Backing and breaking

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Frances28

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I have an unbacked and unbroken 3 yr old. Last weekend I introduced him to the bit, saddle and lunge line for the very first time.

Although there were some initial arguments and rodeo moves, he was happily trotting and cantering round with his tack on by the end of the afternoon. I was even successful in join-up.

I would grateful for some help and advice from those of you who have done this before. Especially on my next move i.e. when do I get on him?
 
No, not at the same time.

I had the bridle on for about 30 mins. He continued to eat some hay.

After which I put the saddle on. He didn't batter an eye lid. Only when he went in the school where he had few bucks.

He then chilled out.
 
I personally would slow down a little, with each stage, are you in a rush to have him broken in? just because he's eating his hay with the bit in the mouth, doent mean to say he's bitted and accepted it and ready for the next stage.

I personally would not be lunging him 30 minutes after you have put a bit in his mouth, certainly would not be attaching anything to his bit neither (any connection with the lunge line or side reins etc) you may spoil his mouth if you are, as your aim should be to keep his mouth soft and free from any contact at the initial bitting stage to avoid confusing the horse, resenting or back off the bit.

How old is the horse pony, what breed and what have work have you done in prepreation for the saddle/lunge work to be introduced?

Sorry to ask this but have you any idea what you are doing?
 
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I have an unbacked and unbroken 3 yr old. Last weekend I introduced him to the bit, saddle and lunge line for the very first time.

Although there were some initial arguments and rodeo moves, he was happily trotting and cantering round with his tack on by the end of the afternoon. I was even successful in join-up.



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By the end of the afternoon... how long were you lunging for? you can cause youngsters serious physical damage luning them for long periods of time specially they have not been lunged before, the need to be supple enough, have the required muscles and fitness and balanced to for each pace, its not like cantering round a field, lunge work is hard going specially in very soft arena surfaces, even if they appear to forward going and up for it at the time.
 
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have you any idea what you are doing?

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With reference to the quote above, it sounds a little patronising. There are many ways to provide help and advice, as you have shown in the earlier parts of your reply, which I will answer.

He has had a variety of things on his back i.e. numnahs, tea-towels, pillows, saddle on and off, on and off. I have also lent over him a few times without duress. I have left him at ease for this week and would like to progress this weekend. I am in no rush.

I take your point on spoiling his mouth, that is something I will hold back on for the moment. I have experienced people on the yard who recommended long reining, but FROM EXPERIENCE, I don't think it impresses as much as lunging.

My pony is 31/2, Welsh D.
 
Personally I would slow down. I know someone who bitted the horse and took it on some inhand walks. Then introduced the saddle about 2 weeks later. To teach the horse to lunge it was in a headcollar. The person was pre empting the youngster because they knew the youngster would have a good old rodeo so it was in a headcoller to avoid socking the youngster in the mouth. Then when it was established in this they lunged in full tack with a headcollar ontop of the bridle and the lunge attached to that. Then when the horse was ready and established they attached the lungeline to the bit and progressed from there.
You don't want to blow your horses brains by doing too much at once!
 
Yes good point. I omitted to mention that the lunge was done with his headcollar, not his bridle. I am sensitive to the impact a bit can have at this stage.
 
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have you any idea what you are doing?

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With reference to the quote above, it sounds a little patronising. There are many ways to provide help and advice, as you have shown in the earlier parts of your reply, which I will answer.

He has had a variety of things on his back i.e. numnahs, tea-towels, pillows, saddle on and off, on and off. I have also lent over him a few times without duress. I have left him at ease for this week and would like to progress this weekend. I am in no rush.

I take your point on spoiling his mouth, that is something I will hold back on for the moment. I have experienced people on the yard who recommended long reining, but FROM EXPERIENCE, I don't think it impresses as much as lunging.

My pony is 31/2, Welsh D.

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I honestly was not meaning to sound patronising, not at all and apologise if it sounded like that. But due to your opening post and the limited information you supplied, I was asking a geniune question, not been cocky (in case anybody else thought that)

I am always willing to give good advice and never knock anyone for asking it, but sometimes you have to dig a bit deeper to get a full picture of the situation, hence why I asked you that.
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You can't get on him until you've mouthed him - properly!

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Don't talk rubbish. Sorry but that is a silly thing to say. I back all of my youngsters bareback and with rope halters for the first 10 or 20 rides, so of course you can get on them without mouthing.

Frances; what you have done is fairly standard at training and dealing yards so don't be too disheartened. I take much longer but then I am not in any rush to get them sold and out the door. If you are planning to keep this little guy then yes, I'd agree, slow down a little. Little and often works better than lots and for a long time. At 3 they often have the attention span of a goldfish, so a number of 5 or 10 minute sessions are often far more conducive to their training.
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I also wouldn't lunge however. I prefer long reining too, especially at this age.
 
Thanks Tia - I was a little disheartened but it is great to hear so many opinions.

You are right, I will slow down. I am not a dealer and so there's no rush. Just not sure what to do next. If I have put the bit in and saddled up.....
 
Well he won't understand the bit just yet, so you can practise directional movements in hand with him. Then move onto long reining with a bit in; in a confined area so you don't lose him. You can saddle him for this if you wish but make sure your longlines are not going to be caught up in his tack if he muffs around. Once he is competent and accepting of this, you can take him into larger areas.

Getting on him and practising all he has learned on the ground; just do in a similar fashion to above. Again once he has this down to a tee, you can move into larger spaces and then eventually go out for short walking rides.

