Backing 3/4yr olds

Snow-pony said:
I know absolutely nothing about Futurity but she looks stunning 😍
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Thanks my one and only homebred. It's been one of my dreams to own and compete the mother, choose the stallion and ride the offspring and I have managed that. It will be a very special day if we make it eventing.
 
Asha said:
Im not sure i agree about giving marks based on breeding. You can have a top stallion and a top mare and still produce a dud.
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Oh completely!

But it’s rare that you get upper level competition horses without the proven performance genetics- so I think if someone is putting a young horse forwards for a discipline specific evaluation it is really quite relevant.

But I also think there would be real merit in having sections not evaluating as a performance horse but instead as a leisure horse / show horse / allrounder etc. Not in a ‘second class citizen’ type of way, but in a natural acknowledgment that the weighting on different desirable traits is different.

In the eventing sections, you get a lot of entries from specific stallions that are/were effing useless competition horses or produces themselves. But they create pretty offspring (whispers with a likely very low strike rate of ever going FEI), but who are nice types in their own right.
 
With the clocks changing last week, baby thoroughbred came in from his summer field and is now in at night and out during the day. Relieved as the field was getting quite muddy around the gate and hay feeder and I don't particularly enjoy grooming and tacking up in a windy laneway 😂
To celebrate we went out to an arena x-country and he popped round his first 80cm course. To say the penny has dropped as far as jumping goes is an understatement- he was awesome, stayed in his rhythm with his little ears forward the whole time for a lovely clear round and his first rosette 😍


Now that we'll be mostly confined to arena work during the week, if anyone has any recommendations for books I can get that might offer inspiration for (basic) dressage or polework exercises to prevent us dying of boredom please let me know! May also be useful for teenage daughter and her horse who are not dressage fans 😂
 
LEC said:
The reality is that top horses have top breeding lines. They need to decide what the aim is - quality horses for riding or top quality competition horses for elite sport. That's slightly different and in that case a temperament mark should be given or you consider the breeding
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There aim is a bit of a mix. Looking for top elite horses is just one aspect. They say they are looking to collect data on british breeding so that breeders can make informed decisions. They are acutely aware that not all horses will make the %%
Breeding is recorded on the database to help with decision making

They have added the native classes to start evaluating the RC types, which i think is a step in the right direction
 
ihatework said:
Oh completely!

But it’s rare that you get upper level competition horses without the proven performance genetics- so I think if someone is putting a young horse forwards for a discipline specific evaluation it is really quite relevant.

But I also think there would be real merit in having sections not evaluating as a performance horse but instead as a leisure horse / show horse / allrounder etc. Not in a ‘second class citizen’ type of way, but in a natural acknowledgment that the weighting on different desirable traits is different.

In the eventing sections, you get a lot of entries from specific stallions that are/were effing useless competition horses or produces themselves. But they create pretty offspring (whispers with a likely very low strike rate of ever going FEI), but who are nice types in their own right.
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Ive noted a few stallions that progeny seem to do rather well, be interesting to see how they do in the future.

They do have a section now for leisure /show etc its the native class, they look for attitude in that

When i first started going to the futurity , way back in 2009 they would evaluate a horse and if they thought ( for example) a dressage horse didnt have the movement for top dressage they would suggest moving it into the event section. I witnessed this a few times. This seems to have stopped now, which is right. I totally agree those that are dressage bred should be evaluated as a dressage horse. But i dont think they should get extra marks just because the dam line is a grand prix winner. the foal / youngster should be marked as the horse in front of the judge.
 
Well Willow seems to be content enough with barn life (she has a friend in with her and thank goodness she has the most amazing temperament).... swelling is down considerably but area still puffy and hot. She's walking normally on it so keeping everything crossed for Monday's imaging.
 

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alsxx said:
Well Willow seems to be content enough with barn life (she has a friend in with her and thank goodness she has the most amazing temperament).... swelling is down considerably but area still puffy and hot. She's walking normally on it so keeping everything crossed for Monday's imaging.
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shes lovely, im a sucker for a liver chestnut. Hope all goes well Monday
 
Fingers crossed she has just banged herself and its just bruising that a little bit of rest will heal.

