Backing/breaking - how do you do it?

[Patterdale]

Currently starting a youngster for the first time in years, and different facilities means I can't follow my usual routine as easily.
Got me thinking about the different methods used - so just out of interest, how do YOU do it?
And how long would you take over each part (generally speaking)?

 

[Peter7917]

Only done the one. Walking alongside, one arm over the saddle with a rein in each hand. Nudge of the hip to walk on. Tonnes of walking out doing this walking both sides. Lots of voice. By the time I got on the pony knew what walk on meant and was used to the pressure on his side meaning go forward.

Shouldn't think you could do this method with anything much over 14hh though!

 

[Rosiejazzandpia]

Walking out, in hand hacking and long reining. I get good voice commands working and build from there.

Long rope around belly and flapped around head and neck. Then surcingle and saddle pad, build up to a saddle, doesn't have to be done up tight or be a nice saddle, just a spare breaking saddle will do. Stirrups down when leading out to get them used to something flapping by their sides. I always use a Mullen mouth happy mouth for bitting, repeating and repeating until the process becomes natural for the horse.

I usually lean over bareback/saddled (depending on the horse) with a friend at the horses head. Then add a little everyday without overwhelming the horse, not afraid to take a step back if anything upsets the horse.

Once on and capable of steering and stopping I get straight out hacking in woodland. Not too far or too fast, and I always have OH or friend walking with me.
Don't have a school and never really needed one, you can teach everything out hacking at this stage.

Did this for my last horse, doing this again now with my baby, she's too immature to be ridden but is loving her walks around the village. She's met cars, bikes, lorrys and a bus. She's met scary, flappy noisey things and seems to be taking it in her stride. If you do this carefully you usually won't have a battle on your hands, although some youngsters do test you.

I'm careful not to do too much too fast and won't lunge until she's older and stopped growing so rapidly .

 

[Dave's Mam]

If you are on Facebook, have a look on the page on my signature & scroll right back to May of last year & you'll see how Dave was backed & started. Not by me (well, I sat on him first) but all the other stuff to build up & follow on & the timeline is pretty clear.

 

[katastrophykat]

Mine are used as resting posts for my arms from being little and are used to surcingles etc from rug wearing for shows as babies, so the progression to saddle or harness is fairly easy. Mine walk out in hand, then in hand with a bit and open bridle then a closed bridle and harness (they all ride and drive) before I start longreining. To start longreining I use a spare person and double hand pony with long lead rope/lunge line and start to introduce stop/turn aids alongside voice and gradually work me and second handler back down the horse until they can pass me the second line. Then loads of longreining and starting to pull before ideally putting them in false shafts and into the carriage. The point where I start to pull tyres etc is usually when they’re backed as well. Then riding away goes alongside being put into the carriage and they never know any different to being a ride and drive. After that, lots of out and about and straight lines to build impulsion before we start to tidy things up a bit. Turning away depends on the horse or pony, I don’t always do it but I do downsize the work to once or twice a week over the first winter anyway if they’re not turned away.

 

[Patterdale]

Thanks all - anyone else?

 

[Hallo2012]

i think it depends on the horse really.

normally we go through the fairly standard steps of tack on, lunging,long reining, leaning over, then lunged with a rider.

current one is only 13hh and very accepting of human madness so long before i started lunging i was sitting on him bareback and walking around the yard. Ive done no long reining as he just chews everything and is a nuisance, but plenty of in hand work so he understands leg and hand.

im able to get straight on an walk round the school a bit so next weekend im going to lead him out down the road for 20 mins then mount up and ride home (with company) as i just feel like he will enjoy that and be fine but i absolutely could NOT have done that with the 2 warmbloods we last backed!

know your horse/pony!

 

[ihatework]

I would generally pick up the phone and book them in with a trusted breaking yard who does this day in, day out for their living. But then I only really have sports horses and the early stages are crucial. I’m too heavy and windy to be the jockey, and whilst I’ve done some breaking work I don’t do it regularly enough to feel the need to do it myself.

 

[ester]

I'm amazed that anyone thinks a 2yo pony needs to walk down the road for 20 minutes... so yeah, I wouldn't be doing it that way

sorry patters, just gobsmacked at what is expected of some and what people seem to think is ok.

