Backing 3/4yr olds

[AppyLover1996]

I remember several years ago when I helped a friend back one of her young horses. He was a clever fella and always willing to please, never said no to anything and unfortunately one day there was a freak accident when he was being tacked up, which resulted in a broken bridle, him loosing two teeth and having a massive fear of anything going on/over his head or in his mouth.

It took quite a while but he did eventually get over his fear, but he never was too pleased about the bridle going on. She even switched to bitless to see if that would help him relax and he had the same reaction with a bitless bridle x After having all the tests done on him to rule out pain etc, the vet gently took her hand and explained that some trauma just sticks with them, no matter what we do as riders/owners and that all we can do is allow them the extra time to come to the realisation that everything will be fine x

 

[daffy44]

I used to work as a backing rider, and I've backed several of my own horses too. One scary incident can stay with a horse for a very long time, if the saddle has only been an issue since a traumatic incident, then the chances of pain are very slim, unless the horse also had a big fall etc during the trauma. Its far more likely to be the excellent memory of the horse, and you just have to give them time, patience and confidence to overcome the bad experience.

 

[Caol Ila]

At least when you’ve done it yourself, you know what happened. As opposed to, “I don’t know why she’s scared of bridges, saddles, etc.” Even if you do feel like a moron. Well, I do anyway.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I used to work as a backing rider, and I've backed several of my own horses too. One scary incident can stay with a horse for a very long time, if the saddle has only been an issue since a traumatic incident, then the chances of pain are very slim, unless the horse also had a big fall etc during the trauma. Its far more likely to be the excellent memory of the horse, and you just have to give them time, patience and confidence to overcome the bad experience.

Thank-you that is reassuring. I did wonder if she was hurt while bronccing. She didn't fall but did throw spectacuar shapes. But that was weeks ago and the reaction is very intermittent. And only ever in the context of a saddle going on. She is athletic in the field, she moves well untacked. Once riders are on-board she moves freely most of the time, though is not that sharp off the leg and needs to be more foward. bh but both Joe and Trainer B feel that's just a baby horse thing.

I am happy to be patient and hope that eventually she'll get over it. I had a rescue dog once who never ever got used to bare feet. I assumed she was kicked.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

At least when you’ve done it yourself, you know what happened. As opposed to, “I don’t know why she’s scared of bridges, saddles, etc.” Even if you do feel like a moron. Well, I do anyway.

Yes I feel like a total idiot. BUt at the end of the day, sh1t happens. I failed to antipate that her intense interest in the other horse in the arena meant she had not noticed me tacking her up. (she'd certainly notice it now, no matter what else was going on!!) And so when she moved and it moved too, she exploded. And then it chased and 'bit' her. She's had a very dim view ever since.

 

[daffy44]

Thank-you that is reassuring. I did wonder if she was hurt while bronccing. She didn't fall but did throw spectacuar shapes. But that was weeks ago and the reaction is very intermittent. And only ever in the context of a saddle going on. She is athletic in the field, she moves well untacked. Once riders are on-board she moves freely most of the time, though is not that sharp off the leg and needs to be more foward. bh but both Joe and Trainer B feel that's just a baby horse thing.

I am happy to be patient and hope that eventually she'll get over it. I had a rescue dog once who never ever got used to bare feet. I assumed she was kicked.

Not in front of the leg and needing to be more forward is totally a baby horse thing, keep gently chipping away at it, but dont worry about it, its normal. In real terms, its only been five minutes, ten weeks under saddle is nothing, getting over a difficult experience takes time, just be patient.

 

[maya2008]

Sounds great Asha. I am taking it slooooooooooooow.

Myka is still funny abut the saddle and every so often just says 'nooooooo'. After 10 weeks + under saddle I still have to tack up slowly, carefully, doing up the girth a mm at a time some days. Other days she can cope ok. It's always worse after a couple of days off so day 5 she is great, then 2 days off and day 1 of the next cycle of work we are back to 'OMG it;s A SADDLE'

I am beginning to ponder the pain rabbit hole but surely if a saddle being placed on your back was painful, a rider getting on would be too. She does not give two hoots about being hopped on bareback. And is fine to mount once the saddle is on. Has never reacted negatively to being mounted. Stands calmly and quietly.

And while she hates the girth too when combined with a saddle, she is ok girthed up with a roller.

And the reaction looks so much like fear.

And it all started that day when the saddle 'attacked' her wen the stirrip smacked her in the face. She went ftom zero issues to traumatised in a split second!

Urghh if only they could just tell you what they were struggling with.

I take a slightly different approach to ‘issues’ due to having a background of taking on ponies with trauma and behavioural issues - latest one arrived in March and was snoozing untied while being tacked up yesterday, having arrived with dangerous behaviour on the ground and specifically around being tacked up. So I can tell you with confidence that my suggestions below work, IF there is nothing physical wrong. If there is, nothing you do will work.

My caveat to the above is that she has already been with Joe and I would have expected something that is purely behavioural to have been gone by the time she came home, given he does absolutely know what he is doing. That’s not an absolute - our extremely sharp and very traumatised Welsh D came from a good professional who was unable to help her but it is very much worth bearing in mind.

So, IF it is just the one bad experience and her reactive nature is causing her to hold onto it, then:
- First you need to break it down to find out exactly where the issue is. ‘Saddle’ is too big. There are so many parts to putting a saddle on that could cause the problem. You have the lifting it up to go over the back, you have the feel of it on them, you have the girth hanging down and then the pressure of the girth being done up (which intensifies the feeling on their back) and then the stirrups. You need to backtrack to something she doesn’t react to (the roller) and slowly add things to see when you get tension. I would start without the stirrups. Roller on/off. Bareback pad on/off (bareback pads extend further back - is she reacting to something touching her back beyond the girth area). WHEN do you see the reaction? Borrow a treeless saddle and pop that on/off. Then treed saddle. You are looking for tension. What changes between the roller and the treed saddle? What is ok and what is not? You want to catch slight tension - getting to the point where she is uncomfortable and beyond ‘mildly wary/unsure’ is going too far. If you make it all the way to saddle WITHOUT stirrups, then you know that is the issue. So then you add stirrups to the roller - tiny light kids’ plastic stirrups with really short leathers (or just twine). Ones that can flap to death but not actually hurt. And then you slowly make them longer and attach them to increasingly more saddle-like things until there is no reaction.

A lot of the above (maybe not breaking it down completely) you’ve probably tried. The pro I got our Welsh D from certainly had. So why did we succeed when she had failed? We changed the association. Took fear and replaced it with, ‘Oh! Yummy! Yes please!’