I had a horse come in hoping lame on the near fore, swelling and bumps on the other legs and scraps in various places. Clearly somehad happened in the field and I thought tendon or other serious damage and had the vet out etc. It was all just deep bruising, he was almost sound 4 days later then slowly came sound over the next 3 weeks while everything settled and healed. He was back on turn out (different field) after 4 days because no rest was happening in his box or small pen 🙄
 
BenvardenRach2 said:
Oh no, really hope she hasn't done anything silly, sending good luck for the x rays!!

I've had Ru the connie for 4 months now, just looking at comparison pictures from July when i first got him, to today.
We have been hacking 2/3 times a week, a few weeks off, otherwise he has been turned out pretty much 24/7 on good grass to play and grow.
He is still a 4 yo but looking very different! I cant wait to see what he looks like next summer!

What is everyone doing with their youngsters over winter?

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That's quite a difference. He looks much stronger. Well done!
 
I was on a lovely hack on small pony this morning, started thinking about contact, and would love to hear other views and experiences.

What does everyone do to help create a nice mouth, before getting on and riding?

I wonder if I don't do enough, in my efforts to not ruin their mouths.
I tend to long rein off a headcollar, or through bit rings and clipped to the headcollar.
They do groundwork and voice commands on a halter and long line.

So being critical, I think perhaps mine don't know enough about contact through a bit when I get on them. And wonder if I could l/should be doing something differently to better prepare them.

I focus on them being trusting, safe, they have good experiences and all are easy to get on and hack up the road, you can do gates, leg yield etc. but being honest, it does then tend to take some time under saddle to get a nice contact as they can be too light and a little reactive to it
.
Would love to hear views from others!
 
millitiger said:
I was on a lovely hack on small pony this morning, started thinking about contact, and would love to hear other views and experiences.

What does everyone do to help create a nice mouth, before getting on and riding?

I wonder if I don't do enough, in my efforts to not ruin their mouths.
I tend to long rein off a headcollar, or through bit rings and clipped to the headcollar.
They do groundwork and voice commands on a halter and long line.

So being critical, I think perhaps mine don't know enough about contact through a bit when I get on them. And wonder if I could l/should be doing something differently to better prepare them.

I focus on them being trusting, safe, they have good experiences and all are easy to get on and hack up the road, you can do gates, leg yield etc. but being honest, it does then tend to take some time under saddle to get a nice contact as they can be too light and a little reactive to it
.
Would love to hear views from others!
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I work mine in hand off the bit before I get on- stand by the shoulder and take up both reins. I then use the voice and a schooling whip to rest where the leg goes to aid going forwards, and the reins paired with the voice to stop, with a light contact in between, steering with the reins. I walk with them and do lots of walking/ halting and changes of rein (swapping sides as I do)
 
A little Willow update: trotted up sound in a straight line (although still on bute, vet didn't think she'd be totally sound if anything really bad or bony).

All ligaments and tendons looked fine on ultrasound, apart from some thickening of the intersesamoidal ligament, so the conclusion right now is she's sprained it.

Plan is to leave her on her stable/barn routine for another 2-3 weeks, bandaging at night, cold hosing and reducing the bute and see how she goes, before reintroducing turnout. She's then off anyway until March/April when hopefully, all being well, can bring her back into work. Massive 🤞🤞🤞 that's all she's done and the plan goes to plan!!

Thank you for all the good luck vibes 😊 keep 'em coming!!
 
Vibes to all those with injured horses atm ☹️

We’ve been a mostly brave baby pony recently.

Went for our first solo walk since I brought him home and was mostly good once we’d sorted a minor disagreement about it being inappropriate for him to tow me around so he could eat grass / that grass tracks are not non-stop cob picnic facilities. (As you can see he disagrees!)

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Learnt about loading on & off the box without jumping the ramp or trying to kick it to bits. (Standing nicely on the lorry training likely to be an ongoing project!)

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Then today we jumped up out first “step” kind of accidentally!

He decided the double yellow lines on THIS PARTICULAR PRIVATE ROAD were highly suspicious. When allowed to investigate / asked if he’d like to investigate some of the grass growing above the kerb as bribery is highly successful with him his solution was to jump over the scary yellow lines and up onto where the grass was. Definitely some interesting problem solving skills going on there! Anyhow then had to do a walk of shame to a lower bit of kerb to get him back down again (didn’t want him to launch himself onto road and slip if he decided the yellow lines were still lava)

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Sorry again that we’re still firmly in the pre backing phase / not much sitting on the pony is occurring (I do wonder if I’d be better making him his own thread?)
 
millitiger said:
I was on a lovely hack on small pony this morning, started thinking about contact, and would love to hear other views and experiences.

