Backing 3/4yr olds

[TheMule]

A little "Ollie", update for you all in case anyone is still following this thread and remembers us, he will be 4 in May and I had done most of the initial groundwork, sat on him 4-5 times, he went 2 weeks ago to a fab event rider for starting off correctly, install some steering, brakes and start of a mouth, collected him on Saturday and I am so pleased with how he is doing, still very very green obviously, but before he came home i got to walk trot and canter him on both reins and he's been doing a bit of hacking, he is super- I am so so pleased

He's very smart- how exciting!

 

[monte1]

He's very smart- how exciting!

thank you, i love him to bits, still cannot believe i managed to breed such a super horse !

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

10th time he’s ever been sat on and first one under saddle and I am so in love with the canter he gave today

 

[ihatework]

10th time he’s ever been sat on and first one under saddle and I am so in love with the canter he gave today

Good balance for size/age/stage of training - no wonder you are pleased!

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Ok, so I now officially own more saddles than months Dex has been backed

- Thorowgood that he was lightly backed in, doesn't fit me very well at all but hanging on as it's always good to have something adjustable to hand in desperate times
- Black Country GP - super good price so bought it on a whim on Ebay, sold as 17.5'' but arrived as an 18'' which was annoying. Saddle fitter came and it actually fit him really well so got lucky, but she said it fits him length wise but it's at his max and he'll tell me if he is happy there or not. Turns out he's not happy with it.. so now, saddle number three
- Black Country Dressage, 17.5'' - hoping he'll like this and my dodgy hips will appreciate the stability of it. Fingers crossed!

Now to sell the other BC, which is really sad as it's incredibly comfortable and super smart looking.

On the plus side we went out for first ever proper hack today, only walk with a couple short 'catch up' trots and he was SUPER. A deer ran out of the woods, pheasants, dogs, cyclists, two big artics and his companion had a couple spooks and he didn't really bat an eyelid. He did however hump at the end and was a bit reactive to back palpation once I got off, hence how I know that the saddle isn't for him, and so he will have his massage tomorrow and then have some time off until my saddle fitter comes on the 11th April. She is brilliant, but is 4 hours away now which is a shame, so I get her to come to the yard whenever I can!

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Young horses and saddles can be a bit of a minefield. I'll be backing my 3 year old at some point within the next 6 months and I have no idea what I am doing about a saddle. He has an English saddle for getting used to a saddle and whatnot, but it's not suitable for me to ride in.

My preferred brand that works for me is Amerigo. I'm also OK with Equipe and sometimes Prestige. However, a wool flocked Bates Innova popped up for sale and I'm considering it. I've ridden in one before and while I didn't love the saddle, it was doable. I've never found another Bates or Winrec that I've actually been able to ride in. Same with Kent and Masters, I just can't do them. I had a Fairfax that I was ok in for awhile.

I'm not crazy about the gullet plate design with the kink in it on the Bates. Not sure how much it matters though? With Amerigo you can only go up one size and/or down one size, and finding someone local to adjust it...well, they don't exist. So I'd have to get creative with that one, but I love the brand and last horse of the same breed also went well in his.

I have no idea what to do

Saddles here aren't cheap (like $1500 for an '06 model Bates in good condition and $3 to $5k for a nice used Amerigo) so I don't want to play around too much, but some places do offer trials...but the shipping is about $100 or more. I'm fine with spending some money, but don't want to throw away too many thousands of dollars.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Young horses and saddles can be a bit of a minefield. I'll be backing my 3 year old at some point within the next 6 months and I have no idea what I am doing about a saddle. He has an English saddle for getting used to a saddle and whatnot, but it's not suitable for me to ride in.

My preferred brand that works for me is Amerigo. I'm also OK with Equipe and sometimes Prestige. However, a wool flocked Bates Innova popped up for sale and I'm considering it. I've ridden in one before and while I didn't love the saddle, it was doable. I've never found another Bates or Winrec that I've actually been able to ride in. Same with Kent and Masters, I just can't do them. I had a Fairfax that I was ok in for awhile.