Food is the most powerful motivator there is. It has to be high enough value and it has to be used with good timing, but it can completely change a horse’s association with an activity or experience - and that change will be, with time, permanent. You overwrite the fear response in the brain and replace it with something positive.

I use it because it is a kind way of changing that association, and because I am a small female with dodgy joints who absolutely cannot hold on to anything.

So I would break down the problem until I found the specific issue and then clicker train that issue. If it was fine to do up a saddle without stirrups for example, I would get very light stirrups with tiny leathers that could only hit the saddle and clicker train around them (get her to touch them, click, treat until positive reactions only. Touch horse all over with them, click, treat (every time they touch her). Until she is calm and happy and only thinking about the treat. Bounce them gently off her with them swinging so nothing hurts and it is just pressure but they are moving - again; click and treat for each touch. Pop them on the saddle - click, treat. Move on the saddle - click, treat. Gradually lengthen them, switch over to your stirrups etc etc. Make her WANT them. ‘Oh goody, pop my saddle on because I want my treat. Now stirrups. Yes, more treats!’ Is what you want to create. Then in time you reduce the treats down to one polo once the saddle is on. And eventually she won’t even need that. Our very reactive mare only needs to be shown the whip now to be sure it’s ok before anyone mounts and no longer needs treats for anything. She is positive and happy about tack and also willing to tell us if something isn’t right. In my experience anything really deep seated takes 2-4 months of daily sessions. Every session should show an improvement, with measurable progress by the end of each week.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Thanks Maya2008, that is very helpful.

I am keeping an open mind but I do think it's trauma not pain.

Joe got to the point where he was sending so long every session on the saddle that he started thinking this has moved from trauma to learned behaviour and so he started tying her up to tack her up. He normally does everything to do with saddling while allowing the horse's feet to move, using approach retreat. Ie present saddle she begins to move around him - keep it there till she stops moving, move saddle away (release), repeat till she stands still with saddle present. Then lift saddle to wither height - repeat till she is standing still with it at wither height then remove. Then lift saddle onto back - and hold it there whle she moves till she is still - remove. Repeat. Etc etc etc

Everytime he would get to the point where she was stationary but unrestrained for every step. But it just took too long and he said he felt has become more behavioural. So he tied her up and then did the same but she was no longer able to just circle for ages so it cut a lot of the time down. She was still not where he wants her to be when she came home.

Re where the issue is- I htink it is a general suspicion of all-things-saddle. I think it is anticipatory anxiety about what the saddle will 'do' to her, because the incident involved she saddle chasing and 'biting' her - stirrup catching her in the face and injuring her. so she just does not like anything about it, until she is exposed to it and then realises nothing bad is happening, so she relaxes.

Using a saddle pad with a roller fully girthed up is not an issue at all ever.

I tack her up daily in the stable now whether I ride or not. Once the saddle is involved every step is an issue. Seeing it. Standing with it where I stand to tack up, lifiting it as if to put it on her. Placing it on her. Attaching the stirrup to one side. Lifting the stirrup to the other side so she feels it. Each new hole.

Every step is done approach-retreat till she does not react in any way. No stepping away. No flinching. No ears back. No raised head or snort. No nothing. Repeat a few times with no reaction before moving onto the next step. I have aso bought a girth you can do up incrementally so it's not 1 hole at a time which did not allow me to break it down as much as I'd like. Eventually we get the whole sequence done while she remains calm. But the next time we have to do it over again. I think clicker is a good idea to shift from tolerating to enjoying!

Some days are much better than others - today for example she barely reacted at all. But then today for the very first time in 3 week, she broncced when I was weighting the stirrup and leaning over having passed all Joe's previous 'pre-flight checks'. Leaning over is another pre-flight check and it worked the way it was supposed to. I was here:



Leaning over and feeling down the other side where my leg would be, patting her on the bum before the leg swings over. So when she started humping/broncing I could just step off, do some more groundwork then start the mounting sequence again.

Today she 'failed' at that point twice before she stood relaxed and calm as I stood in one stirrup and weighted the saddle and felt all over her from that position. Which means that check is still necessary but is disappointing as that's the first time in a long time she has reacted beyond the saddle going on. And makes me think that eventually she'll pass that step but 'fail' the swinging leg over step. And that would be where it gets unsafe as once I am astride getting off is no longer so easy without scaring her or being thrown.

There is a school of thought on my yard that I am 'faffing' and to send her to a pro who would just get legged up and get on with it and by now she should be w/t/c and out hacking. That she is not doing anything any young sharp competition horse does not do. That a sticky bum and getting her foward would be far better for her than what me and Joe are doing.

I don't agree but I am not so arrogant as to ignore the opinion of people who have successfully backed hundreds of competition-bred hot horses to my 5 native types! So just putting that out out there in case anyone agrees and can give me a rationale for how I may be creating problems, not solving them by giving her far too much time to think about everything! Or that what may have been genuine fear is now just evasion and there is a place for riding through, which I am not skilled enough to do. That she needs miles under her belt and a few 'wet blanket' rides.

I have a lesson with Joe on Tuesday then am running camp with him Thur- Sun and Myka is demo horse for the camp so I have the opportuity to get some honest feedback from him about where from here. Which feels very timely!!

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Could you buy a cheaper saddle that can be damaged without upset and leave it over her stable door? Currently even though you are taking it super slowly and waiting on her buy in, she is finding it mentally difficult, and once she does accept then another question is asked and the saddle gets closer to her and then attached to her. If it just lives over the stable door for a week it shows her that its presence doesn't mean uncomfortable processes, having to self regulate, increasing pressure asks. She is however likely to knock it off and/or chew it, which inquisitiveness is good but it does mean I'd only use something I'm happy to bin!

The difference in a horse that hasn't been pushed above threshold without being asked if they're keeping up with the programme mentally, and one that has, is massive - their attitude, confidence, work ethic, willingness and ability to try without fear is just night and day, so please don't loose faith, you are doing the right thing.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Actually I do have a broken saddle I can use.

 

[maya2008]

Thanks Maya2008, that is very helpful.

I am keeping an open mind but I do think it's trauma not pain.

Joe got to the point where he was sending so long every session on the saddle that he started thinking this has moved from trauma to learned behaviour and so he started tying her up to tack her up. He normally does everything to do with saddling while allowing the horse's feet to move, using approach retreat. Ie present saddle she begins to move around him - keep it there till she stops moving, move saddle away (release), repeat till she stands still with saddle present. Then lift saddle to wither height - repeat till she is standing still with it at wither height then remove. Then lift saddle onto back - and hold it there whle she moves till she is still - remove. Repeat. Etc etc etc

Everytime he would get to the point where she was stationary but unrestrained for every step. But it just took too long and he said he felt has become more behavioural. So he tied her up and then did the same but she was no longer able to just circle for ages so it cut a lot of the time down. She was still not where he wants her to be when she came home.

