Back shoes on horses turned out together

PoppyAnderson said:
Believe? I don't 'believe'. That (insultingly!) insinuates that my assertion is based on no knowledge.
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OK - tell me how you 'know' every horse can go barefoot.

The insulting bit is saying people 'can't be bothered'. Do you really think people visit here time and time and time again to discuss their horses, their problems and what they can do to make things better is because they 'can't be bothered'?

I do agree that the fields we keep our horses in don't help, but neither does the way we've bred them.
 
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PoppyAnderson said:
Believe? I don't 'believe'. That (insultingly!) insinuates that my assertion is based on no knowledge.
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I'd suggest that that your opinions and or beliefs may well be based upon your experience and it may well be that you've never yet had a horse which fails to thrive barefoot.

It's just possible that your experience is different from that of others, others who have gone beyond the extra mile and eventually come to accept that a/their horse cannot cope without shoes.

All opinions, experiences and even beliefs should at least be given consideration, I'd suggest.

Alec.
 
As everyone has gone to so much trouble to answer here's a quick update. Shoes are back on for now. I want to keep her in work and would rather prepare a barefoot transition correctly ie sort the diet out, have the hoofboots ready and have a care and work program that would support the transition not lame her on our first outing. She had started to have various issues linked to her lifestyle at the yard and I've brought her home as I felt we were at danger of getting into a cycle of treating symptoms not causes. Now I just need to make sure I actually do do a better job of managing her here :)
Thank you everyone
 
Alec Swan said:
I'd suggest that that your opinions and or beliefs may well be based upon your experience and it may well be that you've never yet had a horse which fails to thrive barefoot.

It's just possible that your experience is different from that of others, others who have gone beyond the extra mile and eventually come to accept that a/their horse cannot cope without shoes.

Alec.
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Come off it Alec. You've been around here long enough to know that that's just stuff n nonsense. There is no such thing as a horse that can't cope without shoes.....which is simply not just my belief/opinion/naivety. Many people on this thread would do well to start educating themselves. This is as good a place as any to start http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/living-in-dark-ages.html?m=1
 
Oh seriously...plenty of us know the Rockley stuff backwards. I'm afraid there are exceptions. I have one. He grows the tough hoof but his soles will NEVER be thick enough to cope in work bf. Fact. Same with the imbalance on one fore. Don't patronise those of us who have experience of both sides.
 
Nudibranch said:
Oh seriously...plenty of us know the Rockley stuff backwards. I'm afraid there are exceptions. I have one. He grows the tough hoof but his soles will NEVER be thick enough to cope in work bf. Fact. Same with the imbalance on one fore. Don't patronise those of us who have experience of both sides.
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Do you keep him on grass?
 
PoppyAnderson said:
Come off it Alec. You've been around here long enough to know that that's just stuff n nonsense. There is no such thing as a horse that can't cope without shoes.....which is simply not just my belief/opinion/naivety. Many people on this thread would do well to start educating themselves. This is as good a place as any to start http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/living-in-dark-ages.html?m=1
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I think you may believe that no horse ever needs shoes but in my experience some cope far better than others and it often comes down to the facilities available, it is not possible for every owner to keep their horses in a "perfect" yard, most do not have the time, many will not have the desire and far more will lack the knowledge to get their horse comfortable to be in full work without using shoes, it does not make them bad owners or uncaring just realistic, they want to ride the horse, compete it and for the majority of owners that is why they have a horse in the first place, not to spend most of the time being concerned that it may be struggling to cope or monitoring it's feet, diet, workload constantly.

I think you are the one not living in the real world, you can be well educated about barefoot but until you have taken several horses barefoot and worked them fully without needing to shoe I don't think anyone can be so opinionated, I do keep mine barefoot and have had several in full work, competing regularly without shoeing including an ex racehorse but most required shoes and studs once they got to a more serious level not because their feet were not coping but because the job they were meant to do was compromised.

I would be interested to know how many horses you have taken barefoot and what they did, the proof is in the pudding and I suspect you have not produced many yourself, probably far less than I have and I would never make sweeping statements such as the one above because I am realistic.
 
