Backing a horse in a stable.....

I agree with that totally- but I don't think this is a question of what is safe- I feel that this way is a safe way to do things- as is backing in a school- as long as the horse is correctly prepared, the environment calm and safe and the handlers experienced and know what is expected of them and from the session.
 
katastrophykat said:
I agree with that totally- but I don't think this is a question of what is safe- I feel that this way is a safe way to do things- as is backing in a school- as long as the horse is correctly prepared, the environment calm and safe and the handlers experienced and know what is expected of them and from the session.
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Perhaps that's where we differ then. For me backing in a stable is a fundamental safety risk. The area is small, cramped, the horse has no long view which is essential to a horses feeling of safety. There are a few people in there, probable beams overhead no escape for humans if something went wrong... etc. etc. etc.

To go back to my shooter analogy, when is it safe to carry a gun that way? Never. Why is it never? Because of the risk of death or injury if something goes wrong. There are probably many shooters who get away with this time and time again but you still read of 'accidents' that happen to some.
The question to me is one of fundamental safety and the risk. If that isn't met then the rest is just luck!
 
People here are saying that if all the correct ground work is done then a horse should be fine to back in a stable but TBH why would you then choose to do it in something as enclosed as a stable then? Why not in an arena / small field? Personally I've backed only in a large yard / small field. Having fallen off over the years (not youngsters) and hitting things like fence posts and once getting on at show beside the trailer, getting bucked off straight into the side of it - it hurts to hit hard things so I'd rather avoid stable walls!). Wouldn't dream of doing it in a stable. Never had any issues doing it in a field.
 
It might be the way for some to do it but I wouldn't personally.

I think of the stable as where the horse rests, eats etc. The school is the workplace.

Whatever works for you and your horse, everyone's different!
 
sazzle44 said:
Surely if you do ground work in the school they would feel safe and secure there too? We always lunge and long rein in the arena and then progress to leaning over and sitting up. Their down time is in the stable and I like it to stay that way myself. If doing it in the stable works for you then fine, but it's not something I would consider. This is simply a personal preference though, horses for courses and all that :)
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I totally agree. By the time you come to backing the horse should be familiar with the school anyway. I prefer their stable to be kept as down time too. Plus when do we ever mount a horse in the stable!? Therefore it seems odd to start a horse off this way. IMO no matter how much prep you have done, there may always be occasions where a horse reacts badly or something spooks him. If that were to happen in a stable it could turn a bit nasty.
Obviously lots of people have backed there horses this way however, and it has worked for them. Like others have said I guess it depends on your own personal preference.
 
I've broken quite a few and have done two horses in a stable.

It really is horses for courses, the ones I did it with could be a little 'tight' and I wanted them somewhere they viewed as very safe with no distractions like other horses, dogs playing, people appearing suddenly in the open etc.

It worked fine with the two I did it with and was much safer than doing them in a more open area.

The rest of mine have been done in an arena or even just in the field so it really it horses for courses and imo, unless you have backed a lot of horses and seen what works for different types, you just aren't going to understand that for some situations, the stable is best.
 
When I worked in racing we always backed in the stable, but never since.

Personally I prefer to back in the middle of a school with a leg up and no obstacles (school fence, mounting blocks, jump wings etc.) in case the horse has a bit of a hump, the ground handler can take a turn and get control if needed.

If I anticipated a problem I wouldn't be backing yet anyway.
 
Stupid. I've seen horses go silly in stables with no regard for where their head is. If it's going to go skitz if you back it in an arena everyoen can get away safely. And if it's going to go skitz you haven't prepared it.
 
Some years ago I had this conversation with a very experienced German instructor. He always backed youngsters in the stable. I thought it was dangerous and he argued for it. His main reason was that because of the restricted space a horse was far less likely to do anything.
About two years later he was killed backing a young horse in the stable.

I worked in a yard where we broke a lot of horses for racing. I would never back them in the stable but the owner would. I always held the horse for her and legged her up (after leaning over them) I hated it knowing that there was never room if something happened. Luckily it never did in the stable but after an incident outside with a very difficult colt, she riding me leading, and she saw my reaction to his tantrum,she took me at my word and we always backed outside.
 
I have backed lots of horses in the stable, mainly racehorses but not all racehorses. All stables have been plenty large enough with good high ceilings (would not want to do it anywhere overly cramped).

I have always felt safest doing it this way, and have never put myself in a situation where anything dangerous was likely. I have always done it very much step by step, taking a couple of steps back whenever the horse is expressing a lack of confidence in what I am doing.

I regularly watch inexperienced people backing horses outside and shudder at the many things they have go badly wrong (or potentially going badly wrong). There is no perfect way of backing a horse - it is, inherently, dangerous.

When the horse is ready to be ridden away I go out into an arena or other enclosed space - but all the first experiences of carrying weight across their back, and then astride their back, I will continue to do in a stable, with experienced and confident people on the floor to help me.
 
As a child many years ago I was regularly put on ponies to back them and it was always in a stable. I prefer to do it outside because if it does go wrong I would rather not get crushed against a wall or potentially hit my head. There are plenty of ways to get injured getting on any horse and I wouldn't mount any horse in a stable nowadays regardless of age.
 