Re where the issue is- I htink it is a general suspicion of all-things-saddle. I think it is anticipatory anxiety about what the saddle will 'do' to her, because the incident involved she saddle chasing and 'biting' her - stirrup catching her in the face and injuring her. so she just does not like anything about it, until she is exposed to it and then realises nothing bad is happening, so she relaxes.

Using a saddle pad with a roller fully girthed up is not an issue at all ever.

I tack her up daily in the stable now whether I ride or not. Once the saddle is involved every step is an issue. Seeing it. Standing with it where I stand to tack up, lifiting it as if to put it on her. Placing it on her. Attaching the stirrup to one side. Lifting the stirrup to the other side so she feels it. Each new hole.

Every step is done approach-retreat till she does not react in any way. No stepping away. No flinching. No ears back. No raised head or snort. No nothing. Repeat a few times with no reaction before moving onto the next step. I have aso bought a girth you can do up incrementally so it's not 1 hole at a time which did not allow me to break it down as much as I'd like. Eventually we get the whole sequence done while she remains calm. But the next time we have to do it over again. I think clicker is a good idea to shift from tolerating to enjoying!

Some days are much better than others - today for example she barely reacted at all. But then today for the very first time in 3 week, she broncced when I was weighting the stirrup and leaning over having passed all Joe's previous 'pre-flight checks'. Leaning over is another pre-flight check and it worked the way it was supposed to. I was here:

View attachment 160251

Leaning over and feeling down the other side where my leg would be, patting her on the bum before the leg swings over. So when she started humping/broncing I could just step off, do some more groundwork then start the mounting sequence again.

Today she 'failed' at that point twice before she stood relaxed and calm as I stood in one stirrup and weighted the saddle and felt all over her from that position. Which means that check is still necessary but is disappointing as that's the first time in a long time she has reacted beyond the saddle going on. And makes me think that eventually she'll pass that step but 'fail' the swinging leg over step. And that would be where it gets unsafe as once I am astride getting off is no longer so easy without scaring her or being thrown.

There is a school of thought on my yard that I am 'faffing' and to send her to a pro who would just get legged up and get on with it and by now she should be w/t/c and out hacking. That she is not doing anything any young sharp competition horse does not do. That a sticky bum and getting her foward would be far better for her than what me and Joe are doing.

I don't agree but I am not so arrogant as to ignore the opinion of people who have successfully backed hundreds of competition-bred hot horses to my 5 native types! So just putting that out out there in case anyone agrees and can give me a rationale for how I may be creating problems, not solving them by giving her far too much time to think about everything! Or that what may have been genuine fear is now just evasion and there is a place for riding through, which I am not skilled enough to do. That she needs miles under her belt and a few 'wet blanket' rides.

I have a lesson with Joe on Tuesday then am running camp with him Thur- Sun and Myka is demo horse for the camp so I have the opportuity to get some honest feedback from him about where from here. Which feels very timely!!

I don’t believe in learned behaviour the way most people mean it - I have found it is more a learned association. If you desensitise and nothing bad happens, all you are teaching is that most of the time it is neutral but at least once it was bad. Change the association to good and you change the behaviour.

If she is as wary as you describe I would do it with two people if possible and I would honestly start with a bucket load of carrots cut into small strips. Saddle in sight, start feeding carrots. Saddle out of sight. Stop. Associate saddle with carrots. Then once she is happy to see it go for saddle touching her nose, carrots. Whenever saddle is touching her, carrots. You could feed them all through the tacking up process if you absolutely have to ride in a saddle right now (I wouldn’t) and then stop when it is done up. You need a big happy feeling boost to change her opinion of it.

I personally wouldn’t regard her as broken in at this stage. If she was happy with a bareback pad or a treeless instead, I might ride in that and keep working on the saddle separately. So long as she is calm and you feel confident doing that of course!

There is a lady in Devon (feral to family) who recently had lots of success with a horse who needed a slightly different approach to saddle/mounting issues. The case is documented on her Facebook page. Tricky horses that need time and their own individual approach are her speciality.

 

[TheMule]

Thanks Maya2008, that is very helpful.

I am keeping an open mind but I do think it's trauma not pain.

Joe got to the point where he was sending so long every session on the saddle that he started thinking this has moved from trauma to learned behaviour and so he started tying her up to tack her up. He normally does everything to do with saddling while allowing the horse's feet to move, using approach retreat. Ie present saddle she begins to move around him - keep it there till she stops moving, move saddle away (release), repeat till she stands still with saddle present. Then lift saddle to wither height - repeat till she is standing still with it at wither height then remove. Then lift saddle onto back - and hold it there whle she moves till she is still - remove. Repeat. Etc etc etc

Everytime he would get to the point where she was stationary but unrestrained for every step. But it just took too long and he said he felt has become more behavioural. So he tied her up and then did the same but she was no longer able to just circle for ages so it cut a lot of the time down. She was still not where he wants her to be when she came home.

Re where the issue is- I htink it is a general suspicion of all-things-saddle. I think it is anticipatory anxiety about what the saddle will 'do' to her, because the incident involved she saddle chasing and 'biting' her - stirrup catching her in the face and injuring her. so she just does not like anything about it, until she is exposed to it and then realises nothing bad is happening, so she relaxes.

Using a saddle pad with a roller fully girthed up is not an issue at all ever.

I tack her up daily in the stable now whether I ride or not. Once the saddle is involved every step is an issue. Seeing it. Standing with it where I stand to tack up, lifiting it as if to put it on her. Placing it on her. Attaching the stirrup to one side. Lifting the stirrup to the other side so she feels it. Each new hole.

Every step is done approach-retreat till she does not react in any way. No stepping away. No flinching. No ears back. No raised head or snort. No nothing. Repeat a few times with no reaction before moving onto the next step. I have aso bought a girth you can do up incrementally so it's not 1 hole at a time which did not allow me to break it down as much as I'd like. Eventually we get the whole sequence done while she remains calm. But the next time we have to do it over again. I think clicker is a good idea to shift from tolerating to enjoying!

Some days are much better than others - today for example she barely reacted at all. But then today for the very first time in 3 week, she broncced when I was weighting the stirrup and leaning over having passed all Joe's previous 'pre-flight checks'. Leaning over is another pre-flight check and it worked the way it was supposed to. I was here:

View attachment 160251

Leaning over and feeling down the other side where my leg would be, patting her on the bum before the leg swings over. So when she started humping/broncing I could just step off, do some more groundwork then start the mounting sequence again.

