Backing/breaking - how do you do it?

[pennyturner]

I didn't suggest it was beyond them, just that they don't need to do it. I don't understand what the long term benefit for a 2 yo native is to be ridden for 20 minutes and genuinely don't know anyone who does this with natives so young.

I would love to know why people think it is beneficial.

I'm not suggesting it's necessary, or routine, but I did back one of my NF colts at 2. He was very very quiet, and we were fortunate enough to have suitable child riders available, so we took him out with us on short hacks around town with the others. This was mainly to settle his friend, who was older, and quite messed up. We were breaking him at the time and he needed as much reassurance as we could give him. Doing the easy colt alongside made the it less stressful for him. The result... by rising 4 easy boy was fully made, 100% in traffic and suitable for a novice - and his friend, who could easily have been a lost cause turned out well too - in fact he's one half of my driving pair.

Doing him early didn't cause any problems - but then his rider was an 8yo child, and he was doing little more than stretching his legs and taking a look at the world. Absolutely no circles on surfaces, which is where the damage is done, IMO.

 

[paddy555]

i suppose in my mind, there is little diff to me doing 20/30min walk out in hand (which i DO think more 2/3yo should do a bit of instead of being a field potato) and him walking for 15/20min carrying me (sub 8 stone) on a long rein..................perhaps if there was a bigger weight issue i would feel differently but to my mind it doesnt affect him and actually gets him used to human carrying in a very slow, steady way and all the random human stuff that comes with it. if he was a more worried character again i think i would do it differently as i simply couldnt hop on and plod off safely without lunging etc.

I agree that 2/3 yo should be doing stuff rather than being a field potato, however for me that would not include someone on top. Many 3yo's are not actually 3. Many are born later in the year, eg apr/may time. So actually this is riding a 2yo.
Mine is currently 3, well 2 years and 8 months. He won't be ridden until he is 4, that is 4 full years of life not this time next year. There is no rush. I don't expect by doing this he will turn into a raving unbackable lunatic by either the Autumn or next spring. If by any chance he does and is impossible to back then quite simply my work so far has not been good enough.

 

[Dave's Mam]

Sorry, but I would not be sitting on a native of that age at all. Plenty more things to do.
Natives mature slowly & bones are not yet fused, even nearly.

 

[katastrophykat]

I’ll be honest, I wouldn’t be sitting on a sec B at that age either, or at least not more than a couple of stones. My 2yo daughter sits on her 2yo pony to give him a pat (on and off and held on to) for maybe 15-20 seconds. She sits on her 3yo pony with me holding her to walk once around the yard, about 15 meters, and to give him a fuss for 20-30 secs. I’ve arranged for the 3yo to be backed by a very lightweight but competent child right at the end of summer if he looks ready for sitting on then, and he’s going for some lead rein training next Jan at rising 4, again a very light child rider just to install basics ready for some local shows. Again, all subject to change if he doesn’t look like I think he will by then. If he needs more time, he will have it.

 

[ycbm]

Yes, Ditto this, it's one of the reasons I'm not such a fan of long reining unbacked horses, as you don't really want them to fixate on the direct rein aid as the cue for turning - I just don't like the feel so much of a horse trained that way.

I don't long rein because I don't see, apart from having the bit in its mouth, the relationship between aids given on a fifteen foot long rein from a height down past the wither, to the rein aids we want the horse to understand when ridden, with much shorter reins and hands carried far higher.

 

[paddy555]

I don't long rein because I don't see, apart from having the bit in its mouth, the relationship between aids given on a fifteen foot long rein from a height down past the wither, to the rein aids we want the horse to understand when ridden, with much shorter reins and hands carried far higher.

I long rein for miles. No bit. I go everywhere on long reins I want to ride. Past traffic, through farmyards, over the common, up and down banks and ditches, down very steep and stony tracks, through streams, through bogs and through herds of feral ponies. Most of the 3yo summer is spent long reining. In company and alone. In front, behind, leaving his friend and the other horse trotting off and leaving him. By the time I get on at 4 the horse has done everything I need it to do under saddle and will be bombproof with it all. The only thing he has to get used to is carrying me.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I long-lined Skylla so she would go out and be bold, after Topaz who is scared of the world I wanted a brave one lol. As a result she is a fab hack, will go anywhere, past anything and rarely spooks, she also took to the ridden steering aids brilliantly and is very sensitive to the seat aids, so the long-lining for us was very beneficial .