I'm not crazy about the gullet plate design with the kink in it on the Bates. Not sure how much it matters though? With Amerigo you can only go up one size and/or down one size, and finding someone local to adjust it...well, they don't exist. So I'd have to get creative with that one, but I love the brand and last horse of the same breed also went well in his.

I have no idea what to do

Saddles here aren't cheap (like $1500 for an '06 model Bates in good condition and $3 to $5k for a nice used Amerigo) so I don't want to play around too much, but some places do offer trials...but the shipping is about $100 or more. I'm fine with spending some money, but don't want to throw away too many thousands of dollars.

Oooof, that is expensive! The thorowgood was £80 and was a bargain, the BC GP was £200 and also a complete bargain and the BC Dressage was £500 - so whilst not ideal, it's not entirely bank breaking thankfully. My saddle fitter is a BC specialist and the tree shape seems to suit him so I think I'm going to stick with them as much as possible (plus they're not a bad price and super comfy!)

I have found that the flatter more European type jump saddles work better with a changing horse and padding up as/when needed, which is why I think you'll often find 'pros' who ride 8-10 a day having them and putting it on all of them, so it might be worth giving one of those a go if you can find one that will work. It must be so tricky in the US as it sounds like sometimes everything is just that bit far away!

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Oooof, that is expensive! The thorowgood was £80 and was a bargain, the BC GP was £200 and also a complete bargain and the BC Dressage was £500 - so whilst not ideal, it's not entirely bank breaking thankfully. My saddle fitter is a BC specialist and the tree shape seems to suit him so I think I'm going to stick with them as much as possible (plus they're not a bad price and super comfy!)

I have found that the flatter more European type jump saddles work better with a changing horse and padding up as/when needed, which is why I think you'll often find 'pros' who ride 8-10 a day having them and putting it on all of them, so it might be worth giving one of those a go if you can find one that will work. It must be so tricky in the US as it sounds like sometimes everything is just that bit far away!

Yeah, my last trainer (rode jumpers and dressage) had a few Equipe's that seemed to do well enough on a variety of horses.

Things are further in the US, especially depending on where you live, and the UK is cheap as chips regarding horse stuff in comparison to most places in the US.

I've ridden in a few Black Country saddles before and found them to be very comfortable. There is a BC rep that may come out this way, but only once or twice a year. There's an independent saddle fitter and I may get her opinion on where to start for him. I took some tracings just for myself to visualize his shape in another way.

 

[Caol Ila]

Anything treeless out your way?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Anything treeless out your way?

Not that I'm aware of. I don't really want to go that route, and I'd have to find a way to actually ride in one first before committing. I can do a search though.

That's part of why I want to get something that I know I'll get along with. I can't actually ride the horse in it since he's not backed yet.

 

[ycbm]

Young horses and saddles can be a bit of a minefield. I'll be backing my 3 year old at some point within the next 6 months and I have no idea what I am doing about a saddle. He has an English saddle for getting used to a saddle and whatnot, but it's not suitable for me to ride in.

My preferred brand that works for me is Amerigo. I'm also OK with Equipe and sometimes Prestige. However, a wool flocked Bates Innova popped up for sale and I'm considering it. I've ridden in one before and while I didn't love the saddle, it was doable. I've never found another Bates or Winrec that I've actually been able to ride in. Same with Kent and Masters, I just can't do them. I had a Fairfax that I was ok in for awhile.

I'm not crazy about the gullet plate design with the kink in it on the Bates. Not sure how much it matters though? With Amerigo you can only go up one size and/or down one size, and finding someone local to adjust it...well, they don't exist. So I'd have to get creative with that one, but I love the brand and last horse of the same breed also went well in his.

I have no idea what to do

Saddles here aren't cheap (like $1500 for an '06 model Bates in good condition and $3 to $5k for a nice used Amerigo) so I don't want to play around too much, but some places do offer trials...but the shipping is about $100 or more. I'm fine with spending some money, but don't want to throw away too many thousands of dollars.