Today she 'failed' at that point twice before she stood relaxed and calm as I stood in one stirrup and weighted the saddle and felt all over her from that position. Which means that check is still necessary but is disappointing as that's the first time in a long time she has reacted beyond the saddle going on. And makes me think that eventually she'll pass that step but 'fail' the swinging leg over step. And that would be where it gets unsafe as once I am astride getting off is no longer so easy without scaring her or being thrown.

There is a school of thought on my yard that I am 'faffing' and to send her to a pro who would just get legged up and get on with it and by now she should be w/t/c and out hacking. That she is not doing anything any young sharp competition horse does not do. That a sticky bum and getting her foward would be far better for her than what me and Joe are doing.

I don't agree but I am not so arrogant as to ignore the opinion of people who have successfully backed hundreds of competition-bred hot horses to my 5 native types! So just putting that out out there in case anyone agrees and can give me a rationale for how I may be creating problems, not solving them by giving her far too much time to think about everything! Or that what may have been genuine fear is now just evasion and there is a place for riding through, which I am not skilled enough to do. That she needs miles under her belt and a few 'wet blanket' rides.

I have a lesson with Joe on Tuesday then am running camp with him Thur- Sun and Myka is demo horse for the camp so I have the opportuity to get some honest feedback from him about where from here. Which feels very timely!!

I think your approach is the right one and hopefully she will come around, she has already improved a lot. I did have tone that was very difficult to saddle and his was pure fear, but he really didn’t ever progress to making a predictable riding horse

 

[TheMule]

Big progress here as I had a helper yesterday so used the opportunity to lean over my 2 properly. They've only just started up again after their mini-break but they’ve brought their prior learning with them. Hopefully the mule will get out on sone short hacks in the next couple of weeks and that will do him. Enya will do a bit more arena based work as she's a touch reactive and I don’t want to risk her on the roads with no right eye.

 

[McGrools]

I am in a similar situation to you AE in that i have a 4 yr old who is very awkward with her feet. She is a barefoot TB who has had repeated abcesses on her hinds that i have had a hell of a time trying to poultice or treat. The more I have been trying to do the slowly slowly daily handling the worse it has got. To the point I feel like I am just exacerbating the problem and almost training the reaction. She snatches and moves away constantly. And she has form
for pulling back and snapping whatever she is tied to. It’s like Groundhog Day every day and is just not progressing, it’s been the best part of a year now. There is no chance of being shod without vet sedation.
The only way I can get compliance for handling, rasping is with a helper holding a lick but that’s a pita as I am on my own most of the time.
She does seem much sounder at the minute and I’m hacking short routes daily in the hope self trimming and speedy growth will toughen her feet fast.

 

[Asha]

Thanks Maya2008, that is very helpful.

I am keeping an open mind but I do think it's trauma not pain.

Joe got to the point where he was sending so long every session on the saddle that he started thinking this has moved from trauma to learned behaviour and so he started tying her up to tack her up. He normally does everything to do with saddling while allowing the horse's feet to move, using approach retreat. Ie present saddle she begins to move around him - keep it there till she stops moving, move saddle away (release), repeat till she stands still with saddle present. Then lift saddle to wither height - repeat till she is standing still with it at wither height then remove. Then lift saddle onto back - and hold it there whle she moves till she is still - remove. Repeat. Etc etc etc

Everytime he would get to the point where she was stationary but unrestrained for every step. But it just took too long and he said he felt has become more behavioural. So he tied her up and then did the same but she was no longer able to just circle for ages so it cut a lot of the time down. She was still not where he wants her to be when she came home.

Re where the issue is- I htink it is a general suspicion of all-things-saddle. I think it is anticipatory anxiety about what the saddle will 'do' to her, because the incident involved she saddle chasing and 'biting' her - stirrup catching her in the face and injuring her. so she just does not like anything about it, until she is exposed to it and then realises nothing bad is happening, so she relaxes.

Using a saddle pad with a roller fully girthed up is not an issue at all ever.

I tack her up daily in the stable now whether I ride or not. Once the saddle is involved every step is an issue. Seeing it. Standing with it where I stand to tack up, lifiting it as if to put it on her. Placing it on her. Attaching the stirrup to one side. Lifting the stirrup to the other side so she feels it. Each new hole.

Every step is done approach-retreat till she does not react in any way. No stepping away. No flinching. No ears back. No raised head or snort. No nothing. Repeat a few times with no reaction before moving onto the next step. I have aso bought a girth you can do up incrementally so it's not 1 hole at a time which did not allow me to break it down as much as I'd like. Eventually we get the whole sequence done while she remains calm. But the next time we have to do it over again. I think clicker is a good idea to shift from tolerating to enjoying!

Some days are much better than others - today for example she barely reacted at all. But then today for the very first time in 3 week, she broncced when I was weighting the stirrup and leaning over having passed all Joe's previous 'pre-flight checks'. Leaning over is another pre-flight check and it worked the way it was supposed to. I was here:

View attachment 160251

Leaning over and feeling down the other side where my leg would be, patting her on the bum before the leg swings over. So when she started humping/broncing I could just step off, do some more groundwork then start the mounting sequence again.

Today she 'failed' at that point twice before she stood relaxed and calm as I stood in one stirrup and weighted the saddle and felt all over her from that position. Which means that check is still necessary but is disappointing as that's the first time in a long time she has reacted beyond the saddle going on. And makes me think that eventually she'll pass that step but 'fail' the swinging leg over step. And that would be where it gets unsafe as once I am astride getting off is no longer so easy without scaring her or being thrown.

There is a school of thought on my yard that I am 'faffing' and to send her to a pro who would just get legged up and get on with it and by now she should be w/t/c and out hacking. That she is not doing anything any young sharp competition horse does not do. That a sticky bum and getting her foward would be far better for her than what me and Joe are doing.

I don't agree but I am not so arrogant as to ignore the opinion of people who have successfully backed hundreds of competition-bred hot horses to my 5 native types! So just putting that out out there in case anyone agrees and can give me a rationale for how I may be creating problems, not solving them by giving her far too much time to think about everything! Or that what may have been genuine fear is now just evasion and there is a place for riding through, which I am not skilled enough to do. That she needs miles under her belt and a few 'wet blanket' rides.

I have a lesson with Joe on Tuesday then am running camp with him Thur- Sun and Myka is demo horse for the camp so I have the opportuity to get some honest feedback from him about where from here. Which feels very timely!!