What does everyone do to help create a nice mouth, before getting on and riding?

I wonder if I don't do enough, in my efforts to not ruin their mouths.
I tend to long rein off a headcollar, or through bit rings and clipped to the headcollar.
They do groundwork and voice commands on a halter and long line.

So being critical, I think perhaps mine don't know enough about contact through a bit when I get on them. And wonder if I could l/should be doing something differently to better prepare them.

I focus on them being trusting, safe, they have good experiences and all are easy to get on and hack up the road, you can do gates, leg yield etc. but being honest, it does then tend to take some time under saddle to get a nice contact as they can be too light and a little reactive to it
.
Would love to hear views from others!
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In terms of basic aids - you can create that entirely from the saddle yourself in the usual sort of way. Ask with the tiny aid you want, then escalate as needed. Soon they go off the small aid.

In terms of going in an outline - in my experience, there is a critical period in early backing when they lift their backs and drop their heads to better carry the rider of their own accord. If the rider accepts this offering and rides forward into the contact, then that’s it, job done. If the rider does not respond appropriately, they give up as this being not a good idea. Then it is much harder to train them later on.

Again, in my experience, that has nothing to do with whether you have or have not done groundwork (unless that groundwork was incorrect e.g. teaching them to tuck their nose in with a hollow back). All sound horses/ponies will offer, you just have to recognise that offering and take them up on it.
 
Baby thoroughbred had another little trip out to arena x-country. A much twister course this week and he'd got a bit cocky having done it the previous week so was quite enthusiastic. The fact he started coming in at night a week and a half ago, has had his feed upped and was only ridden twice this week may also have contributed slightly!
Still a very good boy, knocked one due to rushing a bit but delighted at how he just takes everything on and seems to really enjoy it 😊


Two shows planned for him in early December, one is indoors so may do a practice spin somewhere beforehand as he hasn't been in one before. Then we'll be backing off a bit until the end of Jan to give him a little break.
 
Thanks @maya2008. I'm competent and confident in what I ask when riding, that isn't a concern for me.

It was more what groundwork people do beforehand as a preparation.
We (I?) do everything else gradually, make sure they are comfortable with each step before getting on etc. it just struck me in my musings that I don't do much prep for a contact.

I do see other people who work a lot more on contact and connection before getting on than I do, and I'm interested in hearing those experiences.
I appreciate your experience is you don't, which is in line with what I do at the moment, so perhaps I'm not alone.

Would still love other views too if people are brave enough to say.
 
millitiger said:
Thanks @maya2008. I'm competent and confident in what I ask when riding, that isn't a concern for me.

It was more what groundwork people do beforehand as a preparation.
We (I?) do everything else gradually, make sure they are comfortable with each step before getting on etc. it just struck me in my musings that I don't do much prep for a contact.

I do see other people who work a lot more on contact and connection before getting on than I do, and I'm interested in hearing those experiences.
I appreciate your experience is you don't, which is in line with what I do at the moment, so perhaps I'm not alone.

Would still love other views too if people are brave enough to say.
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I found this old video of Nova when he was 3 showing what I do- skip the first part where I just move him around, you then can see how I work them off the reins
 
millitiger said:
Thanks @maya2008. I'm competent and confident in what I ask when riding, that isn't a concern for me.

It was more what groundwork people do beforehand as a preparation.
We (I?) do everything else gradually, make sure they are comfortable with each step before getting on etc. it just struck me in my musings that I don't do much prep for a contact.

I do see other people who work a lot more on contact and connection before getting on than I do, and I'm interested in hearing those experiences.
I appreciate your experience is you don't, which is in line with what I do at the moment, so perhaps I'm not alone.

Would still love other views too if people are brave enough to say.
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It’s fascinating watching the backing process. I on the whole don’t do the initial riding away at all. I do the basic early handling and then depending on the horse I might do some enhanced groundwork (not dissimilar to the Mule video) before sending them away (the easy ones) or do a spell of it after initial backing (the more sensitive ones).

