Bad behaviour or another problem?

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thespanishmane

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My Spanish chap has never been easy. He has always hacks reasonably well, on his own, with another or a lot of others. I have posted on here before about him becoming dominant, but this takes the biscuit!

Just lately he has become more and more nappy, either in the arena or out. His favourite evasion is to go backwards, and will ignore any forward aids from a squeeze to a wallop! He will then attempt to rear or spin. This never works as I turn him quickly when he starts to up, or keep him circling when he spins. His latest trick has developed into a me frightener as he will stop dead, go like a lump of concrete, then he will rear, not very high but continually strike out and slap the ground with both feet waving, and then go backwards rapidly. I must admit to not having sat on this trick before, as I have lost trust in him not to do something seriously stupid. I have to say he NEVER gets away with it and he continues. By this time he is extremely hot to any aid & takes them to extremes. A half halt becomes a dead stop at any pace and any leg means leap forward. He does this at any time, in company or not & isn't remotely bothered what is going on around him!

I am just so glad to get off when I get back, whether from schooling or hacking as I am worn out with his antics.

He has had a back check, his teeth have Ben done, his saddle fits beautifully!

I am wondering if he is throwing down the gauntlet again as I have never come across the striking out with both feet when being ridden!

HELP!
 
Get back and saddle done by a second opinion. Our tb reared and strikes out with front legs turnt out his saddle was too long and pinching him when we got a second opinion.

Also get an instructor etc to have a ride and see what they think.
 
It might be worth having an instructor you trust have a look. Rearing and striking out at the ground sounds like temper. But running backward is more classic of a pain related evasion. 2nd opinions on back and tack wouldn't hurt either.

Could there be an issue with front boots rubbing or a fly bite there or something? Or the same at the girth area? Withers are the other possibility that comes to mind - you can get a very deep infection there which takes ages to show but the early stages provoke some quite odd behaviour changes.

It's going to be a process of elimination I'm afraid!
 
Have eliminated as much as possible- no boots, no bandages, no noseband, comfort headpiece and tried every bit known to man! Thinking of trying bitless as well! Have had instructor 2 weeks ago who said to ride him through it!
Well, I have been and it still gets me nowhere! As you can I imagine there are not many souls who want to get on him! My husband occasionally rides him & is not fazed by his antics. I M quite simply getting fed up with it!
 
Yes, he is a gelding. He was gelded at five and a half before being imported from Spain. He has a huge neck and rather stallion like presence. If turned out with other geldings he is very dominant and won't be caught. He will chase the others away from me if I try to catch one of the others, so now he is turned out on his own, although there are other horses in the next paddocks!
 
So not a good idea to lead him from another horse then from the sounds of it.
Have you discussed with your vet ? The late gelding may be at the bottom of this.
 
He is on pretty poor very short grass as he is a guts! He has a small mollichaff calmer feed in the morning with magnesium added. He has no sugar whatsoever. I sometimes think he enjoys his life and being ridden just gets in the way. He is no problem to tack up either. He almost puts his own bridle on and pulls no faces with the saddle and girth.
 
My gelding was cut at four and has some stallion traits, but he is as gentle as a lamb so I wouldn't necessarily blame the late gelding. There are many entire stallions being ridden and competed without this reaction.
Apart from the dominant behaviour in the field, does behave in the same way as he does when he is ridden?
I'm afraid I have lost faith in professionals when searching for answers to behavioural problems. It is very rare for a horse to have such an extreme "temper tantrum" unless it is objecting to something pain related. They are "screaming at the top of their voice" because the earlier messages have been ignored.
Some may scoff at this view of what I see, but I am convinced there is something drastically wrong and he's doing his best to tell you, it's up to you to do your utmost to find out what it is.
Many iberian breeds are affected by DSLD/ESPA but most professionals do not recognise the early signs and don't know what they are looking for even if it was suggested. Quite often affected horses behave in this way because it is very painful to carry the weight of a rider. New research has found this disease affects all the body, not just the legs and the fetlocks do not necessarily lower. It's worth taking a look even if only to rule it out.
Check out this information and join the D/E group to research about signs that other owners have listed from observing their diagnosed horses.
http://www.dsldequine.info/
 