Most of all have fun, and make sure he has an enjoyable time too. This is the time to help sort out any issues he may have in his ridden life, so the most important piece of advice I would give you is, start as you mean to go on. Do not accept him walking forward or messing around when you are tacking up or getting on - these little things will help him in future and make your life much easier once you move on to bigger and better things.
 
I helped a lady back her horse once. It was in a headcollar and bareback. I led her around the yard for about 10mins. First time the lil guy was ridden (he had had a saddle sit on him, a bridle, been lunged and longreined etc, just never sat on!) and this little guy didn't bat an eyelid and was amazing.
He got a few polos too
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No bit needed
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Izzi
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Don't know what the roads are like round you, but we used to tack up the youngsters and lead them from a safe old cob, it was brilliant for getting them used to going alongside another horse and used to their tack and when we did ride them out it was no big deal. You have to have some quiet lanes for this though!
 
I have too just bought a 3.5 year old sec d, you must show pictures - I had a few problems with her in the first few weeks but she is really coming no now - I lunge her in walk and trot for 15 mins once a week she gets ridden 3 times a week with a variety of hacking and schooling only ever in walk and trot.

I was having problems with her being rude so put her in side reins for the lunging session (10 mins) and she is fantastic really listens and works correctly - we put her in side reins (loosely) to see if we could get her to put the two things together whilst ridden (accept the bit and listen) as she was throwing her head in the air and looking very uncomfortable.

8 weeks in - she now accepts the bit on the lunge, schooling and searches for the bit whilst hacking, we do this on a longish rein to give her the idea of chill out time!

She is going to do her first walk and trot test soon - this is to get her used to travelling and show atmospheres she is getting dependant on my other little fella.

But to give you an idea she had been backed 4-5 weeks before i got her and had been hacked out only - she has been going approx 3 months now
 
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Ok - polos it is! I will try and sit on his back this weekend. No tack, just me and see how it goes!

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I would get someone to lead you inhand just around the yard - a familiar environemt, for about 5-10 mins. Short and sweet
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Good luck!
 
We back horses (about 50 in the past 12 months) so I'll run you through how we do it - assuming starting with a 3-4 year old (although we've had them as old as 10) that has had reasonably good handling to that point.

Times are approximate and will vary depending on the horse - and how much time pressure there is on us to finish the job.

Week 1. Start with lunging from a cavesson and teaching the horse voice commands for walk, trot, canter and WHOA! (the latter the most important!) During that first week we will introduce first a roller, and then a saddle. Usually towards the end of the first week we put on the bridle, and once lunging and voice commands are established, will lunge off the bit (line through the inside bit ring, over the head and clipped to the other side.) Lunging is done mainly in walk and trot - on a BIG circle - and for no more than 10 minutes - horse ALWAYS in brushing boots as legs tend to be a bit 'everywhere'.

Week 2. Continue to get the horse as responsive as possible to voice commands in both upward and downward transitions. Start jumping up (in the air) on either side of the horse both from the ground and from the mounting block. He must stand still at this stage. Once he's happy with this, the rider will jump across the saddle from the mounting block a couple of times and he'll be led forward a few strides, then a few more. This is the point where more time may be taken if the horse is very nervous or tense (to the horse, instinct says the person across the saddle is a predator on his back!)

As soon as the horse is reasonably relaxed with rider on back - or sooner if the horse shows signs of wanting to buck - the trainer (me) sends the horse out on the lunge (rider has a neck strap but NOT reins!) Rider's job at this point is to sit still! We find this eliminates bucking - horses are a 'flight or fight' animal! If they can 'run' they won't 'fight' (buck!) If they run, I just use voice to calm them and they soon slow down.

Once the horse is happy with the rider on his back - and is responding to the voice aids (initially from me - then from the rider) the rider introduces some leg aids in conjunction with the voice aids, and then takes the reins (still on lunge.) My job at that point is just to be a life-line - the rider does the work. Then once all is going well, the lunge-line is removed.

Our primary goal at this point is getting the horse going forward - with the lightest possible rein aids for steering and voice only to stop!

We don't longrein youngsters - I sure as hell can't run fast enough to kee u with a youngster who doesn't understand that nasty piece of steel in his mouth means stop - more mouths are spoiled than 'made' by longreining IMHO!

As soon as reasonably safe, youngster is then taken hacking - initially with a sensible comanion, then solo. We do have a very short bit of back road to negotiate to get into 800 acres of woodland where they can be hacked reasonably safely.

The whole process normally takes 4-6 weeks.

This chap took 5 weeks in total - and is now at home and doing well. Here he was 2nd day off the lunge - note neckstrap - he was incredibly active (dressage career planned!) and the important thing was to ensure forward movement wasn't impeded.

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This is him 2 days later - already more responsive and listening to his rider.

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Needless to say, the skill of the rider in these early days is paramount!!

Sorry - that's a bit of an essay - but backing horses is NOT an easy subject to do in 500 words!
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(nor is re-educating the ones who haven't been backed correctly - and that's far harder!)
 
Goodness - you are very generous with your advice. Thank you very much. I have printed off what you have said and will read it a few more times on my way home. Thank you thank you thank you!
 
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You can't get on him until you've mouthed him - properly!

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poppycock

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So you're the joyrider who get on without brakes or laterals? And as for leading - fine until something goes wrong - I'll admit to not being able to hold down a 16.2 TB when I'm on the floor. But I know if I start them properly I can do it from on top - IF and only IF the mouthing is completed properly.
 
[ And as for leading - fine until something goes wrong - I'll admit to not being able to hold down a 16.2 TB when I'm on the floor. But I know if I start them properly I can do it from on top - IF and only IF the mouthing is completed properly.

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Never had a problem and done it with 100s.

Now go wash that green hair
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