Bad day arena eventing!

AbFab

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Oh really? Are they a flatter tree than the Maxam ones? I had a cheapy one of those a few years ago and it was too narrow for her. Saying that though, those ones are ridiculously cheap! Will have a look at the T8s.
 

EveningStar

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Definitely definitely get another saddle, its amazing the difference a well fitting saddle can do for your position.
Then do two-point until your legs fall off :p

Hope you're feeling better soon and give Saf a big hug from me, she's doing so well
 

Lolo

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Those dressage photos are gorgeous, she looks like she's really holding herself and working nicely now :)

Definitely need a not-dressage saddle to jump in if you can afford it!

And please look after yourself. I had very mild concussion two weeks ago and it took several days to feel really back with it- I kept completely losing focus and (embarrassingly!) getting lost around campus!
 

Bantry

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This thread has moved to a happy place now (shopping :)) but since there's another thread on the board re magical canter I wanted to make a point about Saffy's canter in the video. You've been told by others that you don't have enough canter and on the Magical Canter thread, Tarrsteps asks - do you know what that means for you?

I've answered there as to what it means to me but in relation to your video my first thoughts were "not enough canter". To further explain what I mean by that... here goes! The speed of you canter is probably fine and the fences aren't enormous so no need to get too technical. You can see that you're using your legs as you ride around the course, the problem is they're not producing a reaction and not having any effect. When you get to the fence Saffy decides to keep going and jump or the revs drop off as she has a look and does a trot stride in front of the fence. This basically means the horse is jumping the course the way she wants to. A couple of times she also drops back to a trot, which means even though you had set off in a canter she wasn't "on your leg aid" or "in front of your leg" or however you describe that feeling. Its the feeling where you put them into a canter, the way you put a car in 3rd gear and the horse should stay there cantering forward without you having to kick on every second stride. If you did have that canter set up whereby she was cantering and you didn't have to kick to keep it going, she could still start to fade in front of the fence or as I describe it the revs drop off. However, by having a good canter to start with now when you get that feeling all you should need is one hard squeeze to prevent her fading and thus keeping your optimal canter to the point of take off. If you get all that right you should then land in the same rhythm and continue on the next fence.

Perhaps think of it more like dressage (I'm sure I've seen a video of her doing a very obedient test). If you knew you had a trot canter transition to make at C you'd be prepared to execute it there and you wouldn't start asking at B and hope to be cantering by E! You need the same accuracy and obedience in a jumping arena. Hope you're not too sore, the thoughts of saddle shopping will hopefully cheer you up!
 

AbFab

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Thank you all :)

Lolo - She's lovely on the flat at the moment. A lot more willing and, as ever, tries her little heart out. We actually did a test on Saturday and came 4th out of 15 with the comment "Super cob!". It's so nice when she gets the recognition she deserves from judges, rather than being marked down because she's not a warmblood :) I'm off work today. Hoping to go back in tomorrow but it's a 30 mile drive, all motorway, so I'm a bit unsure about that at the moment. I won't risk anything though, will see how I feel.

Bantry - I absolutely agree. Her canter now (not yesterday, but in general) is 100x better than it was. She used to fall back to trot before every fence. I think perhaps a lot of it is in my head. I worry that, because she'll stop if given the chance, if I fire her at a fence and she stops I'll go flying. I know that logically that is stupid, because if I fire her at a fence she doesn't even think about stopping. It's just always lurking in my mind. I don't mean to sound melodramatic when I say I think I've ruined her. My nerves and confidence issues have rubbed off on her over the years and now I have a horse who loves jumping but needs constant reassurance.

I have a man come ride her once a fortnight. He jumps her and fires her around. She looks fantastic with him and she jumps all sorts! This is the canter he has with her. Some people have thought it is too fast, I'm not so sure. I don't know if I'd have the confidence to do it with her, but if it's the canter I need then I'll just have to get used to it.
(Granted she fluffed her striding to the last in this but she went)

http://youtu.be/dkm13EbB4Kg

This is her jumping at home with me a couple of weeks ago. In comparison, it is very sedate. She felt good when she got into her stride though and was taking me towards fences without the revs dropping off. Once she is confident over a fence she'll jump it all day long with minimal input from me. It's the new fences she worries about.

http://youtu.be/OgxyldZb5SM

This is the clear round we did last month. I can see the difference in her canter coming up to fences she doesn't mind compared to ones she hesitates at. I knew as soon as I saw this video that I only started riding at fences way too late, I needed to solve the canter problems way before a fence. 3 strides before it is not good enough.

http://youtu.be/zU017b3wMKM
 

Lolo

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How is she in open spaces with friends? I'd be so tempted to ask a friend on a very sensible horse to go XC schooling with me and find a venue with lots of small fences, and then hold onto the neckstrap and follow your friend round. I was really really nervous about jumping, and this resulted in me completely killing the canter to make myself feel safer. Only it made everything harder. I did lots of pairs XC with my mad and very confident little sister where I could get used to the extra speed.

