roughed off after a vetting query, but TBH you have not even asked the dealer about it, so he may well have a full explanation. It could be something like an abscess, who knows without asking? That could also account for the action in the video. I think this horse is small fry for this dealer.

I would worry if your daughter is not a competent rider as the rider is very proficient at making the pony/horse look well.

I googled the phone number and found the full name of the dealer, looked on one dodgy dealer page and didn't see much to worry me.

ETA - If I were looking at this pony I would look at more of the DD pages and ask for opinions on the dealer as I don't know him. I would also be asking questions of the dealer, plus having an equine specialist vet. But, this pony/horse falls into the category where I think she could potentially make someone very happy... Or not, but you won't know without asking the questions and maybe taking a recent video and seeing how she is moving now.

I am not saying the horse is a good buy, or a bad buy, just that I feel it is being discounted from an old video and some non specific photos.

 

[Fiona]

I bought my Connie from a very reputable connie/sports horse dealer in the March, and she had had him for quite a few months prior to that... Perhaps because he was smaller than average at 13.2, or because she was busy with other ponies or didn't have enough riders... The point I'm making is that he had a full vetting, I bought him and he has been perfect, but they don't all sell through a dealer in a few days..

Do your own research OP, both in the information the dealer gives you about the horse, and on your own account in finding out more about him, then if you're satisfied, pay for a good vetting and make sure you're there...

Also make sure horse is fully shod before the vetting.

She could be a very nice little horse.

Fiona

 

[oldie48]

Horses do hang around and fail vettings for a variety of reasons and buyers also mess around and then pull out of a deal. so I second Fiona's opinion, do your research and if you still alike the mare get a good equine vet to do the vetting for you and make sure you are there so you can ask questions and discuss any findings in detail. Good luck

 

[Zero00000]

I found lots about them on DD sites and wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

OP I will message you this dealers previous names so you can search them and make your own mind up.

 

[TPO]

Th thing is, even the dodgiest of dealers sometimes have good horses.

Just go in with your eyes open, ask lots of questions and use a reputable vets (TGM suggested a couple) not associated with the dealer