Have you tried a WOW? Some people hate them but if you like them they are a godsend for young horses. You can buy a pump and adjust them for yourself. They seem to work well on Iberians. I have shipped one overseas before, sold on ebay, some people will. They won't work if you love close contact saddles.
.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Have you tried a WOW? Some people hate them but if you like them they are a godsend for young horses. You can buy a pump and adjust them for yourself. They seem to work well on Iberians. I have shipped one overseas before, sold on ebay, some people will. They won't work if you love close contact saddles.
.

I do like close contact saddles.

I did think about a WOW, but it'd be very difficult to find one that I could try or take on trial before buying.

Edit: My thing with the WOW is that they're such marmite saddles. I know my general saddle preferences, so could probably figure out how to configure one. Still though, I don't know that I wouldn't hate it, and I'm not sure that the resell would be as easy here.

I like the idea it something self adjustable though. That's a fantastic idea for a young horse.

As much as I want to get this horse backed and "out the door" I don't feel as though he's quite physically ready, so I have a bit of time to find something.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Please may I have some weight advice? From some angles Dex looks rather porky and definitely has a rounded belly, and from some he looks okay - however I cannot feel ribs which is the bit thats worrying me!
I keep thinking in circles between him needing to eat enough to gain muscle and as he's still growing (he's 4yo early May) and not wanting too much weight on baby joints, plus the grass will be incoming soon.

The below photos are from yesterday, he weighs 656kg on the weighbridge and has 15kg of hay/haylage mix overnight, a literal handful of Pure Feeds Fibre Balance as they all get a bucket feed, and then he is out on grass for 8hrs a day, not that there is a huge amount of grass. It's definitely coming through as all their grass glands are slightly up, but the bottom third of the field is quite muddy and then the rest isn't rich or too plentiful as they have been out on it all winter.
WWYD?

Perspective here has made his head look massive

 

[ihatework]

I'd keep doing what you are doing ASBMO but maybe consider the full balancer ration rather than the handful (or replace with balancer rather than the fibre hybrid).
He looks fine.
Under muscled but not excessively fat and on a horse of that age/type the muscle will take time.

 

[splashgirl45]

He looks fine to me, as you start to do a bit more his tummy should tighten up..

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I'd keep doing what you are doing ASBMO but maybe consider the full balancer ration rather than the handful (or replace with balancer rather than the fibre hybrid).
He looks fine.
Under muscled but not excessively fat and on a horse of that age/type the muscle will take time.

He looks fine to me, as you start to do a bit more his tummy should tighten up..

Ok great, thank you both! It's such an easy thing to overthink! Especially as he is in little work so like you say, the muscle is lacking.

Actually, having just looked, their Balance feed would last a decent amount of time at the full feeding rate. I only picked this feed as the yard does a bulk order from Pure which made life easier and it seemed the lowest MJ/kg and sugar/starch combined % other than Pure Easy which was super low in Lysine. I think I'll switch onto that instead then.

 

[Belmont]

The below photos are from yesterday, he weighs 656kg on the weighbridge and has 15kg of hay/haylage mix overnight, a literal handful of Pure Feeds Fibre Balance as they all get a bucket feed, and then he is out on grass for 8hrs a day, not that there is a huge amount of grass. It's definitely coming through as all their grass glands are slightly up, but the bottom third of the field is quite muddy and then the rest isn't rich or too plentiful as they have been out on it all winter.
WWYD?

I'd cut down his forage over night. The general rule is 2% bodyweight in forage per day (1.5% for good doers, 2.5% for poor doers). If you can't feel his ribs then he's already overweight, but as he's still growing, then 2% I'd think is about right. Maths isn't my strong point but I make that to be that he needs approximately 13kg per day total. So if he's already having 15kg just overnight, plus grass, albeit poor grazing (will still be at least 1-2kg over the 8hours, possibly more and will increase) he's over the 2% guide.
Hope that makes sense and doesn't offend - I own good doers and know how careful I need to be, especially at this time of year!