Does he rein back when asked? My mare used to be a terrible napper, she backed me up the muck heap, into the cow barn, up verges, down ditches, into electric fences.......there was nothing wrong with her, everything was checked and fine she was just being a wee witch. When I stared to get after her to go forwards she would rear. My instructor told me to sit quiet with soft hands when she started to go back, wait for her to stop then back her up a wee bit then a wee bit more and then a wee bit more. She had tantrums about this too, would rear leap and throw herself sideways but eventually she decided going forward was easier. She hardley ever does it now, she tries it on the odd time but its far less extreme. Might not work for your lad but it helped us :) x
 
Has a good equine vet seen the bad behaviour ?
That's what i would do idnhave not already nothing like the vet seeing it to get them on the case.
I suggested the grass thing just because at one point I thought of buying a PRE and researched a bit and the sugar/ grass issues was one of the things that came up.
It could be so many things but horses are supposed to fun if you really are not enjoying it dont be tied to a horse you don't like for ever put a time limit on sorting it out and set to to follow all avenues until you reach that limit and if you are still not enjoying it part with him.
Just my view good luck and I hope you get though it.
 
I really don't think it's the saddle - he has a made to measure Sue Carson which is checked twice a year. It had its Flair altered in July. I just wish I could fathom the slapping the feet on the ground bit, with a bit of pawing/digging going on!
 
I notice your in Suffolk, might be worth talking with someone at pine lodge or Alexandra Downing. They both do classical equitation and deal with Iberians on a regular basis, they might be able to shed some light.

Alex is a very strong confident rider who does travel and might be able to help.
 
wallykissmas said:
I notice your in Suffolk, might be worth talking with someone at pine lodge or Alexandra Downing. They both do classical equitation and deal with Iberians on a regular basis, they might be able to shed some light.

Alex is a very strong confident rider who does travel and might be able to help.
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That's a good route to consider someone experianced with the type who could see the behaviour.
 
wallykissmas said:
I notice your in Suffolk, might be worth talking with someone at pine lodge or Alexandra Downing. They both do classical equitation and deal with Iberians on a regular basis, they might be able to shed some light.

Alex is a very strong confident rider who does travel and might be able to help.
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Excellent suggestion - there are also a few 'Spanish' horse owners on here - so would be worth tracking them down for a 'chat'.

My understanding is that they can be quirky, and need very particular handling and riding.
 
Have you ever just sat there and waited for him to standstill? Mine is a half Luso, and when spooky being out he has been prone to semi rear, spin, and try to run. Any attempt to turn him back the way I want will make him reverse (rapidly!!) and try to go up. The only way I have had success with him doing it is just to wait for him to stand still. Then wait for him to want to move off forwards (he will eventually when he gets bored!) then I make him stand again. Then he gets a pat and we continue.

This worked better than any amount of leg, spinning, shouting, or encouragement forwards with a whip. He still does it sometimes, but is generally quick to get over it, I've had him too long for it to bother me, other than being annoyed at him!
 
Has a vet examined him? I would get a thorough work-up by an experienced horse vet (get him to check the back in particular, Iknow a lot of people who have had problems with Flair). If all is well then get an experienced instructor to assess him and then the two of you as a partnership and recommend a solution, i.e. either teach the two of you, or re-school the horse with the intention of either selling or re-establishing the partnership with you.
 
How long have you had him?

The Spanish mare I used to ride was very testing and would go through phases of seeing whether you were worth trusting :rolleyes:

Took about 3 months for her not to try and boot me of every time I sat on her (not pain related as owner could ride her perfectly, simply any new rider related... riding instructors won't sit on her as deemed too dangerous yet goes like a dream when there is trust involved). Then it clicked and we were great. Once in a blue moon, she'd then try me out and we'd have a battle of a ride then fine again. Only a novice could sit on her first time without hitting the deck. She was notably worse when given time off.

I couldn't walk into a school without broncing for a couple of months months and an open field took about 9 (to be fair I avoided both until she was 100% out hacking!). It was a new environment with me on board and she wanted to see if I was worth listening too.

She was a hell of a character but well worth the time to win her over and prove that whatever she threw at you, you'd stick it out and not give up on her. She also did a very good sit down and reverse at break neck speed.