Fair play AE , you really are trying your best with her .
In your shoes I’d have a vet or/and a physio look her over . Just for peace of mind .
All that bronking/ humping could easily have tweaked something

 

[McGrools]

Thanks Maya2008, that is very helpful.

I am keeping an open mind but I do think it's trauma not pain.

Joe got to the point where he was sending so long every session on the saddle that he started thinking this has moved from trauma to learned behaviour and so he started tying her up to tack her up. He normally does everything to do with saddling while allowing the horse's feet to move, using approach retreat. Ie present saddle she begins to move around him - keep it there till she stops moving, move saddle away (release), repeat till she stands still with saddle present. Then lift saddle to wither height - repeat till she is standing still with it at wither height then remove. Then lift saddle onto back - and hold it there whle she moves till she is still - remove. Repeat. Etc etc etc

Everytime he would get to the point where she was stationary but unrestrained for every step. But it just took too long and he said he felt has become more behavioural. So he tied her up and then did the same but she was no longer able to just circle for ages so it cut a lot of the time down. She was still not where he wants her to be when she came home.

Re where the issue is- I htink it is a general suspicion of all-things-saddle. I think it is anticipatory anxiety about what the saddle will 'do' to her, because the incident involved she saddle chasing and 'biting' her - stirrup catching her in the face and injuring her. so she just does not like anything about it, until she is exposed to it and then realises nothing bad is happening, so she relaxes.

Using a saddle pad with a roller fully girthed up is not an issue at all ever.

I tack her up daily in the stable now whether I ride or not. Once the saddle is involved every step is an issue. Seeing it. Standing with it where I stand to tack up, lifiting it as if to put it on her. Placing it on her. Attaching the stirrup to one side. Lifting the stirrup to the other side so she feels it. Each new hole.

Every step is done approach-retreat till she does not react in any way. No stepping away. No flinching. No ears back. No raised head or snort. No nothing. Repeat a few times with no reaction before moving onto the next step. I have aso bought a girth you can do up incrementally so it's not 1 hole at a time which did not allow me to break it down as much as I'd like. Eventually we get the whole sequence done while she remains calm. But the next time we have to do it over again. I think clicker is a good idea to shift from tolerating to enjoying!

Some days are much better than others - today for example she barely reacted at all. But then today for the very first time in 3 week, she broncced when I was weighting the stirrup and leaning over having passed all Joe's previous 'pre-flight checks'. Leaning over is another pre-flight check and it worked the way it was supposed to. I was here:

View attachment 160251

Leaning over and feeling down the other side where my leg would be, patting her on the bum before the leg swings over. So when she started humping/broncing I could just step off, do some more groundwork then start the mounting sequence again.

Today she 'failed' at that point twice before she stood relaxed and calm as I stood in one stirrup and weighted the saddle and felt all over her from that position. Which means that check is still necessary but is disappointing as that's the first time in a long time she has reacted beyond the saddle going on. And makes me think that eventually she'll pass that step but 'fail' the swinging leg over step. And that would be where it gets unsafe as once I am astride getting off is no longer so easy without scaring her or being thrown.

There is a school of thought on my yard that I am 'faffing' and to send her to a pro who would just get legged up and get on with it and by now she should be w/t/c and out hacking. That she is not doing anything any young sharp competition horse does not do. That a sticky bum and getting her foward would be far better for her than what me and Joe are doing.

I don't agree but I am not so arrogant as to ignore the opinion of people who have successfully backed hundreds of competition-bred hot horses to my 5 native types! So just putting that out out there in case anyone agrees and can give me a rationale for how I may be creating problems, not solving them by giving her far too much time to think about everything! Or that what may have been genuine fear is now just evasion and there is a place for riding through, which I am not skilled enough to do. That she needs miles under her belt and a few 'wet blanket' rides.

I have a lesson with Joe on Tuesday then am running camp with him Thur- Sun and Myka is demo horse for the camp so I have the opportuity to get some honest feedback from him about where from here. Which feels very timely!!

Just a thought, if a saddle pad and roller isn’t an issue could you get hold of a small racing saddle and short stirrup leathers which wouldn’t be much bigger than the roller and see if she is ok with that? Polypad under. I really like them for being very light and unoffensive xx

 

[daffy44]

Thanks Maya2008, that is very helpful.

I am keeping an open mind but I do think it's trauma not pain.

Joe got to the point where he was sending so long every session on the saddle that he started thinking this has moved from trauma to learned behaviour and so he started tying her up to tack her up. He normally does everything to do with saddling while allowing the horse's feet to move, using approach retreat. Ie present saddle she begins to move around him - keep it there till she stops moving, move saddle away (release), repeat till she stands still with saddle present. Then lift saddle to wither height - repeat till she is standing still with it at wither height then remove. Then lift saddle onto back - and hold it there whle she moves till she is still - remove. Repeat. Etc etc etc

Everytime he would get to the point where she was stationary but unrestrained for every step. But it just took too long and he said he felt has become more behavioural. So he tied her up and then did the same but she was no longer able to just circle for ages so it cut a lot of the time down. She was still not where he wants her to be when she came home.

Re where the issue is- I htink it is a general suspicion of all-things-saddle. I think it is anticipatory anxiety about what the saddle will 'do' to her, because the incident involved she saddle chasing and 'biting' her - stirrup catching her in the face and injuring her. so she just does not like anything about it, until she is exposed to it and then realises nothing bad is happening, so she relaxes.

Using a saddle pad with a roller fully girthed up is not an issue at all ever.

I tack her up daily in the stable now whether I ride or not. Once the saddle is involved every step is an issue. Seeing it. Standing with it where I stand to tack up, lifiting it as if to put it on her. Placing it on her. Attaching the stirrup to one side. Lifting the stirrup to the other side so she feels it. Each new hole.

Every step is done approach-retreat till she does not react in any way. No stepping away. No flinching. No ears back. No raised head or snort. No nothing. Repeat a few times with no reaction before moving onto the next step. I have aso bought a girth you can do up incrementally so it's not 1 hole at a time which did not allow me to break it down as much as I'd like. Eventually we get the whole sequence done while she remains calm. But the next time we have to do it over again. I think clicker is a good idea to shift from tolerating to enjoying!

Some days are much better than others - today for example she barely reacted at all. But then today for the very first time in 3 week, she broncced when I was weighting the stirrup and leaning over having passed all Joe's previous 'pre-flight checks'. Leaning over is another pre-flight check and it worked the way it was supposed to. I was here:

View attachment 160251

Leaning over and feeling down the other side where my leg would be, patting her on the bum before the leg swings over. So when she started humping/broncing I could just step off, do some more groundwork then start the mounting sequence again.