 

[pixie]

I've just bought a lightly backed 13.2hh 3 year old irish cob. I wasn't planning on buying a baby, but I saw his face and had to try him. Ridden photo is from when I tried him out. Field photo is from when he first arrived. For reference, I'm 5ft3 and 9 stone. He is a lot narrower than my (shorter) welshie and my legs seem to reach a lot further down! He is bum high, so he might grow another hand yet. He is very sweet, curious and keen. Loves being with people. The plan is to do a lot of in hand work with him and short rides 1-2 times a week. Just introducing him to everything slowly, I'm in no rush. Probably won't canter him for a year while he is still growing.

One thing that we do need to work on is him not standing still for me to mount. I have not yet been able to do this unassisted. He is just super keen to get moving, and I'm old and not very quick! I'm doing a lot of in hand work with him, getting him listening to my voice, doing lots of walk/halt transitions, and trying to get him used to standing still once we have halted. Any other suggestions?

 

[IrishMilo]

I've just bought a lightly backed 13.2hh 3 year old irish cob. I wasn't planning on buying a baby, but I saw his face and had to try him. Ridden photo is from when I tried him out. Field photo is from when he first arrived. For reference, I'm 5ft3 and 9 stone. He is a lot narrower than my (shorter) welshie and my legs seem to reach a lot further down! He is bum high, so he might grow another hand yet. He is very sweet, curious and keen. Loves being with people. The plan is to do a lot of in hand work with him and short rides 1-2 times a week. Just introducing him to everything slowly, I'm in no rush. Probably won't canter him for a year while he is still growing.

One thing that we do need to work on is him not standing still for me to mount. I have not yet been able to do this unassisted. He is just super keen to get moving, and I'm old and not very quick! I'm doing a lot of in hand work with him, getting him listening to my voice, doing lots of walk/halt transitions, and trying to get him used to standing still once we have halted. Any other suggestions?

He's a proper cutie! What a smasher.

I'd recommend putting your stirrups about 3 holes, it'll help your security!

 

[pixie]

Yeah, the person who backed him has much longer legs. Those were on the shortest hole and looped round! My own stirrups are a much more sensible length

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

So Dex feels SUPER humpy when I first sit on and for about one lap and then feels alright again, started when last saddle was making him a little sore (which I then quickly stopped riding in).
Saddle fitter came today to fit something else, all good, but said he looked croup low - measured and he's 17.1hh in front, 16.3hh behind.
Not sure if humpy-ness is him saying he doesn't want to do it, or it's because he thinks the saddle is going to hurt initially as he's had 10 days off and only had the new saddle on once with fitter today.

WWYD, keep ticking over, give a month off and see if he levels out? Body worker comes every 4 weeks and he isn't showing any signs of tightnes or soreness anywhere other than where the other saddle was a bit too long which was easily resolved as caught it very early, so physically is in good shape in that respect.

I'm happy either way, I'm in no rush, just not sure what's for the best.

 

[maya2008]

So Dex feels SUPER humpy when I first sit on and for about one lap and then feels alright again, started when last saddle was making him a little sore (which I then quickly stopped riding in).
Saddle fitter came today to fit something else, all good, but said he looked croup low - measured and he's 17.1hh in front, 16.3hh behind.
Not sure if humpy-ness is him saying he doesn't want to do it, or it's because he thinks the saddle is going to hurt initially as he's had 10 days off and only had the new saddle on once with fitter today.

WWYD, keep ticking over, give a month off and see if he levels out? Body worker comes every 4 weeks and he isn't showing any signs of tightnes or soreness anywhere other than where the other saddle was a bit too long which was easily resolved as caught it very early, so physically is in good shape in that respect.

I'm happy either way, I'm in no rush, just not sure what's for the best.

Soreness completely gone from the old saddle? If so, I would give it a few rides in the new saddle and see if the worries go away as he realises it’s not an issue. If not, I would give time off and wait until it has gone. I also would hack lots and do very little in the arena while he’s unbalanced through uneven growth. Arena work places a lot of stress on a still growing body.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Soreness completely gone from the old saddle? If so, I would give it a few rides in the new saddle and see if the worries go away as he realises it’s not an issue. If not, I would give time off and wait until it has gone. I also would hack lots and do very little in the arena while he’s unbalanced through uneven growth. Arena work places a lot of stress on a still growing body.

