Back to the drawing board... WHICH STALLION SHALL I USE!! arrrggghh

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Chick1989

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Right...... I am wanting to do an embryo transfer this year from my nearly Adv event mare but I am struggling to find a stallion to suit.

She is a short coupled Belgian Warmblood with a lot of jump and plenty of movement. She is a bit of a hot head so her hubby MUST be well mannered and have a good temperament. He also must refine as she can look a little butty!!! which she isn't but she needs a little more length to her neck and back as well as more blood.

I have been looking at Jag Mail but he can only provide frozen semen and for a ET this isnt the best way to get a foal... 7 or 8 foals out of 12 were some stats given to me from the ET clinic.

Not sure if this frozen semen business is REALLY going to make a difference or whether I should look else where. I have thought about Grafenstolz but he wont refine as much as Jag M will and I have heard he is a hot head which wont be a good combination with my mare.

I have also considered Chilli Morning as he has a really really good BE record .....

PLEASE HELP.

xxx

PS... im going to try and post a picture of my girl.... not sure if it will work
 
I would say that Chilli is a heavier stamp to either of those....

What about Wish Upon a Star?

Or if going foreihn..how about Mighty Magic if you can get chilled?

For UK based, there is also Caretino Glory who is producing some seriously good stock.
 
Yes I have looked at Mighty Magic ... he is absolutely jaw droppingly gorgeous! But he doesn't come with a live foal guarantee which is a very reassuring part of the contract! He is also sold in 'doses'... not sure what this means?? any idea?

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Per dose simply means.....per covering session essentially. Thus is you need a couple then you pay for a couple of doses.

The LFG is fabulous but not all studs offer it as yet....although more are doing it nowadays.

What about also looking at Future Illusion? He is young but has covered a few Advanced and 4 star mares now and his first few crops are seriously impressive. Plus he himself was leading eventing sire in the futurity rankings in 2009....no mean feat for a young stallion! Plus with him being predominantly Trak and Tb you will be adding a lot of blood.
 
Have reposted pics for you so you can see them.....she is a stunner btw!

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My Weston Justice is advanced and has already been used very successfully for ET. We work on a live foal basis like a lot of studs just tend to word it differently and a very flexible with our terms.
He is one of the few stallions in this country who is Advanced, won Advanced gone 3 star and is Graded. His youngsters have done very well in futurities and are now begin to go well under saddle.
 
Chick1989,

if you're considering ET, then I would put all thoughts of frozen semen behind you.

There are some very good British BASED stallions available. This is an important point. If you need to find semen, and in a hurry, then you should prepare yourself to travel to the Continent, and go and collect it yourself. (By "collect" I mean that you may well have to receive the flask!!)

I know that the principal of French Stallions, is in this country on a regular basis (when he isn't organising an Expo!) and I'm sure that you will find that if you haven't organised semen from here, there could be some help in that direction.

I am also going down the route of ET, and there is one thing of which I'm CERTAIN. Fresh works best, but assuming that the stallion which you chose doesn't stand at an ET station, then you have to consider chilled. From what I've managed to deduce, chilled works, and just about as well. Frozen MAY work, but you are reducing your chances considerably. It really isn't a matter of AI'ing a mare. The embryo has to be transferred, and that AINT quite so simple, as you have to consider the recipient mares. There is a protocol to follow.

A stallion choice? Have you looked at No Limit or Grannex from Whorridge stud? Just look at what these two horses have produced. The donor mare which we are planning to take embryo(s) from, is by Grannex. If I'm really honest, I'm not too certain that No Limit is what I would call beautiful, BUT, plenty of people more knowledgeable than I have used him, and without question, he has some excellent stock to justify his existence.

I have always found Whorridge Stud to be the most amenable, knowledgeable and helpful of people. The choice is yours!!

Alec.
 
I saw Chilli Morning at Burghley, and wouldn't have said he was heavy at all? one of the things I really liked about him is that IMO he's a light framed TB, really refined compared to lots of the WB sires available
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Not the best pic...


BYEH5yoStallionParade739.jpg
 
Chilli Morning actually has a lot of TB in his blood so is quite a bit lighter than a lot of warmbloods. Having said that he was 3 day fit at Burghley and almost looked a bit herring gutted because of it. For ET purposes it is much easier to use retired Stallions to have them on tap so to speak, plus in stallions the quality of the semen can dip in some if they are in a fit state, but thats more Andypandys expertise.
 
I would look at Watermill Swatch,Mill Law or Weston Justice. Watermill especially I think would be a good match!
http://www.kylemorestud.com/stallions_detail.php?image_id=5

E.TS- Chilli Morning is fabolous himself, but has unknown parentage and damline,( we know their names but no-one knows what his father/mother were or if they did anything-) therefore I think it would be a risk to use him until he has proven stock on the ground..
 
This is all really helpful and I now feel I have a lot more knowledge on various stallions.

I am not in a rush to decide which is good as my mare will have a short break in may to have it done. I think a trip to the Stallion Expo may be in order!
 
I would have to agree about Chilli - I really like him BUT when he is not 3 day event fit, even though there is a high % of TB blood, he is not exactly fine and just feel that until we know whether he throws fine/heavy stock, etc. that in this case maybe wait a year or two.

