Backing my 4 yr old

tinkandlily

tinkandlily

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Hi all, i need some help, i have a 4 yr old tb mare who i have had for about a year, she came to me a bag of bones, and very skitish from a supposed racehorse trainer, she had a slight club foot,( but that has now been rectified) so the trainer didn't really bother doing anything with her, so i have had to re-train her, she is still quite nervous but making progress.
I am in the process of backing her, and so far she's had all the tack on and lunging well, she will let me sit on her, but as soon as she takes a step and feels my weight properly she starts bucking ( even when i lean over her) She has bucked me off every time, which scares her, then she won't let me get back on, and gets very worried to the point of shaking, so i get her back to the point of her letting me lean over, and her relaxing, i like to end on a good note
I haven't managed to get back on after she has thrown me, either shes to worried or i am too sore.
I am thinking of tying down a sack of carotts onto the saddle so she can get used to the weight, and have a buck and fart if she wants without hurting me, i can't stay in the saddle long enough for her to realise it's ok,( she bucks like a bronco) and i don't want her to think that if she throws me, then she won't have to work, any ideas?. Thanks in advance
 
My youngster did the same just a couple of times. Have u tried getting someone on who can sit the bucks? Or if she puts her head down to buck, if you raise both arms with reins held normally right up in the air it stops her doing massive bucks.
Have u checked her back and saddle?
I think if I knew her back and saddle were clear I would go back and do lots of long reining and lunging with saddle on and stirrups down even 3 times a day for 5 mins and at the end each time lean over both sides.
It sounds like she is getting frightened by u falling off which makes her buck again each time maybe anticipating u coming off. Hope this helps :)
 
once you have checked to make sure no physical reason i would get a professional in to do it or send her away.

each time you fall off, her confidence (and i suspect yours!) gets dented and she will get more and more tense each time you try to get on.
 
Thanks, shes had all the checks done, to rule that out. No one on my yard can ride her, they don't really ride their own, i can normaly stay on a bucking horse, but she twists and turns in the air, and it's extremly hard to stay on. at the min i stand on a bucket while she's in her stable having her tea, and leaning on her and shes fine, its just when i get on the problems start.
 
I agree with Millitiger and would want to get all the physical things checked - back, teeth and saddle fit and it might be worth considering gastric ulcers too.

Unfortunately each time you fall off her you will reinforce the behaviour. I would want to send her not only to a trainer that can get on and stay on, but one that will not hit her. To me she sounds like a remedial horse rather than a starting horse as her behaviour is so well rehearsed now. You don't want to help her to perfect it!!
 
agree with milltiger...just get a professional to do it. i did the beginning work of backing my youngster myself, was fine walking around with me on him, being led, as soon as i got put out on the lunge on him (i.e. nobody holding his head) he would turn himself inside out. like you i can normally sit bucks but i couldn't stay on this no matter how hard i tried. i fell off him 4 times in a row and decided that it was ridiculous. i sent him away for 10 days, it cost me about £300 to get someone else to be the test pilot. he came back still a bit quirky to get on and he did deck me a few more times but it was at a stage that my experience could deal with. i have no doubt if i'd sent him away for longer he would have been better again. it turns out my horse is cold backed- he's still very tense when you get on him now (as a 5 year old) and so as a just turned 4 year old he was freaking out about what was happening- now he knows he's not supposed to buck me off so he doesn't...but he still feels like he could if i wasn't careful. sometimes it takes more confidence to admit you need help than to struggle on alone
 
To be blunt then I would put her out in the field then until you can afford it- or look at getting someone who may travel to you to work with her which could be cheaper?
 
tinkandlily said:
Thanks, for your replies, sending her away isnt an option. Shes a terrible loader and honestly can't afford it just yet.
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agree with milltiger- turn her away then and save up some money to send her away. i know its really hard re. money at the minute but you are more likely to have a bigger problem on your hands if your persist in this way...which will cost you a lot more to fix in the long run... :(
 
Perhaps I've been very lucky with the horses I've backed as I've never had any object but doesn't sound right. As long as you've had everything checked (back, saddle etc. - I'd even get the saddle checked by a different saddler as Ive just found out my saddle which I had professionally fitted years ago has NEVER fitted!).

I would probably go down the strapping something heavy onto the saddle (as long as its safe!!) and then putting her on the lunge or loose schooling (if you have the facilities), so when she bucks she learns nothing will happen. Is she ok when lunging in just a saddle? I'd also make sure she's fine with flappy things (I'd pass tarpolin and plastic bags over her etc. in case she's spooking at seeing you behind/on top of her rather than the weight).
 
Is there not anyone who can come to you, there are quite a few peole who back and school horses and are freelance, bloody loads in Wales!
As for putting something weighted on her back, sand bags work well, they sit hell of a lot better than carrots... should be able to get some free from your council...just dont say its for the horse :)
 
At where I work we back a lot of horses. We have 'Willy' who gets on them first. He is a sack of sand, with the sack tied on the top to look like a head, stump arms, and 'legs' which also have little sand bags on them. We fix him on with a roller over a saddle, he wears like a belt round his middle with clips that clip on to the roller and piece of string that ties underneath the horse to some rings attached where his feet would be, and then tied onto the stirrups.
Once Willy is tied on securely (in the lunge pen) the horse is let off. Recently we had two horses, one had no reaction to Willy and was fine to back, another pony had a reaction. In fact I never knew anything could buck like it! I backed the pony after a few sessions with Willy. He was fine though about a week after backing he had a good buck with me on, though I sat it, keep your upper body back, hands up to lift the head. As soon as he stopped broncing I made him go fowards again, in trot and canter, and that was that!
 