Soreness 100% gone, he didn’t get to the point of fully sore but had started to ‘protect’ the area. Body worker came out 3 days after the session to double check that and then he had 10 days off.

Noted on the hacking front, I think I’m just going to have to brave going alone as it’s proving harder to get people willing to hack with a baby than I thought, even though he’s absolutely foot perfect! He's been sat on about 16 times total and 3 were hacks, others were just pottering in the school for 10 mins, he's really not doing much as I am conscious that he is so big.

 

[maya2008]

Soreness 100% gone, he didn’t get to the point of fully sore but had started to ‘protect’ the area. Body worker came out 3 days after the session to double check that and then he had 10 days off.

Noted on the hacking front, I think I’m just going to have to brave going alone as it’s proving harder to get people willing to hack with a baby than I thought, even though he’s absolutely foot perfect! He's been sat on about 16 times total and 3 were hacks, others were just pottering in the school for 10 mins, he's really not doing much as I am conscious that he is so big.

Have you got a person who could walk with you? Or could you ask around locally for a hacking buddy and take transport to them/they come to you - perhaps at weekends?

It’s certainly possible to hack a baby solo - I’ve done it on 3 year olds before I had my children. I just got off and walked them past anything that scared them.

 

[TheHairyOne]

I havnt had a baby in ages, and was trying to find something a bit older, but I saw his face and he has accidentally fallen into my field!

Was rather shell shocked for the first week having never left home, then we had the crazy storm with the rain before so has only been doing the basics of coming in and going out. Super people friendly though and leads ok, just have to sort evetything else.

Meet my new boy, a WB who is only just 3 and hopefully will enjoy dressage with me in a few years - but we will try and both enjoy the journey where ever it ends up.

 

[ihatework]

He’s cute THO, is that a silver/grey tail?

 

[ihatework]

So Dex feels SUPER humpy when I first sit on and for about one lap and then feels alright again, started when last saddle was making him a little sore (which I then quickly stopped riding in).
Saddle fitter came today to fit something else, all good, but said he looked croup low - measured and he's 17.1hh in front, 16.3hh behind.
Not sure if humpy-ness is him saying he doesn't want to do it, or it's because he thinks the saddle is going to hurt initially as he's had 10 days off and only had the new saddle on once with fitter today.

WWYD, keep ticking over, give a month off and see if he levels out? Body worker comes every 4 weeks and he isn't showing any signs of tightnes or soreness anywhere other than where the other saddle was a bit too long which was easily resolved as caught it very early, so physically is in good shape in that respect.

I'm happy either way, I'm in no rush, just not sure what's for the best.

I’d do 5-10 mins of in-hand work with saddle on before getting on and see if that helps.
Agree if you have start/stop/turn installed then try getting out of the arena a little more, doesn’t need to be far.

 

[TheHairyOne]

He’s cute THO, is that a silver/grey tail?

It is! Quite unusual, but my friends are laughing about how only I could get a bay horse with a tail that needs the same treatment as my (mostly white) coloured boy.

 

[Ahrena]

I’m very chuffed with my rising 4 year old.
She’s been pretty tricky - quite an anxious sort when lots is going on around her and she’s been quite…spicy on the long reins to put it mildly but always very good out walking in hand.

Decided to throw caution to the wind and just get on and start hacking. She’s been a dream ever since and has become super affectionate! She’s been surprisingly good, going out alone even in some serious winds and she’s ace in traffic.

I’m delighted with her, I’ve been worried as she’s been the trickiest to back that I’ve dealt with and it’s knocked my confidence. After barely riding for several years, it feels amazing to be back on a horse.

Planning on lots and lots of in-hand showing this year and in-hand clinics just to get her out and seeing different things as consistent exposure seems to really help her. I usually think less is more with a youngster but having to think outside the box with this one.

 

[nettle]

He’s cute THO, is that a silver/grey tail?

It does look like it! Who’s he by? The silver gene is in some warmbloods.