It took ages, and when I got nervous it was so hard to not stomp all the 'oomph' out. But now I have the opposite problem- when I'm nervous I kick like anything and go far too fast!!
 

AbFab

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That's a good idea! She's very sensible in open spaces and we have a big XC course on our yard with plenty of smaller options. There are lots of people with pocket rocket jumping ponies too so once the fields have dried up I'll venture up there with someone :)
 

Bantry

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Thank you all :)

I have a man come ride her once a fortnight. He jumps her and fires her around. She looks fantastic with him and she jumps all sorts! This is the canter he has with her. Some people have thought it is too fast, I'm not so sure. I don't know if I'd have the confidence to do it with her, but if it's the canter I need then I'll just have to get used to it.
(Granted she fluffed her striding to the last in this but she went)

http://youtu.be/dkm13EbB4Kg

This is her jumping at home with me a couple of weeks ago. In comparison, it is very sedate. She felt good when she got into her stride though and was taking me towards fences without the revs dropping off. Once she is confident over a fence she'll jump it all day long with minimal input from me. It's the new fences she worries about.

http://youtu.be/OgxyldZb5SM

This is the clear round we did last month. I can see the difference in her canter coming up to fences she doesn't mind compared to ones she hesitates at. I knew as soon as I saw this video that I only started riding at fences way too late, I needed to solve the canter problems way before a fence. 3 strides before it is not good enough.

http://youtu.be/zU017b3wMKM


You haven't ruined her, don't even go there. The man has the right canter. Its engaged, its forward and it looks like he's doing very little. He's not firing, in fact between the first and second fence he actually does a half halt to rebalance her. The momentum he has makes jumping an easier option than stopping. If you're not sure this is true, look at how you're fall occured at the weekend - jumping from a standstill with no forward impulsion.

In your second video, you don't have as much impulsion as the man in the first but it's still miles better than what you do at a show (only judging by the videos you've posted). That sort of canter is probably ok at home with familiar fences in a familiar arena but at show where she backs off you need to be replicating the man's canter.

In your third video you can see your problems at the first fence. You come around the corner, give a kick and instead of her going forward she actually drops back to a trot meaning there is no reaction to your aids.

I wonder is the reaction in front of the fences that she's unsure something that she's picking up from you? A good experiment might be to build a fence you think she'd hesistate at. Ask the man who rides her to jump 4 fences in a row with the scary fence as the last fence. See what happens, does she hesitate, does he need to push her on, does the impulsion they already have carry them over it? Ask him afterwards did she feel different in front of the last fence. Video it and see can you see a difference. I think from some of your other posts she's a very strong character (I'm remembering the contact journey) but she's also willing to learn and change. Just see this as another part of your journey, it absolutely can get better and I'm sure she'd be highly insulted if she heard you describe her as ruined! :)
 

Mince Pie

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How is she in open spaces with friends? I'd be so tempted to ask a friend on a very sensible horse to go XC schooling with me and find a venue with lots of small fences, and then hold onto the neckstrap and follow your friend round. I was really really nervous about jumping, and this resulted in me completely killing the canter to make myself feel safer. Only it made everything harder. I did lots of pairs XC with my mad and very confident little sister where I could get used to the extra speed.

It took ages, and when I got nervous it was so hard to not stomp all the 'oomph' out. But now I have the opposite problem- when I'm nervous I kick like anything and go far too fast!!

You haven't ruined her, don't even go there. The man has the right canter. Its engaged, its forward and it looks like he's doing very little. He's not firing, in fact between the first and second fence he actually does a half halt to rebalance her. The momentum he has makes jumping an easier option than stopping. If you're not sure this is true, look at how you're fall occured at the weekend - jumping from a standstill with no forward impulsion.

In your second video, you don't have as much impulsion as the man in the first but it's still miles better than what you do at a show (only judging by the videos you've posted). That sort of canter is probably ok at home with familiar fences in a familiar arena but at show where she backs off you need to be replicating the man's canter.

In your third video you can see your problems at the first fence. You come around the corner, give a kick and instead of her going forward she actually drops back to a trot meaning there is no reaction to your aids.

