Backing a Nervous Horse

[Cam Eq]

I have a four year old mare that I’m currently backing. She has been perfect to lunge, long rein, tack up etc all along although quite nervous for the first few times wearing a saddle while lunging (jumping a bit, bucking etc) but now doesn’t react at all.

Perfect to lean over and sit on which I’ve been doing for a while but when I asked her to move I started having problems. At first she was very nervous, reluctant to walk then leaping forward, bucking and stopping. Then refusing to walk. Then walking with a leader holding on and someone else encouraging her with a lunge whip but she has very strong wanting to trot.
Now she responds to my leg but with an exaggerated jump. The leader can barely hold on to her. I’ve only done a few steps this way as she gets so upset.
I’m not sure if I should just start riding her without a leader as it seems to be frustrating her but I’m afraid she will take off.
I’ve backed quite a few horses but am stuck with this one
Any advice appreciated
Thanks
Camryn

 

[AmyMay]

If she understands the walk on command on the lunge, then that should translate when you’re sitting on her. So there should be absolutely no need for anyone to be behind her with a whip of any sort (No wonder she’s shooting forward…).

How long ago did you start her?

 

[Gloi]

Go back a few steps and spend more time doing various things with her on the ground.
Don't try without a leader while she is in panic mode there's a massive wait at a&e

 

[Cam Eq]

If she understands the walk on command on the lunge, then that should translate when you’re sitting on her. So there should be absolutely no need for anyone to be behind her with a whip of any sort (No wonder she’s shooting forward…).

How long ago did you start her?

She has been doing groundwork for about 3 months. She only has had 3 “rides”(being asked to walk rather than just stand) Understands the walk command on the lunge and now while ridden too.

 

[ycbm]

I’m afraid she will take off.

These few words scream at me. If you genuinely mean that you are afraid, then this is a recipe for disaster with backing a horse, as they will pick up on any fear and amplify it She sounds to me like she needs to be sent forwards and allowed to go forwards. If you are too afraid to do that, please hand her over to someone who isn't.


There is no shame in this. My days off backing a horse like that are probably over.
.

 

[AmyMay]

She has been doing groundwork for about 3 months. She only has had 3 “rides”(being asked to walk rather than just stand) Understands the walk command on the lunge and now while ridden too.

So if she understands the walk on command, why is there someone behind her with a whip?

 

[Cam Eq]

These few words scream at me. If you genuinely mean that you are afraid, then this is a recipe for disaster with backing a horse, as they will pick up on any fear and amplify it She sounds to me like she needs to be sent forwards and allowed to go forwards. If you are too afraid to do that, please hand her over to someone who isn't.


There is no shame in this. My days off backing a horse like that are probably over.
.

Sorry, not nervous but just wondering if I should be taking a step back to groundwork or if sending her forwards is the right thing or will she be more scared.

 

[Cam Eq]

So if she understands the walk on command, why is there someone behind her with a whip?

I had someone standing in the middle as if lunging on the first ride

 

[ycbm]

Sorry, not nervous but just wondering if I should be taking a step back to groundwork or if sending her forwards is the right thing or will she be more scared.

I wouldn't want someone hanging on to the front of a newly backed horse I've asked to walk on, I don't think. I feel that bottling them up like that is a recipe for an explosion. I don't think there's any doubt that on the continent they would be sending her forwards very strongly, but it's difficult to know what is right when you're not on the horse yourself.
.

 

[AmyMay]

I had someone standing in the middle as if lunging on the first ride

We’ve always just had a person at the head quietly holding the lunge line. That person asks the horse to walk on. Few steps, done. Stop, pat, resume. The rider is totally passive. No third person with a whip.

 

[Cam Eq]

I wouldn't want someone hanging on to the front of a newly backed horse I've asked to walk on, I don't think. I feel that bottling them up like that is a recipe for an explosion. I don't think there's any doubt that on the continent they would be sending her forwards very strongly, but it's difficult to know what is right when you're not on the horse yourself.
.

Thank you. Would you do this right from the beginning?

 

[ycbm]

Thank you. Would you do this right from the beginning?

I wouldn't ever send them on like I've seen them do breaking warmbloods on the continent in videos of public performances. They look scared and rushed by their own lack of balance to me.

I have my OH at the head with instructions to attempt to hold if the horse goes into orbit but let go immediately if that doesn't work. He's only had to do it once, all the others have just walked off a few steps and then I get off. The next time I do a few more steps. If I have one that runs forwards I allow it forwards but also turn it so it can't get up any speed. I've found it's stopping them that makes them buck, but in all honesty I don't have that much experience with horses which have bucked on backing, all but 2 of mine have been quiet.

I think with yours I would have her on the lunge with the handler 10 metres away, and let her go forwards on the circle. Though I'm not sure if have the courage to do that these days.
.

 

[LEC]

I don’t get on them outside and walk around. Start in the stable as don’t need anyone holding the head, then I might do it up and down stable block in American barn. That way everyone understands and the horse is channelled. Once they understand that then they might go in the arena.
I wonder if you are missing vital signs at other steps. If you lean over do they move forwards without worry? Clicker training is very useful for this stage.