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You need to get help in. Every time she bucks you off she's taking bigger and bigger steps towards an unridable 'problem' horse.

She's not learning that if she bucks you off she does't have to do any work - she's learning that if she becomes frightened at the sensation of someone siting on her whilst she moves, if she bucks it goes away. She's not being naughty, she's frightened. And that someone falling off is extra specially frightning.

she is still quite nervous but making progress
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That to me suggests she's not ready to ride yet - if she's not happy with you on the ground then she's not ready for you to sit on her.

I have a horse with a very simialar temperament (nervous) and he so easily could have been ruined too, so I spend a LONG time working up to riding him, spending literally MONTHS working on his nervousness before getting on. He never felt the need to buck me off.

I would be going back to basics and doing much more ground work, and the type of desenstising shown in the Micheal Peace video's someone above posted.

You need to admit defeat and get some help before you ruin her further.
 
Hi, we use teddy bears lol. they are all different heights and we start with a small one and work our way up. if she is ok for you to sit on then she might be frightened of having a height above her head? Don't give up!!
 
Agree with others, nervous horses (mine is one so I sympathise!) are very easy to ruin. Have you read Richard Maxwell's book 'Train your young horse'? It is fantastic and talks you through all the basic stages that should be covered prior to backing. I would highly recommend getting hold of a copy and playing around with all the ground work exercises in the book until you can afford to send her away - or you might find that a suitable length break will help her to 'forget' this learned pattern of behaviour. If you're lucky all the desentising work might help with trailer loading too. I think with horses like this the slower you go, the sooner you'll get there! :)
 
MagicMelon said:
Perhaps I've been very lucky with the horses I've backed as I've never had any object but doesn't sound right. As long as you've had everything checked (back, saddle etc. - I'd even get the saddle checked by a different saddler as Ive just found out my saddle which I had professionally fitted years ago has NEVER fitted!).

I would probably go down the strapping something heavy onto the saddle (as long as its safe!!) and then putting her on the lunge or loose schooling (if you have the facilities), so when she bucks she learns nothing will happen. Is she ok when lunging in just a saddle? I'd also make sure she's fine with flappy things (I'd pass tarpolin and plastic bags over her etc. in case she's spooking at seeing you behind/on top of her rather than the weight).
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She's ok with everything once she shown thats its safe, she's been working well under saddle for a while. I have been swinging the lungline over her and a plastic bag on a stick, which after a small panic, she was fine with.
She's definatly worried about the weight, i have been grooming her her whilst, standing on buckets and leaning over, which she's fine with, i have also sat on her with no problems, its just when she's asked to move forward, that she starts playing up, she twists and turns, which make it very hard to stay on, and then she gets into a tizzy.
 
You need to teach her how to react correctly when something frightens her - to stop and THINK about it and that making a fuss and having a tantrum over it won't make it any better. My very similar horse has learnt that if he just tolerates whatever it is, it stops. A huge improvement on 'run about like a headless chicken, screaming and if that doesn't work, attack it'. ;)
 
Kallibear said:
You need to teach her how to react correctly when something frightens her - to stop and THINK about it and that making a fuss and having a tantrum over it won't make it any better. My very similar horse has learnt that if he just tolerates whatever it is, it stops. A huge improvement on 'run about like a headless chicken, screaming and if that doesn't work, attack it'. ;)
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Thats why i am thinking of strapping on the carrots, or sand bags if i can get some, so she can have her worry, then once she realises she can't get it off, she can stop and think.
 
No, you need to change the way she reacts to things. All things. Otherwise everything you come across something new and 'scary' you'll be back to square. The point is not to stop her being able to chuck the 'rider' off (carrots in this case) but training her not to even start in the beginning.
 
Kallibear said:
No, you need to change the way she reacts to things. All things. Otherwise everything you come across something new and 'scary' you'll be back to square. The point is not to stop her being able to chuck the 'rider' off (carrots in this case) but training her not to even start in the beginning.
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How can it do that, she has always been nervy, and i have been working with her loads, introducing her to lot's of things, so when i do ride her out she will have already seen it, which she's doing well with. If i can change how she reacts then great, but i don't know what more i can do, expept continue working with spooky things. Once we have gotten over the bucking she will be fine, thats what she like, once she's been shown its ok, then she excepts it.
 
It's about how you react when she says 'no!' and reacts to things. Have a look at Micheal Peaces video as he has a similar over-reactive horse.

Basically you keep doing whatever you're doing (fly spray, brushing the face, flipping ropes at her etc) in the exact same patient and quiet manners until she stops freaking them rewards verbally and continue as before.
 
If she's still behaving like that then she's not ready to be ridden yet! You need to get the rest of the groundwork, and her reaction to scary things, sorted long before you think of getting into the saddle!

As you're not sure how, send her to someone who knows what they're doing! It will cost you a couple fo hundred quid to have it done properly but it's well worth it not to have a ruined horse.
 
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