I wonder is the reaction in front of the fences that she's unsure something that she's picking up from you? A good experiment might be to build a fence you think she'd hesistate at. Ask the man who rides her to jump 4 fences in a row with the scary fence as the last fence. See what happens, does she hesitate, does he need to push her on, does the impulsion they already have carry them over it? Ask him afterwards did she feel different in front of the last fence. Video it and see can you see a difference. I think from some of your other posts she's a very strong character (I'm remembering the contact journey) but she's also willing to learn and change. Just see this as another part of your journey, it absolutely can get better and I'm sure she'd be highly insulted if she heard you describe her as ruined! :)

2 very good posts OP :)
 

TarrSteps

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I think Bantry has given you some very good advice, in addition to the saddle discussion earlier. In the video with the other rider she is a bit wild and wooly between 2 and 3 but that looks like a ridability issue and as if she gets a bit green and doesn't know where she's supposed to go. As you can see, even though she gets in a bit of trouble, she can sort herself out and keep coming because she has enough pace and impulsion.
 

Billy the kid

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I was just annoyed I didn't get to do the fun rustic jumps! She's fine with those :)

Yes I know what you mean about dropping her. I think it's a result of me thinking 'will she stop?' and just preparing myself for that. Not helpful at all! I need to get into the habit of riding her to the other side of the fence.

I know what you mean there, sometimes i find it very hard to kick on if im thinking he is going to stop, but you really have too! get yourself into two point jumping position, heels firmly down and kick on! if she stops or jumps you will go with her in that position.

Very well done on giving it ago though! Loads of respect for those that try!
 

AbFab

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Thank you all - some absolutely fantastic advice and comments.

Now I know the canter that he has is the canter that I need, I will endeavour to get it. I need to get used to doing things fast. It's not the speed I'm scared of, I know she will stop whenever I decide, it's the stopping suddenly from speed I'm concerned about. As I know myself though it is much less likely she will stop if I am actually going at speed. So I just need to suck it up and get on with it.

Bantry - That's a good idea about the line of fences. He's coming tomorrow so I'll do that then. It's funny, when I watch him ride she is completely different. Jumps I expect her to stop at, she doesn't even break stride. This is him taking her over an oxer with a big tree branch underneath it:

http://youtu.be/HuOVWMkU8-c

Coming up to that, I would have been ready for her to stop. In his mind, there was no way she was stopping. Judging by the expression on her face, there was no way she was stopping either. I'm the weak link here! But I intend to get stronger :) the ridiculous thing is, I can get on her after he's jumped her (not immediately, it can be days after) and she'll pull me into a simple x-pole. What do I do? Pull her back. What the hell?! Why do I do that?? Will be having some words with myself next time.

I'm dying to get back on now and get this canter. Not allowed to ride until my neck is better though and waiting for my new hat to arrive (poor old hat got a bit bashed). I'm looking forward to tomorrow though and talking to SJ man about what I need to be doing with her. In my boredom at being off work today I've entered a combined training event in 2 weeks. They have a wonderfully tiny class (all of 40cm!). I was going to do the 60cm but I figured if I do the tiny class I won't have any fear of the fences and I will ride her as if they were a proper height and get her excited about it. We'll get there with our confidence, I hope!

Just found this video from a few years ago when I wasn't scared. That canter is much better in places! Will aim for that and more :)

http://youtu.be/_1ye5DlnRSI
 

9tails

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Transitions will help immensely to get a good canter. Trot to canter for a few strides, back to trot, ask for canter again. Walk to canter gets mine really thinking forward, but you need to get an active walk and really set them up for it. Best after the trot to canter to trot work. Another one is a figure of 8, with trot over X then picking up canter. Again, it gets their brains working. You don't want strung out but you do want active and forward.
 

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You need to remember that you were there competing and be very proud of yourself for that alone!!! If you never have a go and try then you will never improve. :) Keep up the good work and enjoy the painkillers while you have them ;)
P.S. My friend is in the working in on one of you pics :)
 

Lolo

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I'd stick a neckstrap on, as when I get scared I pull too. If there's a neckstrap I can pull on that with no ill effects :)

And also, falling off at speed generally hurts way less than falling off slowly. Speed, you normally will get flung off and hit the ground on your back or bum. Slowly, you go like a javelin head first... Well, in my experience anyway!
 

AbFab

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Transitions will help immensely to get a good canter. Trot to canter for a few strides, back to trot, ask for canter again. Walk to canter gets mine really thinking forward, but you need to get an active walk and really set them up for it. Best after the trot to canter to trot work. Another one is a figure of 8, with trot over X then picking up canter. Again, it gets their brains working. You don't want strung out but you do want active and forward.

That's a good idea. Simple changes tend to perk her up a bit but keep her sitting back. Will give that a go!

You need to remember that you were there competing and be very proud of yourself for that alone!!! If you never have a go and try then you will never improve. :) Keep up the good work and enjoy the painkillers while you have them ;)
P.S. My friend is in the working in on one of you pics :)

Ooh small world! Thank you :) I watched the November event and thought "I want to do one of those". At the time I hadn't jumped in 2yrs and a pole on the floor made my stomach churn! So I suppose we've come a long way since then. We'll get there!

