Back Pain

[dorsetladette]

I posted in 'tack room' a couple of weeks back asking if anyone had used Patrick Gracey (The Horse Shrink). a few people came back to with recommendations of behaviourists more local to me. But, Leo Walker said she would have a full pain work up done. Thinking about this comment this morning, my vet arrived for Jabs and I asked her to take a look at said pony to see what she thought.

As soon as she went near him he tensed up (he is very nervous) and her first words were 'he's in a lot of pain'. But we moved him out of the corner so he didn't feel so threatened and I explained he was very nervous, especially of people he doesn't know. So in the pouring rain we came him few minutes to get to know the vet. Then she had another feel. This time he didn't react as much but there was still quite an extreme reaction to her touching him. So, just to be sure it wasn't still his nerves (and being a welsh in a wet windy field) I asked the vet to check him from his off side as he is more accepting of things being done from the 'wrong side' so to speak. His reactions were less and more of an 'ouch' than an 'OMG your gonna eat me' kind of thing.

He trotted up sound several times. But didn't arch his back as much as the Vet would of liked when running her finger under his tummy. He did arch when she ran her finger down his near side buttock but not his off side. And his reaction suggests he is sorer (more sore) on the off side than the near. Which agree's with him being better to lunge on the right rein than the left. The sore area is located just behind where a saddle would end.

Vet will text me a couple of physio's the surgery recommend when she gets back to the office later. She is absolutely sure this is a muscular issue and a few physio sessions should sort it.

So, pony originally came from a 'free to good home' advert, which with his breeding I don't understand why he would be free. A family member took him on and had him 18 months but couldn't get anywhere with him. He was meant to be a pony for her and kids to ride so felt kids were missing out as no one ever managed to even sit on him. So I decided to take him on, he is a fab field companion for our other cob and has the loveliest personality. He's only 14hh on his tip toes and has the shortest back ever. I'm now wondering if someone has tried to start him under saddle with a saddle that is to long for him.

Anyway this slightly rambling post was mostly to say THANK YOU to Leo Walker for suggesting pain in the first place. Sometimes it takes a fresh set of eyes/different perspective on a situation.

 

[milliepops]

that sounds like a great update, well done come and update again when the physio has been

 

[Leo Walker]

Theres no need to thank m, but thank you for doing it I'm glad its lead to you strting down the path to getting your pony right. I like to take on cheap, probably knackered ponies and fix them occasionally. Im yet to find one that isnt in physical pain. I also hear you with the very short back. My last one couldnt even really take a 16" saddle. Some of these cobs just arent built to be ridden. They usually drive very well though!

 

[SEL]

That sounds a bit like my mare's reaction - although less terror and more teeth / hooves in protest. She may arch her back once in response to a very hard finger poke but try again and she'll lash out with intent.

Although she has a genetic muscular disease (PSSM) she was showing extreme soreness around her left hand lumbar area. So much so that she would flatly refuse to lunge to the right where she would have to stretch those muscles out. Possibly as a result of a fall when she was a youngster now I've dug into her background a bit. If the physio cannot release it for you then drop me a line and I'll let you know the myriad of other treatments we've been through - some with more success than others.

 

[dorsetladette]

Theres no need to thank m, but thank you for doing it I'm glad its lead to you strting down the path to getting your pony right. I like to take on cheap, probably knackered ponies and fix them occasionally. Im yet to find one that isnt in physical pain. I also hear you with the very short back. My last one couldnt even really take a 16" saddle. Some of these cobs just arent built to be ridden. They usually drive very well though!

I'm trying to up load a photo to show you how short his back is, but it keeps telling me the file is to big for the server. He is a lovely looking boy.

 

[dorsetladette]

That sounds a bit like my mare's reaction - although less terror and more teeth / hooves in protest. She may arch her back once in response to a very hard finger poke but try again and she'll lash out with intent.

Although she has a genetic muscular disease (PSSM) she was showing extreme soreness around her left hand lumbar area. So much so that she would flatly refuse to lunge to the right where she would have to stretch those muscles out. Possibly as a result of a fall when she was a youngster now I've dug into her background a bit. If the physio cannot release it for you then drop me a line and I'll let you know the myriad of other treatments we've been through - some with more success than others.

I've not been able to get to the bottom of why he is so scared, hopefully if we get rid of the pain his confidence will grow.

 

[dorsetladette]

That sounds a bit like my mare's reaction - although less terror and more teeth / hooves in protest. She may arch her back once in response to a very hard finger poke but try again and she'll lash out with intent.

