Backed and ridden at two...

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team barney

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It isn't just idiots on Dragon Driving...

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150978146100604.784545.223809555603&type=1

The self proclaimed epitome of natural horsemanship endorses and practises the idiocy on a two year old event prospect :( I don't know why I am surprised really, just another string to their bow of equine cruelty

Beating half blind horses and backing babies, Parelli reveals it's true nature yet again.
 
In the USA it is considered normal to back and ride, and even show, a 2 year old. It shocked my sister when she went to live in the States, particularly as it isn't a lightweight jockey riding them, but a full grown adult man and often with a hefty saddle as well.

It is considered so normal that hardly anyone questions it.
 
But he knows it is physically mature enough so it must be ok:rolleyes:

I just dont see the point, it still cannot go out and compete until its at least 4 by that time it may be more forward in its training but more likely to be wearing out physically or with too much parelli probably totally fed up.

2 year olds should be living in a field with other horses being horses.
 
Dear Orange,

I must correct what you say. I am American and both of my grandfathers raised horses. It is NOT normal practice to ride two year olds! The norm is just as it is here. The only exception is racing where there as here they compete two year olds which I do not approve of. I do not know where your sister was - backwoods place of some kind and doubtless there are all sort of numpties there as here, but the norm is to get on a horse at 3-4 and to bring them on formally at 4+.
 
It's no wonder so many horses have problems later on in life after being started too early. Not to mention that it's a lot to ask for a young horse to do in a day.

What makes me more shocked is how everyone has been sucked into it and no one thinks it's such a problem for a horse this young horse to be doing this, crazy! My definition of a 'professional' and there's is a lifetime apart.
 
its irritates me! novices look up to parelli because it rants about natural horsemanship. Im sorry but all i can see is a plonker riding a 2 year old horse. Why rush - whats the point! Secondly, that video showing Linda P hitting a horse round the head because it got too close to her. Its all party tricks, who really benifits by making a horse stand on something?

I know there are worse things in life, but it really grates me.
 
I wouldn't back as a 2 year old personally, I saw nothing about those pictures that was concerning though. In fact I thought he just did everything a good horseman would, yes a bit early but horse was completely chilled. Assuming that youngster is now turned away for a year, no harm done and what a stunning pair of horses. It's irrelevant really whether it's Parelli or not.
 
Jaquelin, I am very glad to know this, I have obviously been mixing with the wrong sort of people!

My horse was long reined, broken to drive and backed at 18 months and he is a Morgan, and this is not common, it is normal. My sister said that it seemed that as soon as a foal lost its fluffy tail it was regarded as old enough to work.

I know that not everyone agrees, including Dr. Deb Bennett, who has a very informative physical development article on her website and she is after all, a scientist. Having got my horse home, I read her article and prompty turned him out in the field to mature.

Look in any Western magazine, quarter horses advertised for sale at 3 that have done quite a lot, also Saddlebreds, etc. etc.

The Brits have argued with American trainers about this, but they simply don't see the problem. In Sweden you can't ride a horse in the ring until it is 5.
 
jaquelin said:
Dear Orange,

I must correct what you say. I am American and both of my grandfathers raised horses. It is NOT normal practice to ride two year olds! The norm is just as it is here. The only exception is racing where there as here they compete two year olds which I do not approve of. I do not know where your sister was - backwoods place of some kind and doubtless there are all sort of numpties there as here, but the norm is to get on a horse at 3-4 and to bring them on formally at 4+.
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Oooo er I too thought it was normal practice to back at 2 in the USA and Canada... Didnt Tia say it was the norm in Canada to do this? (I may have memory lapse) but its nice to hear its not the done thing :)
 
I'd agree no lasting damage done if the plonker was just having a quick sit, but he was working the horse tacked up in walk trot and canter, to me that is very wrong.

The fact it is a "professional" doing this is entirely relevant as they set the standards for acceptability. Some unknown fool on DragonDriving isn't influencing countless people to follow suit. Whether you like it or not Parelli's actions will influence others, regardless of if they turn the youngster away the damage is now done as countless people will follow their example and back their two year old and those two year olds won't all get turned away.
And quiet frankly I don't think turning away for a year is going to mend the damage caused by that amount of work.