I'm not saying not to check the pain routes though. Just that from my experience they have a whole heap of quirks!

Pan
 
thespanishmane said:
He is on pretty poor very short grass as he is a guts! He has a small mollichaff calmer feed in the morning with magnesium added. He has no sugar whatsoever. I sometimes think he enjoys his life and being ridden just gets in the way. He is no problem to tack up either. He almost puts his own bridle on and pulls no faces with the saddle and girth.
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The clue is in the name. Mollichaff is MOLLassed CHAFF!! It is full of sugar and I know from experience it drives some horses beyond all reasoning. Try Top Chop Lite, that's completely sugar freee.
 
My horse was doing this and he only stopped when I moved yards away from the mare he was very attached to. It stopped straight away and he's never done it since, even after I moved back home and put him back with the same mare a year later.
 
I have a Spanish horse - he was imported in 2010.

For the first 8 months he was fine - he hacked alone or with others, good in the school, etc, although, like you, I can't have him in the same field as other horses. Then one day he simply wouldn't leave the yard. He just kept going at a high stepping jog trot sideways at speed going every way but the way I wanted him to go. We went up banks, into open ditches, into barbed wire fences, brambles, trees.. perilously close to farm machinery and open drains, etc, etc.

One particularly bad day I battled for 2.5 hours to get him to leave the yard. I tried everything... at one point he ran with me into a stable which had a bungee across the door and I ended up right up his neck looking through his ears... I never did get him to leave the yard that day, my neighbour even tried leading us in hand... he nearly floored her! I was absolutely worn out with the effort. I had the vet check his hormone levels - they were OK, had his tack, back, teeth all checked - they were fine...

I kept trying for about a month or so and realised that it wasn't going to be long before we got seriously hurt. I asked the vet for advice and he recommended a couple of people.

I contacted Lisa Bray and she rode him out every day for 4 consecutive days (the first time with her he took her sideways into trees, etc) but each day he got better - he then had a day off and then we went out together - she rode my husband's horse. I was convinced he'd play up with me on board but to my surprise he was fine.

I would do as others have suggested and get someone out to deal with the behaviour before you get hurt.

I will have owned by boy 2 years next month and he's brilliant. He is not and never will be an 'easy' horse, but he's fun and a real character. I still do have the occasional 'issue' with him but nothing as bad as the napping.

Wishing you good luck!!!
 
thespanishmane said:
I really don't think it's the saddle - he has a made to measure Sue Carson which is checked twice a year. It had its Flair altered in July. I just wish I could fathom the slapping the feet on the ground bit, with a bit of pawing/digging going on!
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Hmm... personally Id definately get a second opinion on the saddle. I had a saddle fitted by a qualified person to my current horse and rode him in it for some time, until he started misbehaving when ridden which was totally out of character (he has the nicest manners you can imagine!), he started to nap and then began rearing. I got a different saddler out and she was shocked at his saddle, saying it would never have fitted in the first place (even if he had changed shape) as it was too long in the seat for a start. He's obviously been so good to put up with it for a while but then got fed up! I ended up having to get a WOW made up for him and immediately his behaviour went back to normal again! Ive also had a recent run in with a saddler who badly fitted a saddle to a youngster I was backing... ended up with me being thrown off it in a big way...!! So definately get a different saddler out, even two if you have to! BTW, mine is an Iberian half bred ;) They're not the easiest to fit saddles to Ive heard.
 
wallykissmas said:
I notice your in Suffolk, might be worth talking with someone at pine lodge or Alexandra Downing. They both do classical equitation and deal with Iberians on a regular basis, they might be able to shed some light.

Alex is a very strong confident rider who does travel and might be able to help.
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Thanks to all who suggested Alex. I contacted her today & she is coming to see us on the 18th. Having explained all she feels it may be behavioural. It will be interesting to see as she is quite happy to ride him.
 
thespanishmane said:
Thanks to all who suggested Alex. I contacted her today & she is coming to see us on the 18th. Having explained all she feels it may be behavioural. It will be interesting to see as she is quite happy to ride him.
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Alex is great with difficult horses regardless of their breed !! And gives you no end of confidence. Do let us know how you get on :)
 
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