"Back" people

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Norfolk Pie

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Just a musing - look forward to the answers, so thank you in advance. I'm beginning to think I'm very spoilt with the lady I use, or perhaps I am just too pedantic about horses having to move correctly in order to carry a rider and perform all the things we ask of them.

Recently, it seems most of the horses I see have been treated by a "back person" and have been given the "all clear"
Lots of them are still really tight in their backs, some I would say are lame, and the majority do not move well when walked or trotted up in hand. Many halt in hand by proping up on their forehand. they don't move straight behind. They dont bend on a turn. Therefore, how do rider's expect the horse to ride a balanced transition, or generate energy when the hind legs are weaving under their body?
Bar the lady I use, no one seems to give in hand exercises to improve a horses movement.

So my question is this : when your horse has its "back done" (I hate that term!) what are you expecting the professional to do?

What do they do to achieve this?

What do they encourage you to do to help prevent the problem reoccouring?

What are their qualifications?

What length of course / study do they undertake to gain qualification?

How many years have they been practising?

Thankies :D
 
I am with you on this, I cringe everytime I read the "backman has been" or whatever term is used, a properly qualified physio is not a "back person" but one that assesses the horse in full and treats the areas of concern, frequently the back does not require treatment but other areas do.

I am given exercises to do, they vary according to the individual, I have had the occasional "lame" horse or pony arrive or one that is considered a problem, they all get looked at by my physio before work starts and usually an issue is found that can be easily addressed.
One poor pony came in with a bad reputation, the instructor said it needed hard work and a firm rider to sort it out:(, on its assessment under saddle it was lame on 3 legs, the newly fitted, by a qualified saddler, saddle was bouncing at the back so badly it was crippling the poor thing as well as having a very sore neck and poll. He was rested until my physio could treat him had 2 treatments and came right, was sold to a lovely home and never put a foot wrong, he is still there.

I use an ACPAT physio who is used regularly by vets, I am very lucky she is also my neighbour so I can often just see her and ask for advice in passing or she pops in at the end of the day to do a quick check for me:)
 
Not much help but thought Id share this with you :)

Years ago when I was helping out at a yard; one of the horses was so grumpy, he used to lung forward showing his teeth at every one who walked passed his door, with his ears pinned back..
One day I walked passed his door and had to back track as I couldn't believe that I was looking at the same horse!
A lady was on a step ladder rubbing and pulling his back.
He looked so relaxed, with his ears forward and his neck stretched out, he looked happy!
I felt guilty for all the times I had walked past thinking " what a grumpy horse " when after what I had seen, it was quite clear that the horse may have been grumpy for a good reason.

What ever it was she was doing, he liked it!
He had on going treatments, but Im not sure of the out come as I left that yard not long after.
 
be positive said:
I use an ACPAT physio who is used regularly by vets
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I also use same ^ (tho prob not THE same!).
She is very thorough, the animal is always walked & trotted up as well as circled, before starting so a full assessment can be made.
Always have follow up exercises, from standing up properly, to feed bucket placement, to stretching properly or bending, longreining exercises, in hand work - whatever suits the individual she is treating :)
 
There isn't a single qualification as there isn't one single approach.


My main sticking point is hooves (obviously). It is widely known that hooves can create body problems and body problems can create hoof problems....in a cycle of pathology.

Most body workers (massage, McT, physio etc) are aware of what a well shod hoof looks like.

Seeing some horse's hooves and knowing what I know - I would agree the hoof is well shod - the shoes are nicely placed and the farrier is doing a great job of shoeing the hoof he's presented with......but jeez...the HOOF is deformed above the lovely shoe :mad:. How would you expect to compete well with half your foot missing it's structure :eek:?

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Any body work on a horse with deformed hooves (however well shod it appears) can only ever be damage limitation.

IME some physios in particular are notoriously blind spotted about hooves.
The amount of barefoot owners (who have rehabed a horse back from the brink after years of remedial shoeing) who have had a physio turn up, take one look at the odd looking but functional hooves and declare they need shoes or the horse will never get better.....makes me despair :rolleyes:. Move with the times people!!!
 
Oberon I am currently rehabbing a horse, not with hoof problems he has been bare for 18 months and before his unrelated injury was doing really well, the feet have gone back since his 31/2 months box rest but will get better in time. The vet came to assess him this week, along with the physio, when is he getting shod was asked by the vet, never was my reply;) He looked puzzled but is happy to go along with it, my physio however and farrier are more than pleased with progress and shoeing is not going to make any difference, if anything it will make him more unbalanced on the injured leg and set him back.

Need to train the new vet;)
 
I think there's a plethora of awful 'back people' down here in Norfolk to be honest. I cringe every time I see certain ones mentioned on the FB group, because I've seen horses who have been treated by them and I would not be happy to let them near any of ours.

Our physio is registered, and only works with vet permission, in conjunction with our vets. This means things get spotted much faster, and if there's a different reason beyond back issues for the problems they can be treated for the horse as a whole rather than fixing little bits.