Although she has a genetic muscular disease (PSSM) she was showing extreme soreness around her left hand lumbar area. So much so that she would flatly refuse to lunge to the right where she would have to stretch those muscles out. Possibly as a result of a fall when she was a youngster now I've dug into her background a bit. If the physio cannot release it for you then drop me a line and I'll let you know the myriad of other treatments we've been through - some with more success than others.

Bless him, he is such a respectful little thing - he never gets in your space even when he is having a total panic (he could easily flatten me).

There is a very blurry bit of his history I would like to know more about, but we have been told a few differing stories so I don't think we'll ever know for sure.

Thanks I will keep that in mind

 

[dorsetladette]

Here's my handsome little man 🙂

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Nice pony, he doesn't look to have a very short back in the picture but perhaps that is just the angle. My sister's section C has a shorter back than that.

 

[splashgirl45]

nice looking pony, he doesnt look that short to me either..good luck with sorting out his problem

 

[ester]

Nice type

 

[shergar]

A horse with hind gut ulcers will work better to the right and some times show lameness in the off side hind ,the cecum is on the off side . There is a good video on youtube ULCER DIAGNOSIS BY MARK DEPAOLO which will also show the sore area behind the saddle ,worth a look if only to rule it out . Facebook has a good group called TRACE MY HORSE U K if you are wanting to trace past owners ,I hope you can sort the problem ,he is a lovely pony .

 

[dorsetladette]

Physio came out to Benjamin yesterday afternoon. She was there a couple of hours. Lovely lady - we talked about him and his behaviour and what the vet said and his reaction to vet etc etc. Then she had a look at him moving and everything seemed fine, she was happy with how he tracks up and turns on a tight circle.
She examined him from head to toe, lifting legs and poking and proding him in various places (I'm sure there is a technical term) and honestly couldn't find anything. She watched me work him on the lunge and putting his nummah/saddle pad on and off. Then examined again after watching his reaction. but again still couldn't find anything.

Physio suggested it could possibly be his eye sight from watching his reactions (I have already thought about this as a possibility) but on checking his eyes she couldn't see any abnormalities (neither of us are vets tho).

He just behaved like a 3 year old that hasn't been handled much - which isn't the case. He's 7 is handled everyday and is worked 3/4 times a week. He has had 2 weeks off as I've not done anything with him since the vet checked his back on the 11th.

The farrier arrived just as we were finishing up. I put him back in the paddock for a bit and did the older boy first to give Ben a break, and my arms. (he made me look like a complete incompetent fool) But Ben wasn't happy having his feet done and took great exception to it. My farrier was brilliant with him. But on finishing B started doing his front leg waving thing and caught me (for the first time ever) on my thigh with his foot. I have a lovely toe shaped bruise/lump on my leg now.

So plan of attack now is to work him a lot harder for the next 2 weeks. Not let him get away with anything, push him forward and make him work harder if he spooks. And then re assess and see if there is any improvement.

 

[AmyMay]

Just out of interest, have you had a lameness work up done?

 

[D66]

If the two weeks hard work doesnt work you could try a bute trial - if that makes him worse it's likely to be ulcers.

 

[dorsetladette]

Just out of interest, have you had a lameness work up done?

No I haven't - we are only just starting the explore pain as an issue as opposed to it being fear. But vet watched him trot up and couldn't see any unsoundness and physio yesterday couldn't see any unsoundness. I'm not sure what they would do differently as he isn't broken so no ridden assessment. What else would they do?

 

[dorsetladette]

If the two weeks hard work doesnt work you could try a bute trial - if that makes him worse it's likely to be ulcers.

Spoke to vet when she came about ulcers ( I have some experience as my other cob had ulcers when he came to us) but she really didn't think so.

I have moved them on to the winter paddocks at the weekend so the new grass probably hasn't help his behaviour and the cold wind we had yesterday certainly made things a bit more interesting. oh yeah and you have to take into account he is welsh!!! LOL

 

[be positive]

I would get his eyes checked, many years ago a pony that came to me for backing was found to be almost blind which explained her reaction to many things.

Reading between the lines I would suspect he had a scare at some point which has left him over reactive, and why he was given away, possibly in pain somewhere and he is now deeply defensive of anything he is unsure of, I have had a few through the yard with similar issues often a combination of fear and discomfort which usually requires a lot of time, patience, possibly money to get through.
You need to get everything right from his routine, his feeding, any physical issues dealt with, which can take a long time to find and treat, have a very clear idea of your aims, ensure every lesson is a positive one, be prepared to keep going back over the same ground to build his confidence and never assume he understands anything you ask even if he seems to one day he may forget by the next, it will be a challenge but if you are up for it it will be worthwhile.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

You said your horse shows soreness where his saddle ends. Are you using a front riser pad by any chance? This will transfer weight to the back of the saddle as will a saddle that is unbalanced and not sitting properly on your horse, or too long for your horse given that you say he has a short back.