 

[Cortez]

I'm amazed that anyone thinks a 2yo pony needs to walk down the road for 20 minutes... so yeah, I wouldn't be doing it that way

sorry patters, just gobsmacked at what is expected of some and what people seem to think is ok.

A 20 minute walk is not beyond any horse/pony, at any age; they're not invalids!

 

[ester]

I didn't suggest it was beyond them, just that they don't need to do it. I don't understand what the long term benefit for a 2 yo native is to be ridden for 20 minutes and genuinely don't know anyone who does this with natives so young.

I would love to know why people think it is beneficial.

 

[pippixox]

I backed 2 new forests a few years ago (ousted turned 4), on my own with no facilities. first I did a little bit of in hand walks to build confidence away from the other horses, often just 10 minutes, little and often, for a few weeks. then long lined with a lunge caveson, as they were still getting used to having a bit in their mouth. then introduced bit. I long lined with a saddle on and thread the lunge lines threw the stirrups so they get used to 'legs' flapping around their bellies. probably did that for about a month so they adjusted to a bit of contact and voice commands as well as tack. didn't do much lunging except a bit in walk. then I would just lean over the saddle next to a mounting block after a long line session. I quietly popped on their back after about 4-6 weeks of ground work and did circles around the farm barns and a field. just 5 minutes at first. I did have a friend on the ground when I started to walk them a bit further.

I'm not anti sending a away, but I think it depends on the horse and where you chose. I really enjoyed the bond I built backing them myself, but also was happy to make it a slow and steady process. Professionals can often get faster results I guess, and I don't have a school, but they were backed to hack- which is their main job, and probably the best thing for 4 year olds not to be doing lots of circles.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I didn't suggest it was beyond them, just that they don't need to do it. I don't understand what the long term benefit for a 2 yo native is to be ridden for 20 minutes and genuinely don't know anyone who does this with natives so young.

I would love to know why people think it is beneficial.

yeah, I dont know anyone with the bred of natives I have that would do it with a 2yo ridden, plenty take them out in hand though. I do know someone who backs older natives and takes them straight out on the roads with others (they are sued to going out in hand with them but not longreining and no lunging). I know someone else who used to back and get them straight out on the roads too-after lots of longreining (appys). You have to know your ponies imo but it works very well with the ones that I know (ie 4yos or older). for sport horse types? phone a pro

 

[Hallo2012]

I'm amazed that anyone thinks a 2yo pony needs to walk down the road for 20 minutes... so yeah, I wouldn't be doing it that way

sorry patters, just gobsmacked at what is expected of some and what people seem to think is ok.

is that aimed at mine?

hes 3 this year, and if he carries on doing a 20-30min walk once a week for the next 4 months i think that will work far better than suddenly cramming it all come autumn.
because he's so well handled in bite sized chunks, ive barely had to do any lunging (just twice to get him used to flappy stirrups albeit he trotted about 4 circles and i realised it wasnt going to be a problem so stopped) and tbh i think that is again better than having a semi feral one in the autumn broncing and leaping around on a circle.
he's admittedly the easiest pony i had and i honestly dont think my 7 stone 10 walking on a long rein for 10-20mins once a week is doing any harm

 

[ester]

Can I ask why you think it is better than cramming it all in come autumn as he seems to be taking to it so quickly anyway? I don't really know of any semi-feral youngsters which would be broncing or leaping around on a circle and I don't see why you would think your little lad would if left doing in hand work but not ridden?

Or why would there would be a rush in autumn? what does he need to be able to do by Christmas? I just cannot imagine not leaving a pony until they were at least heading towards being 4 (given that most natives are born not very near January for obvious reasons) and that is certainly my experience of what most native folk do, most wouldn't even be doing much by next autumn and get them going in the spring quite happily, with no broncing.

 

[Four Seasons]

I've broken in a few, some how I like to do it and some how the client wanted me to. I definitely prefer my way, as this causes less to no stress and it's a friendlier approach, makes the horses want to work with you, not against you.

