Backing frustration, help please

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Marilyn

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I'm currently backing my youngster and although we have made progress we seem to have hit a new stumbling block. He lunges beautifully in all three paces, long reins like an angel, is happy being tacked up and his happy walking along with someone leaning over him. He is very aware of what is going on when someone is leaning over him and has his ears rotated backwards to hear what is going on. ANYWAY, he has been sat on and was doing well until a couple of weeks ago when he scooted off and his rider fell off...quite a nasty fall because the ground was so hard. SO, we gace the horse a week off because he was riderless, then started his lunging and long reining, today, we lunged leaned over OK ( a little jumpy I suppose but fine), rider got on, he reared up. I am guessing that this because we pushed him too far and although he has been ridden before, he needs his confidence reseting after his rider fell off so we need to go back to a lo more leaning over. So, i am frustrated and wondering what i am doing wrong. I have backed horses before but this one is challenging me...any ideas on what i am doing wrong?
 
Not sure you're doing anything wrong. You've just unfortunately taken a massive step backwards due to the rider falling off.

So you're going to have to go through the whole leaning over thing again until the horse is totally relaxed. Then the next rider will need to be more aware of what the horse may do - and remember not to sit bolt upright. Keep their head low until the horse is happy then gradually start sitting up straight.

Back to square one really......
 
Thanks for your advice...i think i've made a foolish mistake forgetting that although the rider was shaken up by the fall...the horse was shaken up by it too as he's a sensitive beastie really. I think i need to not get frustrated by the length of time i is taking to back him and not look at other people and their experiences and use that as my own goals too...he's a very quirky horse and will be brilliant...but he is a quirky boy. Thanks for your help, feeling better already...you just feel such a pratt.
 
I think the rider problem at such an early stage is pretty catastophic for any horse. And remember, the last memory the horse has of being ridden is a very upsetting one. So you've got to re-build that trust.

Good luck with the new jockey.
 
if it is intractable after you follow the above and starts to get a bit dodgy risk wise, you could then try the 'dummy' rider (like a guy fawkes guy) very firmly strapped on, so that he will learn rearing etc doesnt have any effect and gets used to it being there, the shadow and the view of the rider up there...and works through it...

good luck, I am sure it will come good, slowly and gently back a few paces will pay dividends
 
I'm sure things will come round. One thing I've found that helps is doing everything you can to get yourself higher than the horse - so grooming, groom on a large box, so he gets used to seeing you as high as if you were a rider, stand on the mounting block and mess about with him, without getting any weight on him. Then you can reintroduce the weight without him getting stressed about the height. Just an idea, hope it helps. Good luck, setbacks are just that, they aren't forever.
 
Marilyn, you are not alone.i bought a supposedly untouched 17hh IDx gelding last November by December i was longreining him in full tack and leaning over him, it then took until End of April to be able to get on. i rode him without a problem 3 times but he went balistic on the fourth attempt when i was only leaning over him, it is now 1 step forward and two back constantly. he has become sensitive to the girth, we have had all the vet dentist and back man checks, but it just comes down to confidence. i went back to putting the elastic surcingle on in the field every day and last week got back to longreining him in a saddle, thought everything was going well and decided to make a dummy but yesterday before he has even seen the dummy he freaked having his girth done up, so today it was back a step again. i have taken the de sensitising route with a carrier bag on a cane rubbing him all over and letting him see it above him an over his back. Today i introduced him to the dummy (no tack on, loose in the school) i just had it sat in a chair in the middle of the school and let him investigate it then got so the dummy could stroke him, it is so fustrating when you are trying so hard but you have got to work at his speed. don't listen to anyone telling you he should be doen by now, you know your horse, listen to him to tell you when to move on and when to step back and think again.
 
when i break horses i do the following.. as i find a lot of reaction will come from a rider being higher than their eyelevel and the feel of the riders legs.

i do the normal leaning across. ( this is all bare back then repeated with saddle.)

then i will do the laying across at a stand.

then.. fully on but without sitting up but getting straight off the other side

then sit up a little. repeating the above.

then sit up more reapeating the getting straight off,. until rider is sitting for a few seconds then dismounting,.

then id repeat the above, but with a few steps of walk before rider is off.

then i would start again but with a saddle.

i cant stress enough how important it is to have a good jockey that can vault, and get off quick if needed, and also every stage must be done on both sides a few times before moving on.

what i find with this method, is although it does take a long time.. id say around 2-3 weeks. (i will with a nervous horse do each step 2-3 times in a day) what you end up with is a steady horse, that is also well balanced, you dont get on and feel the wobble that you often feel in a baby.
 