The horse may not look "distressed" to you, but we are seeing a handful of professional photos selected to endorse a brand, of cause they are going to pick the most user friendly ones!
 
I like how Parelli have given the exact same answer to everyone who has questioned the soundness of backing a horse at two, it appears three times in the thread so far, the same words written by different people!


"the age you can begin the starting process depends. An ideal age is three, but if they are physically more mature it is ok to start them sooner. James won't start a horse that isn't physically mature enough and would definitely wait. For Trumpet this is just the beginning, and after this initial start he will be given plenty of time to develop physically, mentally and emotionally before he starts his full training as an eventing horse."

And three certainly isn't the ideal age, it may be the traditionally accepted norm but it isn't the equine ideal.
 
Backing at two and three seems quite common to me all round the world. :( It is something I feel is a cause of all sorts of problems for horses both mentally and physically.

Those that practice this early backing include many well respected and experienced horsemen and women. :confused: This includes many American NH horsemen and women but it isn't by any means restricted to NH or America. Racing, dressage, showing all these have well respected people who back at two or three somewhere in the world.

I personally cannot understand how people can hold these views, how can a horse possibly be mature at two or three? :(
 
team barney said:
"the age you can begin the starting process depends. An ideal age is three, but if they are physically more mature it is ok to start them sooner. James won't start a horse that isn't physically mature enough and would definitely wait. For Trumpet this is just the beginning, and after this initial start he will be given plenty of time to develop physically, mentally and emotionally before he starts his full training as an eventing horse."

And three certainly isn't the ideal age, it may be the traditionally accepted norm but it isn't the equine ideal.
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I think leaving aside that this comes from the Parelli movement (and I agree they are not setting a great example), this statement reads as pretty reasonable to me. Starting could just mean groundwork, desensitising, bitting. It doesn't have to mean riding away & a seasons hunting. Most 3 year olds are ready to have some mental stimulation and it's a good age to teach some life lessons. I agree you wouldn't do anything taxing or physically stressful, but 'starting' at three is what I would do.
 
I am not saying that it is right or that I agree with riding a horse at two, and I wouldn't advise it as I think it can damage their backs.

But lots of people simply don't see a problem.
 
siennamum said:
I think leaving aside that this comes from the Parelli movement (and I agree they are not setting a great example), this statement reads as pretty reasonable to me. Starting could just mean groundwork, desensitising, bitting. It doesn't have to mean riding away & a seasons hunting. Most 3 year olds are ready to have some mental stimulation and it's a good age to teach some life lessons. I agree you wouldn't do anything taxing or physically stressful, but 'starting' at three is what I would do.
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Tend to agree with the above, I doubt that anyone, least of all James Roberts, will want to do anything with this horse which will cause any problems for it in either the long or short term. I for one will be following the progress of this horse with interest.
 
siennamum said:
I think leaving aside that this comes from the Parelli movement (and I agree they are not setting a great example), this statement reads as pretty reasonable to me. Starting could just mean groundwork, desensitising, bitting. It doesn't have to mean riding away & a seasons hunting. Most 3 year olds are ready to have some mental stimulation and it's a good age to teach some life lessons. I agree you wouldn't do anything taxing or physically stressful, but 'starting' at three is what I would do.
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But working under saddle in walk trot and canter is a little more than starting a horse in my opinion, and this gelding is two, not three.
 
yes, the statement reads as very reasonable, and if they were taking a reasonable amount of time (as opposed to three days) to work on leading, handling, long lining, obstacles, saddling up, and having a sit on, it could be seen as reasonable. However, the pictures and wording suggests that they have rushed through this process and the result is a young horse, looking very tense, being trotted around with a rider on board, which I do not see as reasonable. Even if they intend to leave it at that, what is the point of the condensed time-scale? Even if the horse is physically able to cope (extremely debatable) what about the mental stress of this speed of training? Why is speed valued above the quality of learning experience given to the horse - given that it has been emphasised that this is a horse who is expected to be a top competition animal for many years?
 
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