I'd stick a neckstrap on, as when I get scared I pull too. If there's a neckstrap I can pull on that with no ill effects :)

And also, falling off at speed generally hurts way less than falling off slowly. Speed, you normally will get flung off and hit the ground on your back or bum. Slowly, you go like a javelin head first... Well, in my experience anyway!

Hahaha very true! I think I was a lead javelin yesterday though, not graceful in the slightest!
 

TarrSteps

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Re simple changes, for a naturally quiet horse it's important to concentrate on the immediacy of the response, particularly the upwards transitions. She has to canter NOW and go immediately into the canter you want, not get there on the instalment plan. It's connected to what Bantry said about getting the horse in front of your leg and staying there on her own.
 

AbFab

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She has to canter NOW and go immediately into the canter you want, not get there on the instalment plan.

:D That's brilliant!! Haha I think you just described Saffy to a T! I've got to hold my hands up again there I think and take responsibility for that. Too often I let her respond a few seconds after I ask. Not any more! Once she knows the boundaries are there, she respects them. She's a very lovely little soul and always aims to please, but with the minimal amount of effort possible (I wonder where she gets that from..).
 

TarrSteps

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She looks lots of fun - I love horses like her. :)

i think it's easier for horses if you're very black and white. You don't have to be harsh, just consistent and clear.

I think being a rider is like being someone's boss. It's actually more irritating to have someone in charge who never really says "THIS is what I want" or who doesn't prepare you adequately for what they want you to do. I think sometimes we think we are being "nice" to horses by letting things slide but then we go and want things from them that require certain skills and are upset when they don't have those skills in place. (I'd say the same with instruction, too!)
 

stencilface

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Ouch! Hope you are feeling ok today, although you're provably still crazy if you're craft enough to jump in a dressage saddle, respect. ;)

It's really good that you have all the videos of her jumping. I have videos of me jumping when I think I'm going ok and it looks like I'm barely moving anywhere, horse is just merrily bowling along in his own little sedate world. The days when I'm really going for it, pushing on I feel like I'm going really quite fast, then I look at the videos and I can see that actually I just look normal lol

So I'm going to be stealing tips from here when I get cantering again,and jumping too fingers crossed :)
 

AbFab

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Completely agree TarrSteps. I'm not doing either of us any favours by being soft with her. She doesn't ever try and take the mick, she's a pleasure to ride and to be around, I just need to help her by making it very clear what I want from her :) She always wants to please. So many other horses would have stopped at that fence yesterday. I asked her to go so she went the best way she could. It wasn't her fault I'd left her with no choice than to sky rocket!

Ouch! Hope you are feeling ok today, although you're provably still crazy if you're craft enough to jump in a dressage saddle, respect. ;)

It's really good that you have all the videos of her jumping. I have videos of me jumping when I think I'm going ok and it looks like I'm barely moving anywhere, horse is just merrily bowling along in his own little sedate world. The days when I'm really going for it, pushing on I feel like I'm going really quite fast, then I look at the videos and I can see that actually I just look normal lol

So I'm going to be stealing tips from here when I get cantering again,and jumping too fingers crossed :)

:D I think it has knocked some sense into me! Dressage saddle now for sale :) I know what you mean about the videos. Sometimes I feel like I'm flying around and I see the video and we're just ambling along. I need to get a good feel for flying about in a proper canter! Hope you get jumping soon :)
 

Mince Pie

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Keep the dressage and buy a jump saddle as well!

If you work on your lower leg and get it really solidly down (lots of 2 point - if your thighs aren't burning you need to do more!) then even if she does stop from a forwards canter then you should still stay in the plate as she doesn't appear to spin.

PS get used to going fast by taking her out for a gallop on the XC course!
 

AbFab

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At the moment I think we'd just sink out there! We're spoiled rotten though with all-weather gallops 20mins hack from the yard so I'm going to get her out to those again.

I can't afford to keep my dressage saddle unfortunately if I buy a jumping saddle. Getting married in July and buying a house, for some reason saddles aren't high on the list of allowed expenses :) As if by fate a gorgeous xw jumping saddle appeared for sale on my newsfeed on Facebook last night and it's only round the corner. Need to sell my others asap!
 

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Concussion is horrid and hope you okay. I was whoosy for several weeks when I tried to move my head so hope you okay now.

Lots of good advice here.

It is so easy to kill the canter when you feel you are going too fast so if you like me, you have to retrain your brain to the correct canter. I find that putting poles out every 12 feet helpful to get that canter. Once you getting that easy you can make up exercises between sets of poles set at 9 feet and 12 feet to help you shorten and lengthen the canter. That way you can still practice without a gp/jumping saddle

Best of luck!
 

AbFab

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That's a good idea, thanks! I will give that a go once I can get back on board. My head is feeling ok now but neck and back are protesting! It's a bit funny really, never thought I'd get whiplash riding something like Saffy!! :D
 
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