I’ve used 2 different breakers and their approach is chalk and cheese. One an abundance of groundwork, desensitising, more school based activities. The other, much more ‘traditional British’ for want of a better phrase. Get them used to tack/rider in the stable, then in the lunge pen, then quickly out hacking and not really learning contact at that stage.

In all cases I’ve had happy confident horses back. Yes the former might know a little more and be more refined/polished around the edges, but long term it’s not made a huge amount of difference. Many roads to Rome.

I’m not sure what system I prefer. I think for me, it’s the latter - but more because I’m more proficient on the ground than riding away, so I’d rather focus on investing the £ in the early rider carrying part!
 
Thanks both, adds to my thought process!

@TheMule, interesting to watch the video, thank you for digging it out and posting. Mine do very similar on the ground and, funnily enough, I started holding the reins in a similar way last weekend when we were practicing some leg yield. It was a bit inadvertent, as it was so I could use my other hand on his side to act as my leg but I did have more contact.

@ihatework i really find everyone’s different methods fascinating! And I always think it’s good to be curious and keep an open mind, as you may pick one new thing up that can go in your toolbox.
Watching some videos, some people seem to have a beautiful accepting and elastic contact on their horses on the very first ride and almost immediately the horse is well on the aids and looking like a 6yro.
It could be they are simply masterful riders but my gut tells me these yards are doing a lot of work on the contact (and outline) before getting on.

I’m not saying one way is better or worse, I’m currently a back ‘em and hack ‘em person with very happy horses, but I do wonder if I could make their lives easier by a bit more of a happy medium in what is asking before getting on.

Today I’ve discovered ClipMyHorse has an Academy and has a whole section on groundwork and young horses so I think I’ll work through that too.
 
T
millitiger said:
Thanks both, adds to my thought process!

@TheMule, interesting to watch the video, thank you for digging it out and posting. Mine do very similar on the ground and, funnily enough, I started holding the reins in a similar way last weekend when we were practicing some leg yield. It was a bit inadvertent, as it was so I could use my other hand on his side to act as my leg but I did have more contact.

@ihatework i really find everyone’s different methods fascinating! And I always think it’s good to be curious and keep an open mind, as you may pick one new thing up that can go in your toolbox.
Watching some videos, some people seem to have a beautiful accepting and elastic contact on their horses on the very first ride and almost immediately the horse is well on the aids and looking like a 6yro.
It could be they are simply masterful riders but my gut tells me these yards are doing a lot of work on the contact (and outline) before getting on.

I’m not saying one way is better or worse, I’m currently a back ‘em and hack ‘em person with very happy horses, but I do wonder if I could make their lives easier by a bit more of a happy medium in what is asking before getting on.

Today I’ve discovered ClipMyHorse has an Academy and has a whole section on groundwork and young horses so I think I’ll work through that too.
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That reminds me- I found this a really great resource when I was starting Nova and his mule buddy https://www.wehorse.com/en/topics/work-in-hand
 
Aspen is back out with the herd enjoying being muddy and feral once more. He'll stay out until spring now.
Only sticking point so far was he reacted quite a bit to the girth but once he got it, he was fine, so it will be interesting to see how that pans out next year.
 
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millitiger said:
Thanks @maya2008. I'm competent and confident in what I ask when riding, that isn't a concern for me.

It was more what groundwork people do beforehand as a preparation.
We (I?) do everything else gradually, make sure they are comfortable with each step before getting on etc. it just struck me in my musings that I don't do much prep for a contact.

I do see other people who work a lot more on contact and connection before getting on than I do, and I'm interested in hearing those experiences.
I appreciate your experience is you don't, which is in line with what I do at the moment, so perhaps I'm not alone.

Would still love other views too if people are brave enough to say.
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I missed out the bit that probably should have said:

I have experimented with different backing methods in the past couple of decades, from the traditional ‘lunge in side reins’ to long reining and flexions and the Philippe Karl method. I’ve done a lot of liberty work too just as a fun thing to do. Some methods were easier to mess up, some were straightforward, some were just fun.

In the end, I found that doing nothing was actually more effective in terms of achieving an easily identified, relatively quick initial offering of a correct outline and contact. You can’t mess up ‘nothing’ and you haven’t created anything artificial to make it hard to see when they do offer.