We are saying the same thing Be Positive! The UK isn't typically and most livery yards aren't typically set up for enabling horses to thrive barefoot. This sets up an immediate challenge. Add to that many uneducated/ignorant/time-poor/unmotivated owners and you create a group of people who believe that many horses physically cannot go barefoot. All horses can infact go barefoot, given the right feed/exercise/trimming regime.
 
be positive said:
It does not make them bad owners or uncaring just realistic, they want to ride the horse, compete it and for the majority of owners that is why they have a horse in the first place, not to spend most of the time being concerned that it may be struggling to cope or monitoring it's feet, diet, workload constantly.
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They will have to spend the time and money though when the horse goes lame, can't compete, gets written off eventually due to bad management. How many people come on here with lammi/navicular/DDFT/soft tissue/shoeing problems. Shoeing just creates and masks issues - it certainly doesn't resolve them. Horses have lammi brewing away under the shoes - it can just take longer to show up, by which time, the horse is in much greater trouble.
 
PoppyAnderson said:
They will have to spend the time and money though when the horse goes lame, can't compete, gets written off eventually due to bad management. How many people come on here with lammi/navicular/DDFT/soft tissue/shoeing problems. Shoeing just creates and masks issues - it certainly doesn't resolve them. Horses have lammi brewing away under the shoes - it can just take longer to show up, by which time, the horse is in much greater trouble.
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Really? Not sure quite how you come to that conclusion ... My horses and those I have cared for (and there have been a fair few over 5 decades) have all been shod, all stayed sound bar the odd day missed for a kick or bruise, all enjoyed their jobs and most have lived to a ripe old age.

One came to me free aged 13 with terrible laminitis, which took over a year to resolve. He loved his work right until the end of his life, aged 29 and was the most cheerful soul I think I've ever met.

I'd be fascinated to hear how you think that is bad management? Or 'uneducated/ignorant/time-poor/unmotivated' as you so sweetly put it ...
 
PoppyAnderson said:
They will have to spend the time and money though when the horse goes lame, can't compete, gets written off eventually due to bad management. How many people come on here with lammi/navicular/DDFT/soft tissue/shoeing problems. Shoeing just creates and masks issues - it certainly doesn't resolve them. Horses have lammi brewing away under the shoes - it can just take longer to show up, by which time, the horse is in much greater trouble.
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It is not a certainty that every shod horse will have issues hidden by wearing shoes, poor management is not just about shoeing although I agree bad shoeing can be a cause of issues, an owner leaving too long between farrier visits so the foot is compromised will probably do no better if they go barefoot and may not recognise a bilaterally unsound horse anyway so the horse could be worse off than in shoes.
 
My 6 year old already has soundness issues having never worn a shoe. He is at home, on grass but it is very old mixed sheep pasture, never fertilised, on the edge of the fells. Last time I did a quick count I reached 32 different plant species and gave up. His summer field is a long thin 4 acre strip with hills and marsh. He has 10 acres in winter. His minerals are balanced ( our grazing is low in magnesium and copper). Every other horse here has been unshod. This is not your stereotypical postage stamp livery yard.

I almost couldn't be bothered to reply and actually wonder why I am justifying myself to you but on behalf of those of us who have been there and done it I am trying to show you the world is not black and white. I may well try again in the future but at this time he needs the remedial aspect of front shoes along with sole protection. My farrier is very supportive of keeping horses unshod. We have battled slightly with the vet but based on several workups and X ray sets since this horse was 2, my vet is right. I'm sorry but the 80 odd years of experience between myself, the vet and the farrier are more likely to get this horse right than taking a blind blanket approach based on...well, what?
 
Mrs B said:
Really? Not sure quite how you come to that conclusion ... My horses and those I have cared for (and there have been a fair few over 5 decades) have all been shod, all stayed sound bar the odd day missed for a kick or bruise, all enjoyed their jobs and most have lived to a ripe old age.

One came to me free aged 13 with terrible laminitis, which took over a year to resolve. He loved his work right until the end of his life, aged 29 and was the most cheerful soul I think I've ever met.

I'd be fascinated to hear how you think that is bad management? Or 'uneducated/ignorant/time-poor/unmotivated' as you so sweetly put it ...
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absolutely agree!!!!!!!!! i have had horses for over 50 years, some shod,some not...all of mine have lived to a ripe old age and have been sound ... the oldest was 35 and was ridden till 31, incidentally she was shod for the first 10 years, then i kept her without shoes for about 15 years and then had to shoe in front for her last few years of being ridden.. as i said in my earlier post, we have to listen to each individual horse and not think that there is only one way to manage horses...i dont think my horses have been managed badly by shoeing when necessary.......
 
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