 

[DabDab]

I do long rein youngsters sometimes (as per original reply), but it depends on the horse - my little one I will get out and about on some long lines this year (age 3), as she's a bit of a scaredy nardey and I think it would do her good. The other two I haven't/wouldn't, because the one that will be 4 this year is so bold I don't think she'll need it (though I have walked her in hand with her leading and me with arm draped over her back to guide), and she hasn't got the best mouth naturally so would rather teach her rein aids from on top. And the big horse was petrified of traffic when young, as well as being big and unwieldy, so I would much rather tackle the traffic issue when on top than with two long lines while out behind him.

I've never had a horse that was bad to hack unless I bought them that way so I'm not sure I could decide what makes for a better hacking horse at the end of it. The worst hacking horse I know currently though spent most of her 4yo year on a set of long lines - yet she's been a nappy spooky mess to hack pretty much since she was backed

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Interesting DabDab, maybe it's just nature then, though I was taking no chances after Topaz :lol:, poor Skylla even got subjected to the choas of in-hand showing to make sure she could cope with anything :lol:!

 

[ycbm]

I do long rein youngsters sometimes (as per original reply), but it depends on the horse - my little one I will get out and about on some long lines this year (age 3), as she's a bit of a scaredy nardey and I think it would do her good. The other two I haven't/wouldn't, because the one that will be 4 this year is so bold I don't think she'll need it (though I have walked her in hand with her leading and me with arm draped over her back to guide), and she hasn't got the best mouth naturally so would rather teach her rein aids from on top. And the big horse was petrified of traffic when young, as well as being big and unwieldy, so I would much rather tackle the traffic issue when on top than with two long lines while out behind him.

I've never had a horse that was bad to hack unless I bought them that way so I'm not sure I could decide what makes for a better hacking horse at the end of it. The worst hacking horse I know currently though spent most of her 4yo year on a set of long lines - yet she's been a nappy spooky mess to hack pretty much since she was backed

I'd do it in the same circumstances if I had roads that were safe. My new boy looks bold and curious at the moment, we'll have to see .....

 

[ycbm]

I long rein for miles. No bit. I go everywhere on long reins I want to ride. Past traffic, through farmyards, over the common, up and down banks and ditches, down very steep and stony tracks, through streams, through bogs and through herds of feral ponies. Most of the 3yo summer is spent long reining. In company and alone. In front, behind, leaving his friend and the other horse trotting off and leaving him. By the time I get on at 4 the horse has done everything I need it to do under saddle and will be bombproof with it all. The only thing he has to get used to is carrying me.

I envy you your energy and I can totally see the sense of that.

 

[DabDab]

Interesting DabDab, maybe it's just nature then, though I was taking no chances after Topaz :lol:, poor Skylla even got subjected to the choas of in-hand showing to make sure she could cope with anything :lol:!

Well it certainly means you get to know them and know how they will react to various stuff before getting on - forewarned is forearmed and all that :lol:

 

[Sukistokes2]

I've started a few, usually I like to handle them as a youngster, leading, grooming and general handling. My last lad was led between fields, from a year old with another horse. It was about a mile on a single track road, he learnt quickly by leading him with an older mare. As he grew up I continued leading him out, grooming, loading, tying up,long lining all the things I wanted him to do when older. At about three I got him used to tack and led him about tacked up. Once he was four he was lunged and then gently backed in the field. Once he was walking about with a rider we were out on the road, still led. He quickly picked it up and was soon hacking out quietly on his own. Once we had established the hacking, we introduced another horse but not every time, that took the summer, usually doing stuff twice a week. I then turned him away over the winter to grow. He was bought back into work the following June, started like he'd never stopped. This time I introduced school work and I got him out to a few dressage shows. He hacked and schooled at walk and trot, with small canters out until late autumn and then as he was growing and it showed, I again turned him away. Year six he had his Kevin year, mainly due to a sticky stifle but we survived as it was minor. When he hit 7 he reverted to his normal self , which is star material. He is a bold, forward, quick thinking horse. not at all a ploddy cob. He can be ridden by novices, children, young adults and experience riders. Sadly he never grew enough for me so I found him a nice loan mummy and they are doing great, she is a novice and he looks after her.
My advice would be take it slow and steady, don't be afraid to give them time to grow. If they are playing up its because they are in pain, uncomfortable or do not understand, they are not naughty. Do not be afraid to get professional help if you are having trouble and your saddler is your best friend, check it often, your horse will change shape.