When the physio comes, it's either because Al feels the horse is off but not unsound or because the horse is due a check-up. In the first case, we try and have footage of the horse and Al explains exactly what she felt. We expect the physio to thoroughly examine the horse and then to discuss what they feel is wrong and what they're going to do and what this will mean. Once the treatment is completed, they tell us what we need to do to ensure the horse continues to improve and when they'd like to check up on him again.

Our new physio is pretty new, and works in conjunction with a local vet practice.
 
I use a ACPAT qualified physio she was a human physio then trained over three years as an animal physio .
She will use massage , muscle release techniques , laser , electric pulse therapies ,acupuncture ,trigger point work , passive stretching , work on the rider too, depending on her judgement.
We discuss the horses work plan and we choose lunging , groundwork exercise and pole work on the lunge done ridden , lunging or long rien.
She also works jumping and grid work into her plan and we also use that stretchy tape for taping muscles.
She watches the horses walk and trot up every session and sees them lunge on the hard and soft regularily ( but not every time) .
And will advise on the best way to use the equissage on each horse as required.
She has been practising two years I think ( she's still quite young) but is extremely clever and has a highly scientific approach she works closely with my vet , she knows a lot about foot balance and bio mechanics and is also BF friendly which is good as my horses spend at least half the time working BF.
She's interested in saddle fitting and has studied this a lot too.
I am very lucky to have her she's great.
I also use an equine touch lady, that's mainly a nice add on for horses when they are working hard they find that relaxing and nice but it's not in the same league as a fully qualified physio.
 
I've only had disappointing experiences with ACPAT physics. a well know equine one up here never sees the horse worked/moving, or gives any follow up exercises etc. one of her (qualified) pupils, missed that my horse was bilaterally lame behind and didn't suggest a vet referral. after that, I got qualified in equine sports massage and educated myself-I am already educated to PhD level in science so found it difficult to find a course that I felt was serious enough. I am happy to talk through my training, it's limitations, my insurance and only work with vet permission-to do otherwise is illegal.
I refer everything back to a vet that I'm not happy with and haven't been proved wrong yet (many 'back' issues are caused by undiagnosed lower limb lameness-often in the foot). Other back issues are caused by the rider and all you can do about that is be diplomatic!
 
MotherOfChickens said:
I've only had disappointing experiences with ACPAT physics. a well know equine one up here never sees the horse worked/moving, or gives any follow up exercises etc.
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Are you in Surrey, by any chance?


I refer everything back to a vet that I'm not happy with and haven't been proved wrong yet (many 'back' issues are caused by undiagnosed lower limb lameness-often in the foot). Other back issues are caused by the rider and all you can do about that is be diplomatic!
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This ^.
 
The issue of people getting back people to horses who need vets is widespread and serious .
I know of one case where a back person was treating a horse who clearly ( to me anyway ) had a seriously lameness issue and it's months before it got proper veterinary imput and all the time this ' back person' took the money of a seriously impaired horse who ended up PTS for the issue .
I try not to get involved but this was very very hard to watch.
 
Goldenstar said:
The issue of people getting back people to horses who need vets is widespread and serious .
I know of one case where a back person was treating a horse who clearly ( to me anyway ) had a seriously lameness issue and it's months before it got proper veterinary imput and all the time this ' back person' took the money of a seriously impaired horse who ended up PTS for the issue .
I try not to get involved but this was very very hard to watch.
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Also when you suggest the owner get the vet for hoof related problems when you can see the hooves are screamingly deformed, and the vet just says, "The hooves look fine."

Erm :mad::mad::mad:
 
lastchancer said:
Ahh i misread the title and thought it said ''black'' people!!!
Now I understand......
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:D Thanks for that - Crumbs all over keyboard!

Lolo, interesting that you have similar reaction to me re the various recommendations! I must see about 3 horses a week, "treated" by some of those suggested. It is getting increasingly difficult to bite my tongue!

MotherOfChickens - I agree plenty are caused by the rider, and I think part of the problem there is a lack of instructors prepared to be honest, or perhaps actually without enough experience to recognise it. That's my second pet hate - actually it probably ties for first place with the thread title!
 
As an owner you have to arm yourself with knowledge to make sure you are doing the best for your horse.
Sometimes I think people get the latest favour of the month person to do their horse but don't want to be told you need to work at xyz and do carrot stretches everyday or that the saddle is not right etc etc they just to pay the money and believe all is well.
 
I have been studying for my diploma in Equine Bowen Therapy....

For my qualification, I have to do over 100 hours of treatments. These are all assessed and marked. I also have to do an anatomy and physiology course and we are taught to look at referred pain patterns, the body compensating for injuries, hoof problems, poorly fitting gear, teeth (yes teeth can cause ridden problems too) and also how all of the above can and will affect the horses biomechanics.

I have been studying it for over a year. I would hope that any body worker would have a minimum of a years study under their belt before charging for their services and also be looking at studying another modality. All bodywork is complimentary and what works for one horse really well, another horse may be too sore to handle. It helps to have something else in up your sleeve to make your treatments more effective.
 
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