I like to give it a month or maybe 2 before actual riding. In these two months, (if the horse is already known with bridle) I'll start with lunging it just on a bridle. At the end of the lunging session, I'll play around. Pat it everywhere on it's back, underneath it's belly. Eventually jumping up and down next to the horse on either side. Horse needs to remain relaxed at all times and I would even like the horse to show some interest in what I'm doing. After a few days of this, I'll slowly introduce a lunging girth. First time I walk in-hand with them, do a bit of in-hand work (reinback, halt, etc.). Once they seem relaxed, I'll lunge them in this for a couple of days, after every session I'll loosen the girth off and pat the girth on it's back, belly, shoulders etc. Also I'll jump next to the horse again and kind of lean on the horse with my weight, so they know what it feels like to have some weight leaning on them.

After about a week and a half week of this, I'll introduce a rope, to attach from the girth to the bridle and back. I start very loosely, as too much contact straight away will scare them in taking the contact. I just want them too feel that something is there and that something isn't scary at all. Teaching them to accept contact will usually takes me about 10 days. In this week I also introduce a saddle, again after every session, I mess around with it. Flapping it around, dropping stirrups, patting on the saddle, behind the saddle, wiggle the saddle around. All of this makes the horse used to noises and the creakiness of a saddle.

So 3 weeks has passed and the horse is now used to the saddle and some basic contact. This is the week I ever so slowly introduce a rider. It'll start with 2 days of just standing next to the horse, jumping, leaning on it and hanging on top, (body over the saddle), we'll also walk a couple of steps while hanging on the horse. Once the horse is relaxed doing this, we start with actually putting a foot in the stirrup and climbing half way over, let the foot out of the stirrup and moving the leg towards the horses hind and back. So still not on top of the horse, but getting the horse used to a leg swinging towards his hind and on top of it. Again, once relaxed doing this it's time to actually mount. Doing all of the above first, making sure the horse is relaxed, I'll get on, reward the horse and dismount. I repeat this a couple of times. I practice this step a lot, as I absolutely hate horses who have mounting and dismounting problems. All of the above will take me about 4-5 days in total. Once the horse is relaxed with all of this, I get on and teach it the aids. Always on a lunge, as I have 0 control yet and just in case something happens. The horse should already know voice commands 200%. I teach them "walk" "trot "canter" and "ho". They also know that if I click, they need to move a big faster.

So on a lunge, I apply my leg and say "walk" and also let the person holding the horse walk to horse on, as this give the horse reassurance. If the horse reacts, I say "good boy" or "good girl". They'll know through the tone of my voice what is good, as they've learnt through the lunging experience. I sit deeply and push my weight through the stirrups and say "ho" and they stop. Again, praising them. To teach the horse this basic thing will take one session or two sessions. Once they know how to go forwards and stand still, the person helping me will lunge the horse on a circle and I'll be all of my own. The person helping will hold a lunge whip and I'll ask for a trot and when the horse responds to my aids, again I praise. And so on for canter etc. The only thing I don't have a this point is steering, which is ok for me. Once basic gaits are on there, I'll let the person unclip me. From there it's basically left is all my weight on my left seat bone and my left hand to the inside (never towards me) and same is for going right. Horses understand this very easily, prefer this way to teaching them in-hand, as I'd rather steer them with my weight then with my hands.

A fast learner will know all of this in 4-5 weeks, a slower more nervous horse will take up to 8 weeks. I work with hot blooded dressage warmbloods, but this works everytime as I never rush anything and always exaggerate motions, so they are used to clumsy or less handy riders.

If you've never backed a horse before, it would be smart to send him away and ask if you can be a part of the process, this way you have a pro helping you and you gain experience in backing.

 

[ester]

That's really interesting about the steering FS. so all the inhand work is about contact etc and you don't do anything directional until you are on top?

 

[JFTDWS]

I never have routine / reliable assistance, so I do everything on the ground I can to prepare them. I don't lunge them, and I didn't always have access to facilities, so I'd often lead out and about in hand and off another horse, and do a lot of long reining. I also introduce them to "stuff" in hand - flappy stuff, tarpaulins over them, etc. I don't tend to go for the leaning over bit, as it's pretty daft without someone holding the head - but because they're all used to me beside them on another horse, I often lean / flap at them from there. I also tend to bribe them once I'm on - with natives, this is a nice way of having a horse who stands for mounting, and is happy to let you up!

If I had a blood horse, or a type who was reactive / likely to be silly, I would send them away to one of a few trusted, but experience pros.