Of course, you miss out on the enjoyment of groundwork that way. If you have time and want to, why not?

Overall, of the methods I did try, I liked Philippe Karl a lot - force free and kind, easy for the horse to understand. Relatively hard for the human to mess up. I don’t like the way people following that method are taught as a way of going for the horse (in UK clinics - the books have sound principles), but I liked the ideas in the books for starting a horse and developing their mouth. It’s brilliant too for a horse who has had their initial offering of outline and contact missed, because again it’s easy for them and kind.
 
Apache has been back for a few weeks now and he's had appointments with the dentist, physio and saddle fitter. Now that I'm confident on him, I've been taking him out on the trails/paths by the agistment. First handful of rides were all in the arena.
Initially he didn't want to leave. I think it's a combination of lack of confidence and knowing that home (tie up area especially) is the place of rest. So I've been following Warwick Schiller's 50ft trail ride method (which I've used before with another horse with success) and today we managed to get all the way down the driveway and out the gate and a bit further along the path. Very good boy and he didn't rush back home either. I'm more aware of his thresholds now and getting better at choosing to turn back or to push him on a bit more.

Video shows the ride down the path out the gate.

 
Things don’t always go to plan do they ! After Amara recovered from her abscess , we gave her a brush and was just about to tack up when her rider said she could feel some mud where the girth goes . It wasn’t mud , she had popped a bl***y sarcoid . So whizzed her off to the vets as we couldn’t take the chance it would go on its own in the position .
Turns out her fluff was hiding quite a few . So she’s had them all removed . So will now be taking her winter break. Im hoping her immune system kicks in and they don’t come back . But fully accept they might do .
Weirdly though , she seems much more forward since they’ve been removed . Even just walking back and forth to the field . Guess it’s possible they were uncomfortable ?
Thought I’d share the photo of them feckers .
 

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@Asha I had sarcoids Lasered off a previous horse and they never came back, fingers crossed the same for you!

Giant ginger is now ready to start back up.
He came back from the breakers quite difficult to get on, fidgeting and walking off a lot. Irritating as to me, it is a basic requirement to stand still while people are getting on 🙄
So we've spent the last few days practising. Firstly just standing, no tack, with me back by his elbow. The no tack and me on a mounting block. Now with a saddle and me on the mounting block and banging around the saddle, putting my foot in the stirrup repeatedly etc.
He's been a diamond and it's taken less than 10 minutes each day so I'm puzzled why it wasn't done at school.
Anyhoo, getting on tomorrow if all continues well so hopefully I don't get sky rocketed 😅
 
millitiger said:
@Asha I had sarcoids Lasered off a previous horse and they never came back, fingers crossed the same for you!

Giant ginger is now ready to start back up.
He came back from the breakers quite difficult to get on, fidgeting and walking off a lot. Irritating as to me, it is a basic requirement to stand still while people are getting on 🙄
So we've spent the last few days practising. Firstly just standing, no tack, with me back by his elbow. The no tack and me on a mounting block. Now with a saddle and me on the mounting block and banging around the saddle, putting my foot in the stirrup repeatedly etc.
He's been a diamond and it's taken less than 10 minutes each day so I'm puzzled why it wasn't done at school.
Anyhoo, getting on tomorrow if all continues well so hopefully I don't get sky rocketed 😅
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Thank you, im hoping so. Ive got her on Radiance gold to see of that helps.

Good luck tomorrow
 
millitiger said:
@Asha I had sarcoids Lasered off a previous horse and they never came back, fingers crossed the same for you!

Giant ginger is now ready to start back up.
He came back from the breakers quite difficult to get on, fidgeting and walking off a lot. Irritating as to me, it is a basic requirement to stand still while people are getting on 🙄
So we've spent the last few days practising. Firstly just standing, no tack, with me back by his elbow. The no tack and me on a mounting block. Now with a saddle and me on the mounting block and banging around the saddle, putting my foot in the stirrup repeatedly etc.
He's been a diamond and it's taken less than 10 minutes each day so I'm puzzled why it wasn't done at school.
Anyhoo, getting on tomorrow if all continues well so hopefully I don't get sky rocketed 😅
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Fingers crossed they don't come back, and interesting about seeming more forward.
 
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