Today she 'failed' at that point twice before she stood relaxed and calm as I stood in one stirrup and weighted the saddle and felt all over her from that position. Which means that check is still necessary but is disappointing as that's the first time in a long time she has reacted beyond the saddle going on. And makes me think that eventually she'll pass that step but 'fail' the swinging leg over step. And that would be where it gets unsafe as once I am astride getting off is no longer so easy without scaring her or being thrown.

There is a school of thought on my yard that I am 'faffing' and to send her to a pro who would just get legged up and get on with it and by now she should be w/t/c and out hacking. That she is not doing anything any young sharp competition horse does not do. That a sticky bum and getting her foward would be far better for her than what me and Joe are doing.

I don't agree but I am not so arrogant as to ignore the opinion of people who have successfully backed hundreds of competition-bred hot horses to my 5 native types! So just putting that out out there in case anyone agrees and can give me a rationale for how I may be creating problems, not solving them by giving her far too much time to think about everything! Or that what may have been genuine fear is now just evasion and there is a place for riding through, which I am not skilled enough to do. That she needs miles under her belt and a few 'wet blanket' rides.

I have a lesson with Joe on Tuesday then am running camp with him Thur- Sun and Myka is demo horse for the camp so I have the opportuity to get some honest feedback from him about where from here. Which feels very timely!!

I have backed a lot of different horses, natives, Irish, Tb and many sharp, reactive well bred competition warmbloods. The warmbloods can certainly be more reactive and quicker to escalate if it goes wrong, but I dont think you are going about things the wrong way. Yes, a very confident sticky rider could probably sit it out and ride through it, but it wouldnt be doing her any favours, thats not training her, and the issues will resurface. Much better to spend the time now getting her really confident and relaxed. Pre flight checks are essential, you dont even get on until every check can be carried out easily and confidently.

 

[TooOldForThis]

It's so interesting reading where everyone else is in their training, and issues and how to deal with them!

I am very much of the "do things really slowly and repeat until they're happy" camp. It has been particularly important with Storm - he had such an awful start that if I push him too hard he might tolerate it once but you won't a second time - then you end up going backwards and having to rebuild the trust. He's a lot better than he used to be, I can at least tell him off if he's being a tit, lol!

And again, I've also got people around me who think I'm faffing and to just get on with it, but they also acknowledge the journey he's had over the last three years. I want him to be happy and healthy for as long as possible so if that means faffing, so be it.

This weekend I took them out together - rode Brenin first, then when I had to get off to do a gate, I rode Storm and led Brenin. It was somewhere I hadn't ridden him before, and he was foot perfect. The only issue I had was, Brenin's reaction to anything is to spook first and ask questions later, Storm wants to go investigate, so I've got Storm wanting to lick the newly moved sheep feeders and some black wrapping (and the sheep, if they stood still long enough), while Brenin's trying to back off

On another note, Brenin turned 23 this weekend, the silly old sod

 

[TheHairyOne]

So pleased with my boy. He is going brilliantly at his training yard and i cant wait to get him home in just over a week.

He now loads without drama (that was a lot of drama before) and I am so pleased with this as it was a worry!



Ive also had my first few canters on him and he is so comfy for an unbalanced 4 year old.



Very excited for the future still. I am sure we will have some more 'exciting' things to report at some point.

Enya is a totally stunner, even with one eye, gorgeous horse

And no advice from me AE, but an old instuctor said to me once that repeating the same thing over and over if it wasnt working, and then one day expecting it to was probably unrealistic (paraphrased due to language. ).

 

[cosmic389]

Ooh how exciting! @TheHairyOne

Not a lot going on with Apache now that it's dark by 6pm. He's just ticking along and enjoying life. We have a little play at liberty after he's fed his dinner, and maybe a ground work session once a week.

He's a very good boy and I think becoming more patient by the day!

A little snippet from last night:

Vimeo

vimeo.com

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I used treats to tack up yesterday. It helped in that she was so distracted by treats that she objected much less to the tack. But had the effect I usually find with treats of making her so focused on treats that she was mentally very disconnected from me.

I realised I was not sure if you meant use treats indiscriminately to distract (like I use a lick for plaiting) or time treats to reinforce wanted reactions: ie only when not mugging me and feet were still. I did the latter. But even when only treating when she was polite, she wa still treat-focused and not tack-focused (good) or me-focused (bad). Plus I want her to understand and accept tack, not just be distracted from it.

Is this just temporary to break the association? I only used treats for tacking, and once we were in the arena she did eventually refocus on me. If I carry on using treats, I think I'd prefer to find a way to make tacking a pleasant experience that did not involve me - like using a hanging lick or something. So she is not asking for treats - they are just there when saddles go on?

I am open to ideas but a just feeding back how it went and the disadvantages I have found when using treats in training - mainly the mental disconnect from the horse.

 

[AppyLover1996]

I used treats to tack up yesterday. It helped in that she was so distracted by treats that she objected much less to the tack. But had the effect I usually find with treats of making her so focused on treats that she was mentally very disconnected from me.

I realised I was not sure if you meant use treats indiscriminately to distract (like I use a lick for plaiting) or time treats to reinforce wanted reactions: ie only when not mugging me and feet were still. I did the latter. But even when only treating when she was polite, she wa still treat-focused and not tack-focused (good) or me-focused (bad). Plus I want her to understand and accept tack, not just be distracted from it.

Is this just temporary to break the association? I only used treats for tacking, and once we were in the arena she did eventually refocus on me. If I carry on using treats, I think I'd prefer to find a way to make tacking a pleasant experience that did not involve me - like using a hanging lick or something. So she is not asking for treats - they are just there when saddles go on?

I am open to ideas but a just feeding back how it went and the disadvantages I have found when using treats in training - mainly the mental disconnect from the horse.

I will possibly get shot down for this but I'm a massive advocate for using food to help horses in their training - neither of my boys are muggy in the slightest and they're proper foodies and live for their haylage nets

I use treats to reinforce the desired behaviour when I'm training - so with Myka I would start with the tack being around her (maybe on her door/somewhere she can't knock it to the ground) and then let her investigate, and when she does, give her a reward for doing so. Eventually I'd build this up to holding the tack and repeating the letting her investigate, with the goal of transferring this to tacking up. It will take a while, especially if she is the more nervous/anxious sort, but the end goal is to have her relaxed whilst you're tacking up. Once you've nailed her tacking up without any reactions, I would then repeat the same steps but lessen the frequency of the treats with the goal of eventually phasing them out till pretty much the end. I still make sure that they get a reward at every step, so I'll give scratches in lieu of treats, so it's still a nice experience for them

Sometimes they can become food orientated but I usually find that you know this before you start using treats for training, so I'll substitute treats for scratches in this scenario x

Working towards having a hanging lick would be a good idea as like you said, she wouldn't associate the experience with you, more with the lick - but just be aware that she could go down the route of looking for the lick and not settling unless one is around for her x A friend used a Horslyx to help her horse get over the fear of the bridle but had a bit of a difficult time when she phased out the Horslyx and her horse clocked on to what was happening - he reverted back to his old behaviour. She did eventually get past it and now he only occasionally has a Horslyx whilst having this bridle on, but just thought it was worth mentioning x

 

[stangs]

I used treats to tack up yesterday. It helped in that she was so distracted by treats that she objected much less to the tack. But had the effect I usually find with treats of making her so focused on treats that she was mentally very disconnected from me.