I think Watermill Swatch is STUNNING and really love the look of him and he certainly ticks all the boxes from a refinement POV as he himself is VERY VERY fine. My one concern about him is that he himself, from all accounts I have heard, is a stunning show horse/dressage horse but lets himself down in his jumping. Again though this is just what i have heard through contacts.

Weston Justice - i do not know why I forgot him the first time! I have seen some seriously nice progeny by him and he himself is certainly proven as an eventer and is near enough pure TB.
 
I might be totally wrong here, but surely once you have an Embryo to transfer, it is no less likely to remain viable once the transfer is done whether it has been conceived by fresh, chilled or frozen!

When you are getting mares cycling together for ET there is a lot of scanning and work already involved so AI with frozen doesnt cause a lot more work - you just have the normal difference in conception rates.
 
From what I understand its all down to whether my mare takes the frozen semen ... once she has taken it the transfer its self is less of an issue.

I have looked at Weston Justice and tbh I am not overly keen on him but that might just be because I really like the foreign stamp.... can someone give me some of his progeny to search?

Regarding Chilli M... the picture above is off my mare at her absolutely fittest she has ever been as that picture was taken at Weston park in October.... she looks a little more round and more like a showjumper... I am thinking this may be the same for Chilli M.
 
Hi,

Looking at you mare I think our young boy would be ideal. His temprement is superb and one of his young ones are from a very hot headed KWPN mare and they have follwed Springs temprement.

You can see Springfield Symphony and his youngster, Springs Harry on:

http://www.springfieldstud.com

We are alos very close to Twemlows who are on of the top ET centres.
 
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E.TS- Chilli Morning is fabolous himself, but has unknown parentage and damline,( we know their names but no-one knows what his father/mother were or if they did anything-) therefore I think it would be a risk to use him until he has proven stock on the ground..

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CM's Damsire: The stallion Kolibri, who hails from Mecklenberg in Germany, won the 1992 stallion performance test in Neustadt. Kolibri's sire, Kobold, was a state stallion in Redefin and was an active sire until his later years. Kobold was a son of Komet, a turning point himself in the decling Korling line, which almost ceased to exist. Korling was a son of the Celle state stallion, Korting, the last in his line in Hanover. Komet is the source of the spectacular show jumping genes carried through Kolibri today.

Kolibri's influence reaches far beyond the boundaries of his native Saxony-Anhalt. He stakes claim to sixteen approved sons and more than 60 state premium mares. He presented the champion stallion in both 1993 and 194 and belongs to a coveted group whose progeny exceed in the show jumping arena. Many Kolibri offspring are owned by top showjumping competitors including the state stallion Kosar who was ridden by Nelson Pessoa. Holger Wulschner rode Komtesse 32, Christian Ahlmann campaigned Kleopatra 23 and Friank Martin rode Konto, all with great success. Kolibri son, Kontango, competed at the 2000 Olympic Games in Sydney.

CM's Granddamsire: wellknown thouroughbred Grollus xx. Grollus xx is father of a big group of highclass jumpers in East Germany. Grollus xx has so legendary thouroughbred horses like Alchimist xx and Schwarzgold xx in his pedigree. One of Grollus xx-offspring is the international Military horse Gallus (Ch. Zehe) - which was nominated for Olympic Games and died under mysterous conditions in the training-camp before in 1992. Gallus was the first horse from East Germany who was distinguished as "horse of the year" in Germany. The strong bloodline of Grollus xx is now only in some broodmares to find.
 
Thanks for all that info on Chilli.

She is by Pik Solo out of Pik Bube.... Her GG.Grandad is Pik koenig. She is Belgian Warmblood through and through hence we need some blood in her.

Does any one know how long Chilled semen lasts? I think there is a possibility of getting chilled semen couriered over from France. dos anyone have experience of this?

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then you should prepare yourself to travel to the Continent, and go and collect it yourself. (By "collect" I mean that you may well have to receive the flask!!)


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Are folks allowed to do this? say for normal AI. Hyptothetically say from Wales to Ireland or can the stud in Wales send the sample to an equine vets in Ireland. If its a stallion a person really wants to use do they ever bring the mare to the stallion in a different country or would it cost a fortune. I know in racing there is live covering only.
 
Tharg,

I'm not certain of my facts, but I "think" that semen can be shipped across International borders providing that the stallion is licensed with the relevant agricultural governing body, in our case Defra.

It's true, of course, that both mares and stallions are shipped about on stud duties, which I suppose is how the larger AI centres hold fairly large stocks of semen from stallions which are actually resident abroad.

Alec.
 
Semen can be shipped from Northern Ireland to England and vice versa without any problems at all.
But semen can only be shipped from southern ireland and europe and the same the other way if the stallion is resident in an EU approved centre.
 
Just to add a tuppenceworth of past experience. Have used Primo Pageant on two mares; one more substantial than yours and a 3/4 TB. One was a carbon copy of the first dam and second turned into a strong, half-bred type. And both were on the sharp side!
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Have two in-foal to Watermill Swatch this year and looking forward to those foals; from what I've seen of his foals to date, he definitely adds refinement but haven't heard ANYTHING about doubts over his jumping ability.
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Semen can be shipped from Northern Ireland to England and vice versa without any problems at all.
But semen can only be shipped from southern ireland and europe and the same the other way if the stallion is resident in an EU approved centre.

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Could it be sent to NI and then a courrier bring it down?

It's the Rep of Ireland, southern Ireland means Cork or Kerry!
 
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