My two highlands were backed at 3, but my mare was backed (not by me) at 4. I wouldn't back anything else before 4 now, I don't think.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

For Skylla, in her two year old year she learnt how not to be a feral horse, but to be polite and well handled.

In her three year old year, she did in-hand showing so she got out to see the world, once she was actually three and her teeth had settled, she was bitted and long-lined. During the course of a month or so in the autumn, she got used to be lent on and then sat on and walking round. She progressed to walk, trot and canter and hacking before being turned away until the following year.

There was no need to rush her, she learnt each stage and by the time sitting on was required she was pretty easy going about it all (preferred sitting on to leaning but that was her only reluctance).

I didn't do much lunging, asides from the stirrups down flapping a couple of times, as preferred to long-line, but she was a good student about it all .

 

[DabDab]

Depends on the Horse, my mood, facilities available etc.

Generally I will lunge/freeschool/long rein to get them used to voice aids. Then introduce to saddle while static. Then saddle while being walked around. Then bridle with bit while in a table and eating a bucket feed. Then lunging while tacked up with stirrups flapping. On third or fourth time lunging in tack I'll get on at then end, getting on and off three or four times. Then the next time I'll get on and walk about a bit. Then build up from there.

I stick to quite a strict routine of doing things for about a week and then start mixing it up - getting on 8n different places, standing still/walking for different lengths of time etc.

After we've got brakes, turning and go forwards reliable in the school I'll take them out somewhere off road to introduce hacking.

If the process doesn't get halted by a growth spurt or weather or time constraints then all that will take about three weeks to a month

 

[Four Seasons]

That's really interesting about the steering FS. so all the inhand work is about contact etc and you don't do anything directional until you are on top?

Yeah. I don't even focus on the contact inhand, it's just them knowing that something it there and they aren't scared of it and they feel comfortable with it. The steering comes pretty easy this way, if you use your weight, the horse has to go that way. In some unusual cases, some horses just don't understand. Then I'll let someone walk in front of the horse and make the person go left, while I'm steering left. After 5 minutes of this the horse seems to have a bright lightbulb on top of it's head and gets it instantly. As long as I'm in an enclosed space, this is my way of doing it.

 

[DabDab]

Yeah. I don't even focus on the contact inhand, it's just them knowing that something it there and they aren't scared of it and they feel comfortable with it. The steering comes pretty easy this way, if you use your weight, the horse has to go that way. In some unusual cases, some horses just don't understand. Then I'll let someone walk in front of the horse and make the person go left, while I'm steering left. After 5 minutes of this the horse seems to have a bright lightbulb on top of it's head and gets it instantly. As long as I'm in an enclosed space, this is my way of doing it.

Yes, Ditto this, it's one of the reasons I'm not such a fan of long reining unbacked horses, as you don't really want them to fixate on the direct rein aid as the cue for turning - I just don't like the feel so much of a horse trained that way.

 

[Hallo2012]

Can I ask why you think it is better than cramming it all in come autumn as he seems to be taking to it so quickly anyway? I don't really know of any semi-feral youngsters which would be broncing or leaping around on a circle and I don't see why you would think your little lad would if left doing in hand work but not ridden?

Or why would there would be a rush in autumn? what does he need to be able to do by Christmas? I just cannot imagine not leaving a pony until they were at least heading towards being 4 (given that most natives are born not very near January for obvious reasons) and that is certainly my experience of what most native folk do, most wouldn't even be doing much by next autumn and get them going in the spring quite happily, with no broncing.

i dont think mine would be, precisely because i've done tiny bits once or twice a week.... hes eased in to work and working life with no culture shock. i wouldnt leave him until autumn having done nothing though as then i would expect him to be a bit more worried than he is now?

the more i learn the more i think that starting a bit earlier in the 3yo year and plodding along at a snails pace works better than leaving them until they are closer to 4, bigger, stronger, and more settled in a herd life with no desire to get an office job. Ive actually seen a lot more problems that way than this way and as long as no young horse is being lunged to death, ragged round in tiny circles or asked to work to an unfairly advanced level, i think its a personal choice issue more than anything i will be doing this one with little to no ground helper (and the helper i do have isnt horsey) so its easier for me to keep chipping away over 12 months than 4

i know plenty of native ponies working on the same schedule to mine,admittedly more the ones being produced as sport ponies rather than pure native showing. mine will do 4yo BD classes in 2019.