I realised I was not sure if you meant use treats indiscriminately to distract (like I use a lick for plaiting) or time treats to reinforce wanted reactions: ie only when not mugging me and feet were still. I did the latter. But even when only treating when she was polite, she wa still treat-focused and not tack-focused (good) or me-focused (bad). Plus I want her to understand and accept tack, not just be distracted from it.

Is this just temporary to break the association? I only used treats for tacking, and once we were in the arena she did eventually refocus on me. If I carry on using treats, I think I'd prefer to find a way to make tacking a pleasant experience that did not involve me - like using a hanging lick or something. So she is not asking for treats - they are just there when saddles go on?

I am open to ideas but a just feeding back how it went and the disadvantages I have found when using treats in training - mainly the mental disconnect from the horse.

Your aim is to counter-condition, so for her to build positive associations with the saddle. The way you do that is you mark* and reward when the saddle appears, remove saddle, bring saddle back, mark and reward, and then start decreasing the distance between her and the saddle. As maya said, this is easiest with 2 people.

Over time, as she finds it easier to be tacked up, you can then decrease the reinforcement (so doing more steps before you treat, using lower value treats, starting to replace treats with other forms of reinforcement, like scratches) and you may eventually not need any reinforcement. Being ridden may end up being the reward. Just don't go from lots of reinforcement to cold turkey no treats one day - because counter-conditioning trains them to expect something good with the aversive stimulus (the saddle) and you can't completely take the good away one day.

If you use a hanging lick, then you can't properly counter-condition because that sort of continuous treat prevents you from utilising the reward mechanisms that allows you to counter condition. A lick would just be distraction rather than making the saddle a good thing, so you can't then fade the reward out.

What you say about mental disconnect is interesting because I can't say I've ever experienced that with my boy. Even when I think of puppies who are very food-focused, they learn that food comes from their owners so if anything they become ultra focused on what their owners asking. Maybe our definitions of mental disconnect differ, as I don't see food-oriented in training as a bad thing, but I suspect you may be using too high value of a reward for her to cope with mentally, or you're taking too long between the behaviour and her being rewarded, e.g., when you're rummaging for treats in your pocket, so you're building up frustration.

If you're worried about her associating your person with treats, you can throw them into a bucket instead of hand-feeding.

(* Mark as in having a marker word, or a clicker sound, so you can pinpoint the exact second that she's doing what you want, rather than losing that behaviour in the time it takes you to get the treat out. You would need to first condition the marker word away from the saddle so she knows what it means (conditioning the marker word just saying 'good' for example and then treating) - in the long term, this means that being told the word 'good', or whatever you use, can be a reward in itself, although it's unlikely to become a strong enough reinforcer in itself to use for counter-conditioning.)

Aware that I've started rambling but I hope some of this makes sense, and happy to clarify if not.

 

[dorsetladette]

AE I was going to offer an old saddle if you needed one. I have a couple I picked up free when Ben was terrified of everything. They are a bit bashed up as I plonked them on piles of hay in the field so he could eat and relax around the cob eating monsters.

From memory the pro we sent him to got most success from the pressure and release technique you mentioned up thread. Holding the saddle in place until he stood still, moving this on to licking and chewing to show he'd relaxed. The reward being a scratch and the saddle being removed (and lots of praise).

The freelancer I have helping me with Reggie does lots of banging and making noise with the stirrup leathers to ensure Reggie is fully aware of the saddle on his back. we're really quite rough with moving the saddle around on his back before we put a rider (me) up. Basically we don't move on to the next process until he is very settled with the first. It's normally very obvious with Reg as he yawns a lot during our sessions.

I'll probably be shot for this. I know clicker and treating works for some, but I'm not a fan of it with youngsters. It's difficult to not end up with a nippy pony who tries to mug you at every opportunity. Then you have another behaviour to correct. Obviously my opinion, but based on experience with lots of young ponies.

 

[maya2008]

I used treats to tack up yesterday. It helped in that she was so distracted by treats that she objected much less to the tack. But had the effect I usually find with treats of making her so focused on treats that she was mentally very disconnected from me.

I realised I was not sure if you meant use treats indiscriminately to distract (like I use a lick for plaiting) or time treats to reinforce wanted reactions: ie only when not mugging me and feet were still. I did the latter. But even when only treating when she was polite, she wa still treat-focused and not tack-focused (good) or me-focused (bad). Plus I want her to understand and accept tack, not just be distracted from it.

Is this just temporary to break the association? I only used treats for tacking, and once we were in the arena she did eventually refocus on me. If I carry on using treats, I think I'd prefer to find a way to make tacking a pleasant experience that did not involve me - like using a hanging lick or something. So she is not asking for treats - they are just there when saddles go on?

I am open to ideas but a just feeding back how it went and the disadvantages I have found when using treats in training - mainly the mental disconnect from the horse.

Food has two functions:
1) To change association and rewire their automatic nervous response to an item/situation. I want their focus on the food at that point. I want them to focus on the food and focus less on the thing they are scared of, because then their reaction will be less to the scary thing (which starts to eliminate the automatic ‘see thing = release of adrenaline’). So feed and keep feeding until the scary thing is gone/not moving. Then they’re like. Oh! It was ok! And the automatic response of stress hormones never happened. Over time it will stop happening but you have to keep up the treats until they are no longer even eyeing it warily. At that point you will have trained a release of positive ‘feel good’ hormones to the thing/situation. A bit like Pavlov’s dog and the bell. After a time the dog salivates at the sound of the bell if dinner does not arrive.

2) To change specific behaviours or train new ones. Animal behaviour has the rules that an action that receives a positive outcome will be more likely to be repeated. One that receives a negative outcome will be less likely to be repeated. If the outcome is occasional rather than predictable, it will affect the likelihood of repeating it more. Again: action, treat. They are more likely to repeat the action. Over time the treat becomes more intermittent and they reinforces them doing the action more and more. Then eventually you don’t need it. You have hard wired the action/response.