Backing a horse is potentially THE most terrifying thing we've done to it so far! Every ounce of instinct tells him that something/anything on his back is a predator - and it's escape or die!!

If a horse has been very thoroughly handled as a foal, it's usually much easier - but even the best handled youngsters find the rider on the back is a step too far! We find that leading these horses is NOT a practical option.

My youngster, Charlie - subject of another thread - was a classic example. He'd been very well handled since birth, was very laidback, and coped fine with saddle and rider laying over the saddle (I figure he could see rider's head - so that was ok.) When rider's head disappeared from his rear view mirror, he panicked. I hit the ground first (I was leading) followed fairly quickly by the rider.

With some of these horses, we send them straight out on the lunge - rider hanging onto neckstrap. The theory (and it works) is that if they can run relatively freely, they don't buck! We didn't try this with charlie as he's so big chances are I wouldn't have been able to hang on and rider would be stuck on top with lunge line trailing!

So rider went across the saddle, and steered him on a small circle. Then he went up into the saddle, but stayed leaning well forward, and steered him on a small circle (all in walk.) That worked - and we quietly progressed from there with no more bucking or panics.

When it goes wrong, giving the horse time off is ALWAYS a mistake (although if the rider is hurt it's inevitable). We just go back a step and proceed from there.

Charlie went from bucking his rider off and putting me on the floor - to this - in just under 4 weeks.

Charlie-trot-3.jpg
 
Charlie looks lovely. I know giving him time off was a mistake but my hands were tied really...he's so good lunging and long reining and i didn't want him to get bored...oh dear. It's good to read about your horse's success and i do feel much more confident after all your comments...thank you all very much.
 
My 4yr old is currently being backed and was worked with a dummy before a rider as she had real issues with accepting it! Perseverance is key. She is now being ridden (but still led ATM) - it has taken us 8 weeks now to get to this point. Hopefully she'll be off the lead shortly.

Good luck with your boy
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a lot of reaction will come from a rider being higher than their eyelevel

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That is definitely the point. Spending time getting your youngster used to you being above his eye level is the key. I would try to stand upright on a fence and have someone hold him along the fence so that you are standing just above his withers. If there is any sign of him being worried or trying to evade the situation by trying to go forward or sideways, then you must work at him accepting you there. When he accepts you standing on the fence and stroking him from above and behind his line of vision, then you stand half a chance of him accepting a rider sitting up on his back.

My advice is don't rush, take your time. Some trainers think a horse cannot be 100% until you have repeated a new lesson 30 times perfectly, without hiccups. If the horse does the right thing 20 times, then throws a wobbly, then you must start again until you get your 30 perfect repetitions. I have to say that since I have adopted that method, I have had no step backs!

Once you have been able to stand on the fence and move your arms and body around over his back with no reactions at all, then a dummy is a good next step. But the dummy has to be 100% secure and it cannot be allowed to slip or collapse to one side - Monty Roberts has a good one & description of how to make it on his website: http://www.montyroberts.com/ju_ask_monty_1107.html

Good luck
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You could try being as thorough as many NH style trainers. They throw ropes over the horse's back with energy, and around the legs, and over the backside, and get the horse to accept the rope around the rump and yield from it. Then, bareback, they belly over, slide off the other side, get back on, kneel on the horse (facing over, not the ears), from the ground run their arms over the tail and down to the ground, get on the horse, lay straight along the back, slide off over the bum, wave hats around in the air, and eventually belly over, lie along the horse, and slide into a sitting position.
I know people will think that is daft, but these people very seldom have problems with a horse whose rider becomes unseated, and the horse is much less reactive and less likely to run forward.
I know this works really well, so far I've backed 5 horses this way, and by the time you get on they should be pretty solid.
Then, you add the saddle and bridle.
 
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