 

[SEL]

For me it totally depends on the horse and these days I am too old, creaky and nervous to want to get on babies!

I had some interesting characters to back when I worked in Australia in my 20s, with limited facilities. Plus I quickly realised that if I didn't crack on and get them earning their keep under saddle then the local cowboy would do the job. His way of backing horses was to jump on, dig his spurs in and sit the bucks until they were too tired to buck any more.

My favourite was a Sec C that my friend owned who was super easy. She'd been out showing him since he was 2 so he was brave and well handled. Kids had scrambled over him, so getting on was very straight forward. I teach them to learn to move with weight for direction and this little boy understood leg aids pretty quickly too - plus he loved hacking on his own from very early on.

My own mare was less straightforward. I knew she'd been over backwards when a previous home had tried to start her under saddle but it turned out she'd had a number of people 'start' her and all had failed. No idea what they'd been playing at because she was nowhere near ready enough for a rider when I got given her. She was nasty on the ground too - legs and teeth from all angles. With her I used the dually instead of a bit when I first got on her. I had no idea what had caused her to go over backwards and didn't want any mouth pressure. Plus I was stirrup less for quite some time just in case I needed to bail out quickly! To be fair to her she was a lot easier under saddle than I was expecting. First 8 weeks were a doddle then she was turned out in a field for a break, tied up and the whole PSSM thing hit........

In fact I think it has been the stress of dealing with her that has probably put me off young horses.

 

[dominobrown]

I have started around 50 now. I have also been a backig rider.
I am an advocate fro long reining. I dont do an awful lot of lunging. I like to get them under control, relaxed and happy on the ground before I get on.
I dont like to be too quiet... lots a flapping around, long lines and ropes all over so they are used to stuff being everywherw. A lot of falls with youngsters are when things like a saddle slips, or something is not in the right place or someone moves too fast or becomes out of balance and the horse panicks, normally because the horse is too used to everything being perfect.
I like to get them hacking up a 'road' (gravel track or around yard) begore goung in the school.
I dojt tend to canter under saddle until a while in and this woukd be out on hack normally, not in the school, as it requires a lot of balance which most young horses dont have. If it has to be in a school just one straight side will do.
I hate to say it.. I used to work in bloodstock and back yearlings for racing. This is a learning experience. Its very different backing a horse at that age... I did barely any lunging, and mostly in walk if I had to. Its very hard as a horses attention span is not much more than 10 minutes at that age.
My ideal age is 3 rising 4, or around 4 years old. They are often ready to break then and their brains are like sponges. I have an old book that says "Never hot up a 4 year old". This is true... never put them in a position they can get upset or stressed. You will pay for it.
The oldest I backed was 12 years old. It was a section b. I feel this was too old and though is was ok ,i would never trust him with children entirely.
So, i have broken in yearling thoroughbreds, pure IDs, lots of connemaras at the moment, sport horses, and everything in between. As well as the roughly 50 I have broken, I have restarted around 20? That is "more" fun!

 

[ester]

It's really interesting reading what everyone does/has done.

 

[paddy555]

I envy you your energy and I can totally see the sense of that.

LOL, I'm trying to avoid getting too old too quickly! It is hilly round here and I do have to admit to tailing the youngster up the hills.

I find they ride as they long rein so if they are brave out front on the long reins they will hack out nicely.

 

[Patterdale]

It's really interesting reading what everyone does/has done.

It really is!

I would usually get them used to tack, then ride and lead LOADS off an older horse, wearing tack. Then get on in the stable a few times, being led round in circles. Then ride out in walk ride and lead, gradually going further, trotting, cantering and unclipping the lead. Then riding further from the other horse/going in front, then going out alone.

Where I am now the hacking isn't great so I can't do this. So I've been lunging and doing it the more traditional way..! He's now happy in all tack walk trot and canter and I've been on him in the stable a few times. Going through a bit of a nappy stage on the lunge which we're working through (don't blame him though, it's ****** dull), and then I'll get on in the school and be led about.

Really interesting to see how differently everyone does it!