 

[Red-1]

When I backed a friend's touchy mare (think took a week to get boots off once because the Velcro was scary LOL) we didn't ask for forwards at all to start with. We were in a very enclosed yard, spent ages on leaning over, did loads of leaning before asking for movement. The movement we asked for was in a turn, so one step in a turn, not forwards at all. I am talking, having her head well round to the side, almost round to me for the first step. Safety first LOL. It also helps them to make that first step naturally and voluntarily, as they are righting their balance.

I felt that, if we asked for forwards, we may get more than we bargained for. Going in a straight line was recipe for disaster, so we didn't. Many sessions, leaning and walking a step or two on a turn. Only once she freed her feet and lost the tight legged step did we enlarge the curve to a small circle.

Only once walking was totally relaxed did I actually swing a leg over and sit on. Many days of sore tummy, lying. However, the touchy horse was backed and ridden away with not an incident, by setting up for success (no straight lines) and making the steps in training small.

I think, if I had got someone behind with a whip, I wouldn't have stopped until I hit the floor! It would also have made the mare practically un-backable if that had happened, IMO. She made a nice riding horse, in time. Reliable, as she was never scared. In fact, despite the slow start, she learned quickly once she was up and running. Riding away on the lunge no issues, riding in the arena and hacking no issues, jumping no issues.

 

[IrishMilo]

I'd also do it the way @LEC suggested. Appreciate not everyone has an American barn but IIWY and what I'll be doing in a few months when getting on for the first time is doing it in the concrete barn. I find they are less inclined to muck about on concrete as they know they'll go arse over tit if they mess about. Have someone attached to the other end of a lunge but only use it to turn her in a tight circle should she start taking off.

 

[ycbm]

The movement we asked for was in a turn, so one step in a turn, not forwards at all. I am talking, having her head well round to the side, almost round to me for the first step. Safety first LOL. It also helps them to make that first step naturally and voluntarily, as they are righting their balance.

This is the way I always do it too, Red, turn them so they have to take a step to correct the balance.
.

 

[tristar]

i would continue to mount her and let her stand, it sounds like she is nervous of the leg as well i would gently bang her on the sides with my arm dismounted for a while and get someone to walk her forwards saying walk on, then ask for halt from the bit and repeat, then sit on and feel with the legs so they become `normal` to her.

i think the stand to walk on thing needs repeating from the ground, a lot, and halt do the whole thing on the ground, repeat and repeat then get on and sit touching legs but not asking to move on

putting some WELL fixed sacks of heavy ish stuff on the saddle tied top and bottom but not yet

i would be against letting her go on and seeing what happens as she has no real mouth,
until you can stop dont go

holding the head can lead to a horse going straight up with the energy if it cant go forwards, so that would be bad not many holders are quick enough to react well, when you have completely sussed her out you could have someone just walk by the head not holding

this is where instinct is so helpful in breaking, knowing when is the right moment, when the horse is ready

 

[TheMule]

I don’t have a stable so I back them in a small stoney pen- their first steps are bribed with some pony nuts and it is literally just a couple of steps, stop and praise for the first few days. I then hack them on the lead off another horse that they're used to ride and leading from. It just seems to make a bit more sense to them than going round in a circle.

 

[Hallo2012]

i never ask them to walk straight on-always teach them how to turn and yield their hind legs and cross under in hand and then when i sit up on them i ask them to walk a couple of steps one way, halt, back the other, halt. get off, get on, repeat.

do that for as long as it take them to feel happy walking small circles, you can bend them and wiggle them to get them moving without having to push,kick,smack etc

i am currently backing my 4yo and whilst he is small (13hh) and very chilled i am still starting every session wiggling him round in small circles before we branch off a bit bigger. i also spent about 15 mins just sat up on him in the stable whilst he mooched round eating but harder to do that on a big one!

if you've got a small round pen or yard-use it.

 

[Leandy]

From your description, it sounds as though you have taught her to lunge going from the voice, and then have backed and got on and suddenly expect her to go from the leg from a stand still. Have I got that right? If she goes perfectly on the lunge then why wouldn't you lunge with the rider on sitting completely passively and quiet. Even start with the rider just leaning over to get her moving with the weight of the rider. Once she is relaxed doing that, you can bring in aids from the rider and transfer the control from the person on the ground to the person on top.

 

[maya2008]

If she is worried about walking with weight on her then you could get on and have someone stand a few steps away with a bucket of feed maybe? Sit there and encourage with voice until she takes the initiative to walk forwards. Once she has had a bite, then your helper could move a little further so she takes a few steps each time to eat?

Sometimes also, the shifting sand of an arena can be harder for a young horse to find their confidence on, when first getting used to a rider’s weight. A harder surface like a field or track gives more secure footing and more confidence.

Your weight comes into consideration too. Is this horse smaller than others you have backed, or weaker? Do you have a weighted dummy or lighter jockey who would be able to help? It is easier to walk forwards carrying weight for the first time, if the weight is smaller. Then you can build up to them carrying more once they have the general idea!