 

[dorsetladette]

You said your horse shows soreness where his saddle ends. Are you using a front riser pad by any chance? This will transfer weight to the back of the saddle as will a saddle that is unbalanced and not sitting properly on your horse, or too long for your horse given that you say he has a short back.

He's not ridden - the vet identified soreness behind where the saddle 'would' sit if he wore one. He came to our family 'free to a good home' which makes me think someone has done something which has frightened/hurt him and then not known how to correct/fix it or been frightened themselves. Potentionally someone could of started/backed him in a saddle to long for his back.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

He's not ridden - the vet identified soreness behind where the saddle 'would' sit if he wore one. He came to our family 'free to a good home' which makes me think someone has done something which has frightened/hurt him and then not known how to correct/fix it or been frightened themselves. Potentionally someone could of started/backed him in a saddle to long for his back.

I'm sorry, my fault I never read the OP properly. Yes I think he's possibly been in too long a saddle.

 

[AmyMay]

How long ago since he was first ridden?

 

[dorsetladette]

How long ago since he was first ridden?

If he ever was - a good 2 and a half years.

 

[dorsetladette]

I would get his eyes checked, many years ago a pony that came to me for backing was found to be almost blind which explained her reaction to many things.

Reading between the lines I would suspect he had a scare at some point which has left him over reactive, and why he was given away, possibly in pain somewhere and he is now deeply defensive of anything he is unsure of, I have had a few through the yard with similar issues often a combination of fear and discomfort which usually requires a lot of time, patience, possibly money to get through.
You need to get everything right from his routine, his feeding, any physical issues dealt with, which can take a long time to find and treat, have a very clear idea of your aims, ensure every lesson is a positive one, be prepared to keep going back over the same ground to build his confidence and never assume he understands anything you ask even if he seems to one day he may forget by the next, it will be a challenge but if you are up for it it will be worthwhile.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I'm hoping time and consistency will be our friend. I will get his eyes checked - Thank you

 

[Goldenstar]

I think work is a good idea he will either improve as he understands better or become worse in which case a diagnosis becomes easier

 

[dorsetladette]

Just a quick update.

I've had a long weekend off work so been able to spend 4 consecutive days with Benjamin. And I'm really please with his progress and confidence. I'm on cloud nine.

I've changed his diet - reduced all sugars and starch. He's now on hifi molasses free and unmolassed sugerbeet. (Only a token feed) and hay twice a day. He's still out 24/7.

He's been on global herbs supercalm. For a week and I've given him half a syringe an hour before work. He's like a different pony!!!

We're not worrying about tack (saddles/rollers) for now as it's just not a battle we're winning. But we are long reining, lunging over poles and small jumps. He letting me move the reins across his back so I can long rein from either side. I can groom without him flinching all the time and he's happy to stand tied up away from his mate without having a melt down. I can even go in the feed room and leave him stood there with uyt worrying (only briefly).

The boy is growing up!!!!

 

[fredflop]

IF physio didn’t find anything I’d be tempted by chiro.

They often can find diffeeent things to each other

 

[dorsetladette]

IF physio didn’t find anything I’d be tempted by chiro.

They often can find diffeeent things to each other

I'll keep it in mind, but the behaviour has completely changed. Its like the anxiety has completely gone. A family member came and helped me with the ponies yesterday. Pulled him in from the field and tied him to the lorry away from his field mate (usually a massive no no). He just stood and ate a haynet, no screaming, pouring the ground or charging around. We both groomed him (one either side) again a no no with B. Picked his feet out while family member brushed his face. But his bridle of without a faff and calmly walked out to the field where we lunged and long reined, walking past his friend without any hesitation. Its like a breath of fresh air - I know I've given him a calmer but I honestly didn't think it would be so effective. I'm amazed!

 

[Leo Walker]

Does the global herbs supercalm have magnesium in it? He sounds like he might have a magnesium deficiency if thats the case. I know for me low magnesium can cause muscle pain, I'm not 100% sure if its the same for horses or not though, but lack of it can def make them completely scatty.

 

[dorsetladette]

Does the global herbs supercalm have magnesium in it? He sounds like he might have a magnesium deficiency if thats the case. I know for me low magnesium can cause muscle pain, I'm not 100% sure if its the same for horses or not though, but lack of it can def make them completely scatty.

Yes - magnesium and potassium. I wonder if that's the case then?