 

[MagicMelon]

I backed my current competition horse purely on my own with no help from anyone (nobody else was even around - not ideal). She wasnt young, I got her unbacked at 8 so I didnt have to worry about her being physically immature. I began with getting her used to flappy saddlecloths being thrown onto her back as this was something she found a bit worrying. I then lunged her a lot slowly moving onto adding more flappy things under her roller (just to get rid of her spookiness), did a bit of long reining round the field. I took her for the odd walk in hand down the road but have never long lined on the road as Im just not brave enough! Then started getting her used to me leaning over saddle, foot in stirrup etc. then on. I got on the first few times in the stable purely because I didnt have anyone to hold her and Ive just got an open field to work in - although I did tape off a section once I began staying on and asking for walk etc. Apart from one episode where we'd been walking around no problem for several days, but that day Id got on and straight away she'd hurled me off TWICE in very quick succession, she has always been a dream and is a brilliant hack etc. too. I dont follow the traditional rules as I know many people would always long line down the road or at least hack out with another horse to begin with - I dont have this benefit as I keep my horses at my own place so I just got on with it and Ive never had issues with previous ones either (although those ones Ive had a helper on the ground to help hold).

 

[ester]

i dont think mine would be, precisely because i've done tiny bits once or twice a week.... hes eased in to work and working life with no culture shock. i wouldnt leave him until autumn having done nothing though as then i would expect him to be a bit more worried than he is now?
.

yes I definitely didn't mean doing nothing , plenty of the groundwork so no culture shock whenever the riding starts, well there shouldn't be anyway. It is just the actual sitting on and riding at such a young age I don't get.
For the most part I've only ever seen any young welshies pick things up really quickly, and with a good attitude to work and not much drama regardless of how much input they have had as a baby.

 

[Hallo2012]

i suppose in my mind, there is little diff to me doing 20/30min walk out in hand (which i DO think more 2/3yo should do a bit of instead of being a field potato) and him walking for 15/20min carrying me (sub 8 stone) on a long rein..................perhaps if there was a bigger weight issue i would feel differently but to my mind it doesnt affect him and actually gets him used to human carrying in a very slow, steady way and all the random human stuff that comes with it. if he was a more worried character again i think i would do it differently as i simply couldnt hop on and plod off safely without lunging etc.

 

[OldFogie]

I'd agree with almost everything that Four Seasons has said - all except the sending away bit - great if you could send away to Four Seasons but not every "proffessional" if that proffessional - it just means they get paid.

Spent several years on a yard with a stud attached - Trekahner and Warmbloods, some very big and capable! All were extensively handled from virtually the minute they were born and I don't remember any of them kicking up a fuss - it was just like a Monty Roberts show only much slower.

 

[daffy44]

I used to work as a backing rider, and I also did pretty much what Four Seasons said. When its my own horse, i do a bit more faffing around in the three yr old year before backing eg; letting the horse investigate open umbrellas, walking over tarps etc, bit of loading and unloading, that sort of thing, but the actual backing process I'll probably start nov ish of the three yr old year. This is primarily with well bred warmbloods, both show jumpers and dressage horses.

I have also worked in Ireland doing breakers, and it wasnt like that all!! Much speedy, much less to how I would choose to do it!

 

[ycbm]

A 20 minute walk is not beyond any horse/pony, at any age; they're not invalids!

It was 20 minutes walked out and 20 minutes ridden back, 13.2 section B under approaching nine stone of adult and tack, and the pony is not yet three. I don't know many people who would do that, not that it will necessarily cause any harm, but what's the rush? To get a head start to win four year old ridden classes, maybe.

 

[ycbm]

My baby turns three in early May and is bulking up nicely now he has been gelded. He will be strong enough to sit on this spring/summer, I think. He's well handled.

He will be bridled and saddled. Walked about. Run around. Run around with the stirrups down. Leaned over. Sat on. Led away. Ridden away.

Each stage to take as long as it takes for him to be blasé about it. I've had some horses where that was half an hour, and some (much fewer) where it was three weeks.