Should they focus on you instead of the treat? No. Why would they? You want focus on the treat. Focus on the treat releases the happy hormones in your horse’s brain and trains the response you want.

If your approval/fuss was of high enough value to your horse for the training exercise then you could of course do that instead. Later in your ownership with years of trust between you, it might well be.

We take on horses with trauma and behavioural issues. We successfully turn them around without ever needing to worry about whether the horse’s focus is on us. It is literally something I have never considered. When tacking up they are normally munching hay or staring into the distance or snoozing. They might shift their focus to me to tell me there is a problem, but otherwise they stand quietly and relax until it is time to do something. I wouldn’t even consider putting a person on a horse or pony I couldn’t tack up without them being bothered by it. I want them to be happily munching or watching the next field or whatever. It shows they don’t care. They are still aware of me - they will move over if asked for example, but they are calm and unbothered by the tack.

I hope that makes sense?

(Edited to add: we use food a lot and treat liberally. Nothing we have trained (from weanlings and foals to 16yo ex feral ponies and tame thugs with dangerous ground manners) mugs for treats or nips, even the ones that arrived with a biting habit. In fact I have a rising 4yo who can be given treats by her 2yo sharer in complete safety and whose sharer can eat her own snack right next to the pony without worry. If horses get pushy about treats, it’s rude, I correct it instantly. So do my kids. Everything is training. Every single interaction you have teaches them something. Train for what you want, job done.)

 

[stangs]

I'll probably be shot for this. I know clicker and treating works for some, but I'm not a fan of it with youngsters. It's difficult to not end up with a nippy pony who tries to mug you at every opportunity. Then you have another behaviour to correct. Obviously my opinion, but based on experience with lots of young ponies.

Actually, I agree with you to an extent. It is very easy to end up with a muggy frustrated horse when you use positive reinforcement - if you're not careful about what you're doing. But, if you do know what you're doing, it's a great way to train behaviours, no matter what age the horse you're working with is.

I see a lot of people saying positive reinforcement doesn't work for their horse because XYZ but they never look at what they're actually doing.

For example, at a bare minimum when trouble-shooting issues with R+, you should be thinking about what value reinforcer you use (a lot of people blow their horses brains feeding treats that are way too high value); how you reward (for example, for mugginess, reward away from your body or throw treats into a bucket. Get your horse used to your hands being around their mouth beforehand so they don't associate fingers with treats. Are you easily able to access treats, or are you spending time rummaging for them and building up frustration in the horse?); and the environment you're working in (Is there other food available? Does the horse need to be at liberty to reduce frustration?)

Minimise frustration and set boundaries and then 99.9% of horses can be quite easily trained with R+.

 

[Caol Ila]

I think I understand what AE is saying. Hermosa is clicker-trained (I mean, we use pressure and release too..it's not a zero sum game), and Gypsum had some clicker training, but I gave up on it with Fin because he would do exactly what AE has described. He has an uncanny ability to completely tune out whatever you're trying to train, especially if you're trying to get him comfortable with a scary thing, and focus his entire mind on the treat. And we are talking low value treats here. Low sugar, dead boring. It doesn't matter. What this means is that clicker training Fin feels like the Doctor Who episode "Heaven Sent." You're in a time loop, and when you start the loop, it's like he doesn't remember a damned thing he's done in the previous 4.5 billion iterations of the loop. Every time he sees the rug (for example), feels like the very first time you tried to put a rug on him.

I went with more Cat-H-type approaches. He will wear a fly rug now.

That said....and this is probably never the sort of thing you should confess on HHO, he's never been that good about the process of you walking up to him with a saddle and putting it on his back. He doesn't explode or anything dangerous, but he backs away from you. My solution? I give him a handful of pony nuts while I put the saddle on. I tried to fix it with Cat-H and +R, my sharer has tried to fix with it +R, and ultimately, we all went, "f*ck it, here are some pony nuts." Staying in the time loop, but if you know that's what you're doing because you don't have the time, energy, or motivation to chip at that azbantium wall, then it's fair, lol. And he is an ex-feral who was broken in very late. Had he been a youngster, I would have tried harder to really fix it instead of going around it.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

She was less over excited by the treats today and learnt very quickly she needs to stand politely to get one. Not mug me. Seemed fairly unconcerned by saddle and much more interested in treats. Which is a result I guess, but I still think I’m just distracting her rather than changing her mind about saddles! But I’ll take it!

Anyway had a lesson with Joe and am feeling more positive. It felt like it was all unraveling a bit - with ‘incidents’ that weren’t happening with him. Must really annoy him seeing numpties like me mess up all his hard work! But anyway… the biggest anxiety I had was her bronccing when I tried to mount, having ‘passed’ the pre-flight checks. But in fact she was not passing the checks. She was doing the ‘things’ she was meant to do, but not giving the right feel. Eg she flexed when I was stood on the block, but her eyes did not follow and the movement was jerky. When I put my toe in the stirrup she flinched very slightly. Her breathing was not relaxed. Her nostrils were tight. So although she was standing still and giving me her head, she was tense and disconnected. The signs were subtle but obvious once they were pointed out. For example I noticed a twitch when I touched her side so I kept touching it till she stopped. Then left it. But she only stopped twitching because she was now expecting it. If she then had the stirrups played with, the saddle rocked, the rump rubbed and we went back to her sides the twitch was back. So I needed to just keep offering her different stimuli till nothing bothered her at all.

Joe talked me through it all and when she seemed ready to ride ( Ie she was totally mentally relaxed as well as being physically still) he said I should get on not him. Assuring me she’d be fine. And she was. I’ve said it before but he is a genius! He reads horses so so well. I am staying committed to taking the long path and facing down the ‘just get on with it’ advice. I think another rider could be out and about later this year when I’m still assessing her readiness for being sat on but that underlying worry is real and I think she’ll be a calmer, happier more reliable horse in the end if the basics are absolutely solid.

 

[ihatework]

AE having watched you chop and change instructors over the years, second guessing yourself and getting confused etc, you seemed to have really clicked with Joe and he has offered you a lot of consistency that seems to align with your ideals in training. So whilst there are many roads to Rome and I/others may take different approaches I think you need to stick with Joe because it works for you. Very easy to be talked off track and just confuse yourself again. Myka will be a challenging one for you, for sure. But there is no rush.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I’m committed to sticking with Joe - but I can only have 1 lesson a month and that just doesn’t feel enough at the moment. But I’m running a camp with him from Friday so I can make the most of that - slotting 3 demos into the programme!