Each to their own, really. I didn't back mine in a stable, but I did routinely get on him while he was in there to get him used to having someone on his back. Got a few strange looks off some of the other liveries, but it was an open barn stable and I found it worked well.
 
although i know it's a common practice i've never understood why! to me a stable is a place of rest, school/arena is the place of work. The only part i do in a stable is the bitting and thats because i leave them wearing it for half hour with no restraint and it's just easier to do it in a stable. The rest i always do outside in the schooling paddock, it's the 'work place' and they're expected to respect that ;) The stable is for snoozing in, field for playing in and 'school' for working in:)
 
The answer is NO. I always start off my youngsters outside and if you handle them right and take 1 step at a time there is usually no problem, if there is you can soon dismount,not be bucked into the stable wall, like I was many years ago and my filly was being broken in by an experienced person,who I trusted, and of cause it was my and my filly's fault the accident happened, found out years later the same happened to his son and he stopped riding.
 
I was taught to do it in the stable and have never had a problem I do it at grooming time use a mounting block of apporiate hieght lean on them when the moments right over a few days in crease pressure you press on them .
Then I lie across ( with someone assisting ) then sit on leaning forward then sit up no saddle of course and stable has robe high enough.
 
I think that it is rather ironic that most (not all) of the people who have a reasonable amount of experience are fine with it, those that have very little or none don't. I have done countless racehorses, both TB and Arab and also riding horses. A lot of the time with the riding horses I was on my own and that is a challenge but a hell of a lot safer in a stable. Provided it is not too small and have awkward beams, I found that in the stable if the horse does spook they cannot get up any sort of speed and escalate the situation. I have done a few in a round pit, but have not worked in many places where this is an option so the stable is the most sensible option. Also I would never have more than 2 people in the stable. If your leader/legger upper cannot leg you up with one hand then you both need to practice more on a more experienced horse. This is why I tend to roller horses (which I always do in a school BTW) on my own, the less people you have about the less people can get hurt.
FWIW if the horse freaks out then you are pushing him too fast, when you have done a few you get a feeling for when they are about to panic and can get off well in time before they get upset.
 
Ive backed in a stable before, the horse didnt like the openess in the school initially, so backed him in the stable where he was settled and content then he was more settled having the rider on in the arena and was happy to ride on from this.
Have also backed out in a field, when their wasnt an arena available. As someone else said, its horses for courses
 
For those that back in a stable whT do you do once you have sat on? Get back off again?
Those I see do it in a school ride away after.
 
Paris1 said:
For those that back in a stable whT do you do once you have sat on? Get back off again?
Those I see do it in a school ride away after.
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Mmm different way to me then after I have sat on them in the stable (no saddle for this ) I repeat it for a few days in the stable let them move a little round the stable with me on . I have never had one panic it's bit of a game not in the school where they are learning that they must work if I need to take a step back I just slowly slide off when I got perfectly happy with getting on and off a few time in a row I get on them in the school after a work session prefer just me and one other person but if the horse is tall a third is sometimes needed first day just stand and fuss second day lead a few steps third day walking a circle on the lunge and so on a little more each day.
I have never backed a horse and just ridden it away how would you steer stop give forward commands these things have to be taught IME backing is easy the more difficult time is the riding away off the lunge there's lots of opportunity for stuff to go wrong at that stage
 
Goldenstar said:
I have never backed a horse and just ridden it away how would you steer stop give forward commands these things have to be taught IME backing is easy the more difficult time is the riding away off the lunge there's lots of opportunity for stuff to go wrong at that stage
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That is why I always longrein, rather than lunge. You are teaching these commands from the ground!
 
We all have our own methods. I normally do mine bareback on the yard on the concrete. Normally after a good groom and relaxation time, will have played around above their heads at the mounting block first and just have a leg up and a little sit on. I have quite a few difficult ones come in and find by breaking up the process in to separate digestible chunks, ie rider with out saddle as often we find girthy horses will accept you without happier first. It's normally quite easy. I've just had one that's super sharp and took about 4 months to accept tack and a rider safely. We did all the ground work here and backed him, lightly rode him away etc. but as I have too many responsibilities currently I have sent him off to someone else to ride away properly and school him as don't really want to be decked myself when he has a sharp moment (but this is a top FEI pony model and exceptionally quick and reactive!) . It's horses for courses though and always what suits one won't suit another.
 
I was once asked to help with a horse that a p2p yard were having trouble starting, they took me to the stable they use for backing, I asked what the holes in the roof were... Last jockeys head made them!! Needless to say I stuck to my usual small arena approach. Nothing beets a rp for backing if u can get one, so safe and just the right size!
 
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In the stable AND lying down works nicely! :D

I do this sort of thing with all my youngsters from a very early age, obviously putting NO weight on their backs when they're very young. This chap was a 2 year old home-bred colt. Obviously it wasn't the first time I'd done it - that was at about 2 weeks! A year later he was dead quiet to back - and at 6 he's the quietest, best mannered stallion you'll find.

But have also done it with very reactive horses who come in for breaking - the smaller the area the quicker they learn that running is not necessary!
 
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